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3 car collision and i was in the middle car

tart29016

The good people here on boards, can I please pick your bring on this. I am not looking for any legal advice but just to get a general feeling of where I stand.

I was involved in a 3 car accident and I was in the middle car.

Here is what happened that day-- I was coming to a set of traffic lights (red) and coming to a full stop. All of a sudden a car from behind hit my car (so fast that my car was written off by the insurance company for the damage caused) and the momentum carried my car and pushed it into the front car.
Garda came and took statements off everyone involved and I was called into the Garda station 2 weeks after the incident to give further statement. The 3rd car’s insurance paid for my car and I thought everything is done and dusted. But no, I got a phone call from the Garda yesterday to inform me that they got witness from that night to indicate that I had hit the front car prior to the 3rd car crashing into my car. I said, no way.. That is absolute lie. I then asked, can you please get CCTV to verify? Garda said, no, there is no CCTV available. I would need to accept a fine of €80 and 2 penalty points for driving without due consideration. In hindsight, the crash would’ve happened within a fraction of a second. How are the witness so sure that I hit the front car 1st and then the 3rd car hit me? This is nonsense from my point of view.

This is really unfair and I am upset in my stomach to be informed of such a decision by the Garda.

I am thinking to contest it in the court but would like to see what you all think before going down that route.

Thanks a million.

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tart29016

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Good for you. Too many people give in too easily.

I think even a law student in their first week studying world be able to argue for doubt that two cars happened to both make the same error at the same time instead of the more likely and obvious third car rear ending the second into the first.

Yeah, I hope it would be that easy when I am in court.

Oh, I also got myself a dashcam (front and back) just in case.

jimmycrackcorm

tart29016 wrote:

-- I've not paid the FCN penalty so currently waiting for a court date. (exciting)

Good for you. Too many people give in too easily.

I think even a law student in their first week studying world be able to argue for doubt that two cars happened to both make the same error at the same time instead of the more likely and obvious third car rear ending the second into the first.

tart29016

seagull wrote: »

If you're hit from behind while you're in gear and braking, there's a very high probability that your foot is going to pop off the clutch. So even if you manage to stop, you're going to be driven into the car, and then hop again. Surely the gardai would be aware of that.

Yeah, surely the gardi should of been aware of that. But yeah, still issued a FCN.

seagull

tart29016 wrote: »

There has been some developments I suppose.

-- I've not paid the FCN penalty so currently waiting for a court date. (exciting)

-- After a number of phone calls and emails, my own insurance company has finally agreed with my version of the events. That the 3rd car hit my car and pushed my car forward to the 1st car (this is the 1st bang), as I was not in a complete stop and my car rolled forward again hit the 1st car (2nd bang). It was a 2 litter auto transmission. As a result they have tried to deny liability with the 1st car insurance company and now waiting for their response.

That is pretty much all I can think of for the moment.

If you're hit from behind while you're in gear and braking, there's a very high probability that your foot is going to pop off the clutch. So even if you manage to stop, you're going to be driven into the car, and then hop again. Surely the gardai would be aware of that.

tart29016

NUTLEY BOY wrote: »

Out of interest, has anything new happened with this case ?

There has been some developments I suppose.

-- I've not paid the FCN penalty so currently waiting for a court date. (exciting)

-- After a number of phone calls and emails, my own insurance company has finally agreed with my version of the events. That the 3rd car hit my car and pushed my car forward to the 1st car (this is the 1st bang), as I was not in a complete stop and my car rolled forward again hit the 1st car (2nd bang). It was a 2 litter auto transmission. As a result they have tried to deny liability with the 1st car insurance company and now waiting for their response.

That is pretty much all I can think of for the moment.

NUTLEY BOY

Out of interest, has anything new happened with this case ?

jimmycrackcorm

AndrewJRenko wrote:

No idea of quality, but it's hard to beat this price!

I have one of those. Excellent for the price.

Hococop

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

No idea of quality, but it's hard to beat this price!

https://www.dealrush.ie/offer/300014/ef-mall

Had something similar and broke pretty quick, got an Anker one off Amazon for £60 and it's brilliant so far but only have it a few weeks

[Deleted User]

tart29016 wrote: »

I AM GOING TO BUY A DASHCAM THIS WEEKEND!

