Mayo GAA Discussion Part 2

exactly its nothing but its negative headlines and thats the point. You dont want that surrounding a player especially an amateur one and I am sure Rochford is sick to death of it

PressRun

He took photos with some kids after a challenge match. Wow. What a monster.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2017/0518/876179-aidan-oshea/

An example of what being in limelight brings upon a player

PressRun

Also switching Cillian to full forward and trying Diarmuid at 11 is what I'm seeing? Definitely something worth trying, imo.

PressRun

Cafferky starting on Sunday. Interested to see how he's going.

Audioslaven

flasher0030 wrote: »

Audioslaven - Is your user name any reference to the late Chris Cornell's band?

Yes, its a sad day. I couldn't believe it when I heard it this morning. I had the privileged of seen Audioslave way back when they formed in the O2 around 2002/2003. I will never forget it.

A extremely talented guy with a wonderful voice and such a deep song writer.

RIP Cornell

FullBack Jam

Audioslaven - Is your user name any reference to the late Chris Cornell's band?

Audioslaven

kilns wrote: »

It is what comes with the terrority.? He puts himself out there in the media so he is going be highlighted and more recognised that those who wouldnt.
I think he is a good player but he is not a top player i.e not in top 20 players in the country and he should be judged on his ability based on that

I think AOS has the potential to be a top player, he needs to take the step. He really was something special at the Donegal game when he came on. He didn't look too fit but the attitude by him was spot on. I hope he plays with that determination all year and the criticism will disappear. Also Mayo need him to play like this.

It is what comes with the terrority. He puts himself out there in the media so he is going be highlighted and more recognised that those who wouldnt.
I think he is a good player but he is not a top player i.e not in top 20 players in the country and he should be judged on his ability based on that

kilns wrote: »

I think the point is that AOS puts himself out to the media an awful lot for someone who has never really been a consistently top player and that he brings this criticism upon himself by doing that.
I guess if he never appeared in the media etc he would be treated just like his brother and people wouldnt pay much attention to him or criticism him for under performing when perhaps he has at his level and will never exceed that.
He is earning a bit of extra cash and fair play to him but he has to take the flak that comes with that exposure

100% that is the case, and there is no issue with highlighting it, and you could understand some level, of people silently wanting him to get a bit of comeuppance over it.

The thing is, when people start judging his performances more harshly because of it - which is now what is happening - doesn't that reflect badly on those judging him too? There is a difference between waiting to say I told you so when he does fail, and inventing failures, with the latter being a bit pathetic.

I think the point is that AOS puts himself out to the media an awful lot for someone who has never really been a consistently top player and that he brings this criticism upon himself by doing that.
I guess if he never appeared in the media etc he would be treated just like his brother and people wouldnt pay much attention to him or criticism him for under performing when perhaps he has at his level and will never exceed that.
He is earning a bit of extra cash and fair play to him but he has to take the flak that comes with that exposure

blanch152 wrote: »

That is a very good point.

If your defence of Aidan O'Shea as having delivered performances consistently on the big days is correct, then the question arises as to why Mayo haven't won a national title. Is it because the rest of the big names on the team - Lee Keegan, Cillian O'Connor, Andy Moran, David Clarke, etc. - aren't good enough or haven't performed? You can't blame the referee/conditions/bad luck for all the failures. Some of the players must either go missing or just not be good enough.

I never claimed he has performed consistently on the big day - no player does. I highlighted the fallacy in the suggestion that he has never delivered on a big day. People go on about delivering in the all Ireland final, yet more often than not in a final, across all sports, it is some unheralded guy who makes the difference. Mario Gotze in the world cup final for Germany. Costello in the AI final replay last year, Small in the first game.. Jason Doherty was arguably our best performer in the first game also.

While there has been some exceptional circumstances, be it deliberate media intervention (Joe Brolly 2012, Jim Gavin's media mouthpieces 2016) or shamefully one-sided refereeing to name but two...

The majority of the time, the team just weren't as good as the other team on the day. Why does someone have to be blamed? For instance, what individual was to blame for the startled earwigs? Or the loss to ourselves in 2012, or to donegal in 2014? Or were they just beaten by a better team on the day?

You would be forgiven for not knowing the U-17 game is on. Prenty was interviewed in the Mayo News Podcast and he noted that while the Seniors are one of the best supported counties around, our support of underage is pretty poor. I think he said that Galway brought more support to McHale for the minor match.

There's next to no coverage in the local papers of the upcoming match. It's a shame that they couldn't find a few pages.

Maybe following the seniors is enough for any one supporter to handle.

naughto

I don't think we will learn a hole lot this Sunday it's more to get the rust out of the team Sligo are very weak and will put up a god first half but I'd expect us to win handy

Coillte_Bhoy

blanch152 wrote: »

That is a very good point.

If your defence of Aidan O'Shea as having delivered performances consistently on the big days is correct, then the question arises as to why Mayo haven't won a national title. Is it because the rest of the big names on the team - Lee Keegan, Cillian O'Connor, Andy Moran, David Clarke, etc. - aren't good enough or haven't performed? You can't blame the referee/conditions/bad luck for all the failures. Some of the players must either go missing or just not be good enough.

You can't lay all the blame on the 'big' players. I think it's a case that our lesser players aren't up to the mark especially in the forwards. We will have 3/4 starters this year that wouldnt get within an asses roar of the Kerry or Dublin team imo

Western Pomise

seligehgit wrote: »

Mayo v Sligo is live on RTE 2 next Sunday at 2.00.

Hopefully it is a better game than the Connaught Final a few years back that was over after 15 minutes!

Sligo have a good few injuries so that will not help their cause and struggled for long periods in New York.

