Link3n wrote: » Hi, Just wondering if anybody has the latest regarding batch 2. What number are they at for Dublin? Anybody get their placing for regional locations? Did anybody get an offer from batch 2 yet? Would be great to get some clarification on the whole thing?
coloneldecker wrote: » I rang this morning to try to get my place on the Dublin panel but told they don't keep a specific Dublin panel which seems weird, I would've thought they'd have the panels done up for each region but apparently they do them all except Dublin. The guy told me the open placing was a very good indication of Dublin placing as there were very few people without Dublin as a selection which again seems weird given that a good few people on here seem to be regional only. He also said that being on both open and interdepartmental is no advantage and the open is all that really matters. So basically I know no more after that call than I did before, if anything, I know less!!
Riskymove wrote: » It is Departments that must follow the ratio not PAS PAS will respond to requests from Departments for example PAS oculd recieve requests from 10 Departments all seeking someone from Open Panel so next 10 would all be from Open[/QUOTE if rumours are to be believed certain departments have debts to various panels - not a very transparent process I'm afraid!!
sodacake1968 wrote: » Riskymove wrote: » It is Departments that must follow the ratio not PAS PAS will respond to requests from Departments for example PAS oculd recieve requests from 10 Departments all seeking someone from Open Panel so next 10 would all be from Open[/QUOTE if rumours are to be believed certain departments have debts to various panels - not a very transparent process I'm afraid!! I wonder how much in reality it makes a difference. If there (and this is an estimate) are two thirds of applicants on open and interd whether the person is taken from the interd or open doesn't matter as in 2/3rds of cases it is the same person. Know very little on the internal process but imagine there is crossover there between interd and internal.
ZolaGood wrote: » But the offer you get will specify which panel you are coming from. For instance I turned down an Open Dublin offer and I got a further Inter D offer for Dublin (which I also turned down!) if I had accepted the open one of course I wouldn't have gotten the Inter D offer.
ThumbTaxed wrote: » Honest question. How do you feel about taking a job ahead of someone who is far better suited to that job and the only reason you are getting it is because of the inadequate way PAS and the civil service hire? No, it isn't sour grapes by the way. I am speaking on behalf of those better qualified on internal promotion lists or open panels who are blocked by such persons.
Link3n wrote: » ZolaGood wrote: » But the offer you get will specify which panel you are coming from. For instance I turned down an Open Dublin offer and I got a further Inter D offer for Dublin (which I also turned down!) if I had accepted the open one of course I wouldn't have gotten the Inter D offer. How do you get the offer? Is it by email or phone call?
ZolaGood wrote: » Message on your PAS message board
Killer K wrote: » Are they specific about the Department and the role in the mesage?
dee75 wrote: » Only the Department and county in my message. Plus a name and contact number for the person in that department's HR who will ring with full details and start date after (I haven't had the latter bit yet so hoping to hear early next week).
Killer K wrote: » Thanks Dee. That has taken some more of the mystery out of it! Hope you hear from HR soon. I take it that you are going through reference checks and E vetting at the moment and that is why there is a wait?
bobbysands81 wrote: » As you're a Civil Servant who was obviously successful in an Open Competition (which you are criticising) are you going to resign as you have also taken a job "ahead of someone who is far better suited to that job"... or are you just going to be a hypocrite?
ThumbTaxed wrote: » Someone coming from open competition can be far better than those internally looking for promotion so I seriously don't get your point. Bias here is disappointing. Shows a lack of "critical thinking" especially for the high fliers who post here
noodler wrote: » I'd have to say that someone who was the AO or HEO in an area for a couple of years is generally far better equipped to do the AP role regardless of getting a marginally lower score in a generic and subjective job simulation test. Its common sense to me. Doesn't preclude an outsider coming in and doing a good job, although likely requiring a long bedding in period.
dee75 wrote: » That's it exactly. I'm external so they wanted a reference from my current employer (although they classed current as where you were in December 2016 when we all applied rather than where you are right now). Because I was self-employed at that time I had to get two client references instead which took about a week or so to organise. I also had to complete the online vetting form but it took only two days for vetting to come back!
Uriel. wrote: » I don't agree with TT's position but what you are describing is not what competency based interviews are about. Knowledge of a particular role doesn't necessarily mean you have the skills required to do higher duty. Maybe you could go from HEO to AP in the same job and your knowledge will see you through and you might perform well, but eventually in the civil service you'll get moved around and the knowledge of a specific role is mostly lost and not transferable. Rather it is the skills and abilities (ie. The competencies) that are supposed to be transferable. PAS is looking for those skills rather than your knowledge of a particular area of work. In those instances, an external person coming in might have the higher and better skills and once bedded in has a much higher skill ceiling that is transferable. That's what they want in our public sector.
noodler wrote: » I almost disregard the interview here to be honest. The success rate in interview in this comp once you have passed exams and etray seems to be in be incredibly high. However, I can say from experience that telling a good story on the day in a competency based interview, in my opinion I should say, is certainly not a good way of getting the best person for the job.
Uriel. wrote: » There's no perfect way. Internal interviews are every bit as bad and the complete disregard by the majority of the civil service for PMDS further accentuates the problem
noodler wrote: » I can't agree with that. At least in an internal interview people are shortlisted based on genuine experience and examples directly relating to the job. They can also be interviewed on a similar basis with the board having a reasonably genuine ability to scrutinise this experience and examples. I absolutely agree there is no perfect way though.
Uriel. wrote: » That's not the case always in internal interviews. I've had several internal interviews where the panel of interviewers knew nothing beyond what I had on the form. Sure your line manager has to sign off on it, but there's so much grey there that when you get to an interview you can fill in any gaps you want with made up experience. It's little different to the external panels. The role of the interviewer is to probe your examples for deeper understanding. If you are good at "playing the game" in interviews you'll generally be fine, but mostly what you'll find happening in internals is the candidate putting themselves in the shoes of their line management in the interview and portraying not their experience but that of their managers. I don't believe that internal competitions produce better candidates at the other end of the filtering process than external competitions at all. I say that having been on both sides of the table.
ThumbTaxed wrote: » Why are people comparing open recruits to internal recruits when this conversation came from a negative comment re interdepartmental recruits? Not comparing like with like. How is someone going for a general civil service job and getting a position in social welfare without even knowing that the rate of dole is comparable to an accountant, say, going for an accountants position in Tulsa on an open competition. There is no comparison and that is why promotion on interdepartmental is basically the dogs dinner of promotions and a nuisance to the country.