No idea of quality, but it's hard to beat this price!

https://www.dealrush.ie/offer/300014/ef-mall

UrbanFox

secondrowgal wrote: »

Have you reported it here OP?

http://www.insuranceconfidential.ie/report

A variation on that occurs to me.

I do not know the exact system but do insurers not record the details of all claimants on a centralised database which they can interrogate ? If so, could OP's insurers check for matches for the names of the witnesses when they become available. Some of the witnesses might not be claimants thus avoiding their names being picked up as previous claimants. However, those witnesses could conspire to incriminate and render the OP liable and share the proceeds of the successful claims if that was a possible event. Sorry, that is my inner conspiracy theorist at work

mlumley

I dont think having the hand break on would have made a difference. The 3rd car hit the second car at such a speed and force, it was written off.

Sue Pa Key Pa

secondrowgal wrote: »

He said above that he thinks it's a scam.

You would need far more than that

secondrowgal

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

Report what exactly?

He said above that he thinks it's a scam.

Galway1989

I think Gardai are obliged to prosecute if someone is injured in an accident and other than that is at their discretion.
I could be wrong. I was in an accident lately. What I've learned is:

1) be patient with other road users
2) Keep your distance from the car in front.
3) Slow down and stay well behind anyone who does anything silly. Be extremely careful about overtaking them (again patience comes in here) I think i'd look for somewhere safe to pull in and let traffic pass me before attempting to overtake a clueless driver again. But I have to be cautious now I have an accident on my record.

If an accident happens:
State the facts as you know them to the guards only. Keep it simple. Don't make any comment about who was at fault. Don't sign anything and don't trust the other driver's word if the car you hit is occupied. Report it to your insurance. Even a minor tip can result in somebody trying to sue you for a whiplash injury to the tune of thousands. Your insurance might only take on the claim if they've been informed that the accident took place (usually within 24 hours)

Safe driving!

Sue Pa Key Pa

secondrowgal wrote: »

Have you reported it here OP?

http://www.insuranceconfidential.ie/report

Report what exactly?

secondrowgal

Have you reported it here OP?

http://www.insuranceconfidential.ie/report

beauf

tart29016 wrote: »

I did not even have time to put my handbrake on as I was coming to a full stop and was struck by the last car.

Then you were too close to begin with, sorry

devils advocate and all that.

Seems odd that people say you jumped a second time. Whereas you think you didn't. It could be a scam. You often see drivers, driving oddly and it pretty obvious they are looking to make someone run into them.

tart29016

The FCN issued to me was for "driving without reasonable consideration" and I think this is different to the careless driving thing, isn't it?

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

seamus

ForestFire wrote: »

They can't all walk away can they.

The first driver is in the clear anyway?
The third driver is going to be responsible for his part regardless??
He might be able to reduce his liability, but not remove any completely?

If the 3rd driver can get the OP done for careless driving then his insurance company might roll over.

NUTLEY BOY

OP I am very disappointed for you that this is heading in the wrong direction.

Other posters are quite correct about the insurers rights in relation to the civil claims.

However, the insurers have no control over your right to defend the prosecution in the District Court. It might be worth asking the insurers to hold off any negotiations with other parties until the prosecution is disposed of.

You never know what can happen in the DC. Some of the witnesses might or might not swear up to the evidence they have given in their written and or oral statements to Gardai. It might be worth asking your solicitor to ask the prosecution witnesses on cross-examination if they know each other ! He might not get away with it but what the Hell as you have come this far !

dev100

tart29016 wrote:

I think that is probably the reason why car in front felt 2 impacts but how could my insurance company prove that? There must be a industry standard way to prove liability in multiple car collision. For instance, check the damage of the car in front and check the damage of my car?I AM GOING TO BUY A DASHCAM THIS WEEKEND!

As soon I seen your opening post and had been threatening it for a long time I went out the next day and bought one . I'm going to stick one in the back window also ....

