Red_Wake wrote: » Do you actually believe that Unionists make up their entire culture to denigrate, what you perceive, as Irish culture?
tomwaterford wrote: » Red_Wake wrote: » Do you actually believe that Unionists make up their entire culture to denigrate, what you perceive, as Irish culture? Yes, particularly in relation to this language Do you have evidence to suggest they've culture that amounts to.anything else other than trimplulism
Red_Wake wrote: » How do you expect anyone to believe you'd respect and coexist with Unionists, when you come out with statements like that?
blanch152 wrote: » It is very hard to understand but that type of sentiment appears to be widespread among Northern nationalists. It speaks to either (1) an astonishing level of paranoia (2) an embittered and entrenched hatred of unionists (3) I really can't think of a third option. Either way it doesn't augur well for mutual respect and recognition of each others culture. If one side believes the others culture is solely for the purpose of degenerating theirs there is little hope of any reconciliation progress in the North, a necessary precondition for progress towards a united Ireland.
FrancieBrady wrote: » If we were to write a list of all the things the DUP have dug their heels in about since before the GFA and after, it would be TL;DR. And all of it based on their insecure anti-Irish and fundamentalist ideology. And they capitulated on every one of them because their position is basically untenable and northern Ireland is a much much better place for that reason. Their can be no hiding place for bigotry and suprematism on this island, not in a political party nor behind the skirts of a church.
blanch152 wrote: » There is nobody on here defending the DUP's religious bigotry, misogyny or homophobia. However, it is interesting that the main thing being raised by nationalists on here is the Irish Language Act, mirroring SF's major concern out in the real world. A real gamechanger for SF would be to back down on the Irish Language Act issue, accepting a Minority Languages Act instead, but in return insisted on same sex-marriage legalisation and adoption of UK abortion law. Now that would show they are interested in all the citizens of Northern Ireland rather than their own little patch. Given the outrage that suggestion will create on here, I hold out little hope of it making it.
FrancieBrady wrote: » I'll challenge you to a list. I will list unionist anti Irish/fundamentalist stances over the last 30 years and you come back with nationalist/Republican ones of the same weight, and we'll put the 'they are all the same' claim to bed once and for all. You up for it?
FrancieBrady wrote: » Acquiesce to make some people feel a little better about not calling out unadulterated bigotry and supremacy that has been going on since the foundation of the statelet? Not going to happen in my name. We have reached a crossroad.
blanch152 wrote: » It is very hard to understand but that type of sentiment appears to be widespread among Northern nationalists. It speaks to either (1) an astonishing level of paranoia (2) an embittered and entrenched hatred of unionists
Either way it doesn't augur well for mutual respect and recognition of each others culture.
there is little hope of any reconciliation progress in the North
a necessary precondition for progress towards a united Ireland
blanch152 wrote: » You are the one that portrays me as having made a "they are all the same" claim as if it can be measured. Why 30 years? Why not 50 years or the normal 800 years of oppression? Looking back 20 years I only need to give one example - the Omagh bombing - to balance out the unionists anti-Irish stances (the fundamentalist stances should be disregarded) . Now I know the response will be that was not SF or the IRA and was condemned by ordinary nationalists, but there are many unionists who do not support the DUP position on everything. If, as you appear to do, wish to tarnish the entire Unionist community with responsibility for the attitude of the DUP, then you must accept responsibility for the Omagh bombing and all other dissident republican activity.
Junkyard Tom wrote: » Would your bizarre prescription for reconciliation expect Black people in the US to reconcile with the Klan?
blanch152 wrote: » There is no comparison. At all.
blanch152 wrote: » Not at all, make a big step towards representing all the people of Northern Ireland and be magnanimous towards the other side. Probably something beyond any of the actors in the North at the moment, but something we outsiders can wish for.
FrancieBrady wrote: » blanch152 wrote: » Not at all, make a big step towards representing all the people of Northern Ireland and be magnanimous towards the other side. Probably something beyond any of the actors in the North at the moment, but something we outsiders can wish for. No. Belligerent bigoted Unionism is not going to be appeased. Neither is lazy hat doffing partitionism. That is just kicking the problem down a road.
steddyeddy wrote: » Well apart from the Orange Order/klan links. Sectarianism and supremacy.
Red_Wake wrote: » How would you describe the current SF response to unionism? And is it a productive way of resolving the situation?
At the minute, it seems like nationalists are waiting for your 50% +1 votes, which is a product of demographic change as much as anything else[and could be set back by any number of national/international events], and hoping that in the event of unification, your opposing community will effectively cease to exist[which given the belligerence you repeatedly bring up, is unlikely]. Personally, as a voter in the ROI, were I asked to vote for a UI, I would vote for partition to continue. How would you persuade me that my concerns[economic, political, cultural and social] are unfounded?
FrancieBrady wrote: » Red_Wake wrote: » How would you describe the current SF response to unionism? And is it a productive way of resolving the situation? All the other parties would describe the behaviour of the DUP since the GFA as frustrating and intolerable any longer. You cannot expect anybody to go on and on and on appeasing. (which is what southern partitionists always seem to want)
Red_Wake wrote: » I'm asking about the SF response - how would you describe it, and is it constructive to making inroads to a long term solution? If they're not doing the latter, they're guilty of kicking the can down the road as well. Would you agree or disagree?
FrancieBrady wrote: » I think SF had no choice and were right to do what they did. Now the two governments have to play their part and pressure the DUP to allow progress to normality to continue. This 'can' has been kicked down the road since the GFA,
blanch152 wrote: » A real gamechanger for SF would be to back down on the Irish Language Act issue, accepting a Minority Languages Act instead, but in return insisted on same sex-marriage legalisation and adoption of UK abortion law. Now that would show they are interested in all the citizens of Northern Ireland rather than their own little patch. .
blanch152 wrote: » The mere fact that people make glib comparisons between Unionists and the KKK as one poster did, shows how far mutual understanding and mutual respect have to go before the idea of unification can even be tabled.
blanch152 wrote: » There is always a choice, I outlined one in an earlier post. Choice isn't lacking, courage is.
steddyeddy wrote: » It isn't constructive to ignore the fact that the DUP and their voters woupd do anything to fight Irish culture in the North. Cutting funds to send special needs to gaeltacht schools while pouring money into the Orange Order. They haven't accepted Irish culture. They didn'teven want to sign up to the GFA.so yes, SF were right to end government. It wasn't conducive to parity of esteem to continue.
Jep Gambardella wrote: » According to the 2011 census, Irish was the main language of 0.238% of Northern Irish residents, while Ulster Scots was the main language of 0.004%. In other words, a grand total of 0.242% of the population of Northern Ireland speaks either as their primary language Both the DUP and Sinn Fein should get their Language Act (or Acts) provided their assembly members agree to finance all the additional costs, including translation, signage, etc. out of their own pockets.
