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Child Item

Canadian parent raising child as gender-neutral.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

So I just read this article from the BBC.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40480386

To quote a small bit from the article...

An eight-month old Canadian baby has been issued a health card without a gender marker, in what could be the first case in the world.
Parent Kori Doty - a non-binary transgender person who identifies as neither male nor female - aims to allow the child to discover their own gender.
The health card has been issued with a "U" in the space for "sex", which could be for "undetermined" or "unassigned".
Kori Doty is fighting to omit the gender from the birth certificate.
The parent gave birth to Searyl Atli in November at a friend's home in British Columbia. Kori Doty, who prefers to use the pronoun they, argues that a visual inspection at birth is unable to determine what gender that person will have or identify with later in life.

Before post #3 asks what's OP's opinion....

Absolutely ridiculous. The poor child. As for its mother or whatever "THEY" want to be called, well you're a fücking idiot. I sincerely hope your child is taken from you to save HIM/HER from a life of absolute fücking misery. Hey read a science book you gowl.

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Senna

gizmo81 wrote: »

Homosexuals and transexuals have been in existence since before 1869.

I'm referring to you saying society forces heterosexuality, I'm saying it's natures dominates it.

Anyway, what has this got to do with the gender of a child, or do you just like to make every debate about your own topics?

[Deleted User]

OK, I'll accept that gender can be ambiguous, even though I think it's ridiculous and verges on confusing personality with gender there are smarter people than me, and many psychologists, who state this to be the case.

And if this is in fact the case then we need to remove gender from birth certs and add "sex" as your birth should be a matter of record and your sex is unquestionable except in a tiny minority of cases where there might be a hermaphrodite or similar.

And then even if there's a sex change, the birth cert should not change as it is a matter of record. You can change a passport or drivers licence in accordance with whatever genitals the person has as their purpose is to identify, your sex can be used to identify along with picture, name etc.

Lastly, if the ma in the OP is non binary, and is neither male nor female, then why the **** would you get a sex change!?!? Mental issues....

[Deleted User]

Does the article confuse sex and gender?

I mean, the birth cert identifies the sex of the child, based on appearance, but does gender not incorporate psychological, hormonal and chromosome considerations, and so gender can change?

gizmo81

I haven't time to educate the Knights of Colombanuranus. I'm sure you can understand a wiki page and hopefully move on to something of more academic rigour.

Common examples include the assumption that children will grow up to marry a person of the opposite sex, children must steer away from having friends of the opposite sex, sexual education books that exclusively discuss heterosexuality, the concept of "coming out", religious and secular organizations that assume all members are heterosexual, and believing that if one can pretend to be heterosexual that is better than being homosexual. Compulsory heterosexuality is seen as ignorant, a contributor to homophobia by marginalizing non-heterosexuals, treating heterosexuality as the superior default, and decreasing awareness of the large number of people within the population who are not heterosexual.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_heterosexuality

LadyMacBeth_

I don't know, I mean I'm bi but I'm aware that I'm in the minority, I generally assume that people are straight unless I am told otherwise, most people are straight. It's like I'm left handed but I know that's unusual so I usually assume that someone is right handed. Doesn't mean I am enforcing right handedness on people.

cdeb

There was an article in National Geographic recently about gender. There was a bit where it said that people who said they were gender fluid/non-binary/whatever were something like 10 times more likely to be autistic.

I think that's a link well worth exploring before giving in to demands like this. Basically - are autistic people more likely to be influenced by popular trends? Are they making it up?

(Gender doesn't equate to sexuality obviously)

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

I am neither left handed or right handed and I take exception to your post!! I identify as ambidextrous. :pac: :cool:

LadyMacBeth_ wrote: »

I don't know, I mean I'm bi but I'm aware that I'm in the minority, I generally assume that people are straight unless I am told otherwise, most people are straight. It's like I'm left handed but I know that's unusual so I usually assume that someone is right handed. Doesn't mean I am enforcing right handedness on people.

me_irl

Time to break this one out again. :pac:

Dirty Dingus McGee

gizmo81 wrote: »

I haven't time to educate the Knights of Colombanuranus. I'm sure you can understand a wiki page and hopefully move on to something of more academic rigour.