You need to ask yourself did the 3rd car hit you first and then did you hit the first car in that sequence or did you hit the car in front first and pushed it forward and the car behind you shunted into you and then hit the car in front again?

To be honest for insurance purposes I don't think it will matter with insurance because you hit the car in front and the car behind hit you .

ForestFire

seamus wrote: »

They all walk away with their compensation, you get shafted.

They can't all walk away can they.

The first driver is in the clear anyway?
The third driver is going to be responsible for his part regardless??
He might be able to reduce his liability, but not remove any completely?

seamus

In all seriousness, there's every possibility that you're being scammed here.

If the first and the last driver know eachother, then they catch you in the middle, sandwich you in and then claim that you caused the whole thing. They all walk away with their compensation, you get shafted.

Unfortunately, unless you could convince the investigating Garda to take a closer look at the other two drivers, then there's probably not much you can do.

tart29016

beauf wrote: »

Don't think so. An impact is an impact.

The insurance will work it to what ever is the least cost to themselves, in my experience. If that means someone gets shafted they won't really care.

This is one of the reasons your meant to put your handbrake on when stopped at lights etc, and keep a certain amount of distance between you and the car in front. So in the case of shunts, you won't be shunted into the car in front.

keep fighting it as long as possible. The insurance will (again in my experience) take the path of least resistance. So be a stubborn as possible. Might take a couple of years before its settled and they will inflate your premiums until it is.

I did not even have time to put my handbrake on as I was coming to a full stop and was struck by the last car.

tart29016

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

I appreciate your strong feelings on this matter, but the case will be decided on what can be proved or verified by independent witnesses. As this does not seem possible, insurers of the middle and 3rd car will will take a pragmatic approach and will probably settle.

You say you want your insurers to fully investigate this matter, what do you suggest they do? Each party has a different version of events and the physical damage is unlikely to establish if there were one or two shunts. Unfortunately, you writing to them on how they should handle the claim, will not influence their approach. It is a policy condition with all insurers that they will handle a claim as they deem appropriate

I do have strong feeling about this because I know what happened that day. But knowing what happened and being able to prove what happened is a different thing.

I agree that my insurance company will probably take the easiest way out of this situation and I have no way to influence them. But I still would like to try to push them a little bit.

Sam Kade

Brian Lighthouse wrote: »

I'm curious about this as I thought rolling collisions were dealt with from the front and working backwards.
Wouldn't the OP have been dealing with two insurance claims - one from car 1 and his own issue with car 3?
Or, has that practice stopped?
Thanks

That used to be the case unless it was changed. The first car claims off the op and the op claims off the third car and also counter claims off them for the claim on the first car.

beauf

Don't think so. An impact is an impact.

The insurance will work it to what ever is the least cost to themselves, in my experience. If that means someone gets shafted they won't really care.

This is one of the reasons your meant to put your handbrake on when stopped at lights etc, and keep a certain amount of distance between you and the car in front. So in the case of shunts, you won't be shunted into the car in front.

keep fighting it as long as possible. The insurance will (again in my experience) take the path of least resistance. So be a stubborn as possible. Might take a couple of years before its settled and they will inflate your premiums until it is.

Sue Pa Key Pa

I appreciate your strong feelings on this matter, but the case will be decided on what can be proved or verified by independent witnesses. As this does not seem possible, insurers of the middle and 3rd car will will take a pragmatic approach and will probably settle.

You say you want your insurers to fully investigate this matter, what do you suggest they do? Each party has a different version of events and the physical damage is unlikely to establish if there were one or two shunts. Unfortunately, you writing to them on how they should handle the claim, will not influence their approach. It is a policy condition with all insurers that they will handle a claim as they deem appropriate

tart29016

beauf wrote: »

Hits the car in front and in the impact foot falls off the clutch, car hits car in front again, etc.

I think that is probably the reason why car in front felt 2 impacts but how could my insurance company prove that? There must be a industry standard way to prove liability in multiple car collision. For instance, check the damage of the car in front and check the damage of my car?

I AM GOING TO BUY A DASHCAM THIS WEEKEND!