Common examples include the assumption that children will grow up to marry a person of the opposite sex, children must steer away from having friends of the opposite sex, sexual education books that exclusively discuss heterosexuality, the concept of "coming out", religious and secular organizations that assume all members are heterosexual, and believing that if one can pretend to be heterosexual that is better than being homosexual. Compulsory heterosexuality is seen as ignorant, a contributor to homophobia by marginalizing non-heterosexuals, treating heterosexuality as the superior default, and decreasing awareness of the large number of people within the population who are not heterosexual.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_heterosexuality

What a load of nonsense.The reason people assume children will grow up to marry a person of the opposite sex is because parents themselves are married to someone of the opposite sex.

Being gay puts you in the minority therefore it is perfectly natural to assume that children will not be gay because minority means minority.

retro:electro

"Canadian", how dare they assume its nationality!

Ann_Landers

The baby should be assigned by their biological gender. I mean, the baby's mother clearly was able to work out for herself (themself?) what she was (they were?) so can't the child do the same?

Burial.

anna080 wrote: »

"Canadian", how dare they assume its nationality!

Oh yeah wait before they come out with the free inhabitant of the Earth nonsense!

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Ann_Landers wrote: »

The baby should be assigned by their biological gender. I mean, the baby's mother clearly was able to work out for herself (themself?) what she was (they were?) so can't the child do the same?

The mother identifies as "they"...it would be wrong to assume they have any kind of common sense to establish what "they" are.

B.A._Baracus

On the subject of things I recently found out bisexual is now called pansexual.

Things be crazy.

hytrogen

gizmo81 wrote:

Gender is a state of being, socially and culturally constructed. Gender has little to do with what's between your legs.

Anatomically it does and defines how one procreates and therefore how one contributes to the evolution of the species.

gizmo81 wrote:

But society has forced heterosexuality on everyone . . .

Darwin 101

gizmo81 wrote:

Why is this any different?

Because as a child you are dependent on your parents to make those defensive and wise decisions for you and then for them to teach you to make your own decisions for yourself to finally determine whether they were right or wrong in what they chose to accomplish for you and society.

super_furry

Ann_Landers wrote: »

The baby should be assigned by their biological gender. I mean, the baby's mother clearly was able to work out for herself (themself?) what she was (they were?) so can't the child do the same?

It's like the other side of the 'don't let gay people adopt, they'll make gay children!' argument. Ignoring the fact that gay people are nearly almost the children of straight couples.

gizmo81

You are confusing sex and gender.

You completely miss the point of compulsory heterosexuality.

Parents make lots of decisions on behalf that they have no right to. Sexuality, Gender Identity, Religion etc

hytrogen wrote: »

Anatomically it does and defines how one procreates and therefore how one contributes to the evolution of the species.

Darwin 101

Because as a child you are dependent on your parents to make those defensive and wise decisions for you and then for them to teach you to make your own decisions for yourself to finally determine whether they were right or wrong in what they chose to accomplish for you and society.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

gizmo81 wrote: »

You are confusing sex and gender.

You completely miss the point of compulsory heterosexuality.

Parents make lots of decisions on behalf that they have no right to. Sexuality, Gender Identity, Religion etc

If anyone's confusing sex and gender it's you.

gizmo81

You are wrong.

Taken from the National Centre for Biotechnology Information, US National Library of Medicine, National Institutes of Health.

To discuss and address properly the differences in health and health care between men and women, it is necessary to distinguish between sex and gender and their respective effects on health. Sex differences are based on biological factors. These include reproductive function, concentrations of sexual hormones, the expression of genes on X and Y chromosomes and their effects and the higher percentage of body fat in women. By contrast, gender is associated with behaviour, lifestyle and life experience. It determines access to health care, use of the health care system and the behavioural attitudes of medical personnel.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3388783/

Hunky Monster wrote: »

If anyone's confusing sex and gender it's you.

cdeb

Further down the article -

The family's lawyer, barbara findlay, who chooses to spell her name without capital letters

Where the **** do they find these people?! Have they that little to be worrying about? Or are they that insecure in themselves that the come up with rubbish like this?

HigginsJ

gizmo81 wrote: »

Parents make lots of decisions on behalf that they have no right to. Sexuality, Gender Identity, Religion etc

Can you just fill me in fully on what decisions I can make on behalf of my son & daughter (am I allowed name them or choose what they wear?) and which ones I should leave to them.

Can I keep control of food choices? As if it were my daughters choice she would probably just eat chocolate buttons & apples (could be a sign there they cant really make any big decisions themselves just yet!!)

Samaris

I'm willing to accept we may have got it wrong on gender, since when you start getting into psychology and the human mind, we're mostly wrong and not really that definitive.

But people really shouldn't pull social conditioning experimentation on their kids. It rarely goes well. Kids mostly benefit from being treated the same as other kids.

Mrs OBumble

Emilee Late Geometry wrote: »

I don't understand any of this shít. If the child:
- has a penis it's a boy
- has a vagina it's a girl
- has neither or both, they have a birth defect and something called ambiguous genitalia (just looked that up)

There's a reason some choices are taken away from us.

Its not quite that simple: there are also cases when a persons genitals aren't the same as their chromosomes (either way), and i think these are more instances of ambigious genitalia.

I've observed that the kids of people who are determined not to apply gender stereotypes to their children tend to very strongly adopt the typical characteristics of their gender. So in this case I'd expect that as soon as the kid starts pre school it will turn into either a very girly girl or boyish boy very quickly. And quite likely demand to be called by a different name too.

Dirty Dingus McGee

gizmo81 wrote: »

You are confusing sex and gender.

You completely miss the point of compulsory heterosexuality.

Parents make lots of decisions on behalf that they have no right to. Sexuality, Gender Identity, Religion etc

That's the way the world works.If children made decisions for themselves none of them would go to school do their homework and we'd be left with generation after generation of lazy idiots.Although based on some of your posts maybe that's what happened in your house growing up.

mick.oleary

Psychology is not a real science and society should not allow itself to be warped by those who are ill.

mdwexford

gizmo81 wrote: »

Parents make lots of decisions on behalf that they have no right to. Sexuality, Gender Identity, Religion etc

Comical stuff

Penny Tration

I don't give a damn how anyone identifies themselves, and I'll use whatever pronouns somebody wants me to use. I've got trans friends, gay friends, and whatever, I don't care, I'll treat them with the respect and love they treat me with.

But this is wrong. A baby cannot decide what gender they are. Therefore it makes most sense, for a parent who doesn't like gender roles, to allow the birth cert to use their biological sex, raise them in a loving household full of "boy's" and "girl's" toys with no gender stereotypes, and as the child grows, the child will know who they are.

Refusing to put anything at all on the birth cert strikes me as attention seeking.

gizmo81

I'm a doctoral candidate. I'm not worried what you think of me, just saddened that your only recourse to debate is to attack me and my family.

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

That's the way the world works.If children made decisions for themselves none of them would go to school do their homework and we'd be left with generation after generation of lazy idiots.Although based on some of your posts maybe that's what happened in your house growing up.

batistuta9

1,000 years from now there will be no guys and no girls, just ****. Sounds great to me.

Mark Renton, 1996

Grayson

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

Its all the internet's fault.

What was so wrong with being male or female?

Nothing's wrong with it. I think the point was that they want the child to figure it out for themselves.

To be fair, there may come a time when gender isn't on birth certs at all. I don't mean that in a politically correct way, I just mean the info might not be necessary.

I just checked and they don't ask for height, weight, hair colour, blood type etc. All they ask for regarding the child is name and gender. And why even bother with gender?