Oldtree

blanch152 wrote: »

Is it because the rest of the big names on the team - Lee Keegan, Cillian O'Connor, Andy Moran, David Clarke, etc. - aren't good enough or haven't performed? You can't blame the referee/conditions/bad luck for all the failures. Some of the players must either go missing or just not be good enough.

I dont blame anybody for a single point loss on a big day. That is a single kick of the ball that took less than a nano-second.

blanch152

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Here is the funny part though - Seamus O'Shea played in all those games too. Why doesn't anyone make the same observations about him? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

That is a very good point.

If your defence of Aidan O'Shea as having delivered performances consistently on the big days is correct, then the question arises as to why Mayo haven't won a national title. Is it because the rest of the big names on the team - Lee Keegan, Cillian O'Connor, Andy Moran, David Clarke, etc. - aren't good enough or haven't performed? You can't blame the referee/conditions/bad luck for all the failures. Some of the players must either go missing or just not be good enough.

ureds wrote: »

Anyone know who is in charge of the Under 17s?
They play Sligo on Sunday before the seniors.

Damien Gavin afaik.

ureds

Anyone know who is in charge of the Under 17s?
They play Sligo on Sunday before the seniors.

He's both over estimated and under appreciated a lot and it's generally by the same people. And they're connected imo.

People expect some type of Superman performances (in Big Games) but will be shy on giving credit when it's due. I feel that much of this is down to the media / sponsor attention he gets. He's a media dream. He gets more attention than anyone else, people see that and question why or expect him to live up to being the best... but he's not. He's the best person to create a bit of interest or promote a product.

I think it's understandable for people to see all this and question if it's deserved. In a pure football sense, it's not. But brands or journalists don't care for that.

When such high expectations are set then the good, very good performances can be overlooked. I think he has upped his game in recent years and it's rare you'll see a bad performance.

I would certainly fit him into a "best of" 15. I think the best barometer of him as a player is found when you look at opposition attention rather than media attention. He is regularly double teamed by big teams. These guys know their stuff.

He needs to win the Moclair now as well as Sam. And that's it in a nutshell, his status will be defined by his Club and Counties. Not many others are subject to that.

boosabum wrote: »

Playing against sligo in a connaught final wouldn't be classified as a big game in my book. Scoring a lot of goals and points against poor opposition doesn't cut the mustard.

Well it wouldn't be in mine either, and I never claimed it was. My point is you said big games are finals and finals alone. That was a final... So basically you are now saying that the only big game a guy can play in is the all Ireland final... That is the only big game in the year. Sorry, but that is just not anywhere near accurate.

boosabum wrote: »

When the teams were pretty well matched up:
2012 final, 2013 final, 2016 final & replay, being out scored by your marker in a big game replay in 2015.

But the fact that we haven't beaten Dublin in 5 years and around 10 games would indicate that they aren't evenly matched up...
As for 2015 replay - for starters that wasn't a final, so by your own logic doesn't count. Secondly if you are counting it then you have to count all the games I listed earlier, where he played well. :rolleyes:

boosabum wrote: »

Look at the 2013 & 2015 county finals

You again ignore the fact that they were the outsider in these games, up against a noticeably stronger outfit.

boosabum wrote: »

These are big games but no big performance. That's a significant enough sample size.

And I have given you about 3 times the number of big games where he did perform...

Here is the funny part though - Seamus O'Shea played in all those games too. Why doesn't anyone make the same observations about him? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

boosabum

Playing against sligo in a connaught final wouldn't be classified as a big game in my book. Scoring a lot of goals and points against poor opposition doesn't cut the mustard.

When the teams were pretty well matched up:
2012 final, 2013 final, 2016 final & replay, being out scored by your marker in a big game replay in 2015.

Look at the 2013 & 2015 county finals

These are big games but no big performance. That's a significant enough sample size.

boosabum wrote: »

Big days are usually defined as finals, he hasn't performed in any for his county or indeed club. Look back over his record in that sense.
I have said many times before that a marquee player can have a great game and still see their team lose.
Maybe we are over estimating him, but at this stage of his career where he has been playing senior inter-county football for almost a decade he possibly should be analyzed and critiqued with the best the game has to offer.

Well actually no they aren't, finals would be defined as just that - finals. You can have complete mismatch finals too on occasion. Is that a big day also? And how about Connacht finals? Aren't they finals also, and therefore big days? It is completely flawed logic, where basically the only game that counts is the All Ireland final. The details of the game are ignored also.

Big days would be a knockout game where the opposition would have in and around the same chance as yourself as coming out with the win. He has performed in plenty of those. I've been critical of him on here plenty of times, but the above simply cant be denied by any objective person.

In reality, this thing is completely relative to the quality of your team and the quality of the opposition on the day. It is also relative to things like the tactics of both teams, particularly when you operate in the inside line. If he was the exact same player and played for Dublin, he would probably not have any of this over his head. Simply because they are a better team, with lots of attacking ability and creativity. Plus they have won all Irelands and so don't come under the same scrutiny.

As for this thing about guys being judged on final performances at the peak of their career - wouldn't that mean that Peter Canavan is in the same boat? Or that someone like Declan Browne or Matty Forde were never any good because their team didn't win enough?

boosabum

Big days are usually defined as finals, he hasn't performed in any for his county or indeed club. Look back over his record in that sense.
I have said many times before that a marquee player can have a great game and still see their team lose.
Maybe we are over estimating him, but at this stage of his career where he has been playing senior inter-county football for almost a decade he possibly should be analyzed and critiqued with the best the game has to offer.

ProudDUB wrote: »

Ronaldo is one of the greatest players of his, or any other generation. People give him stick for being an arrogant, self centred twat, but it does not diminish his greatness, or his influence on his teams success, one single jot. Comparing Aidan O'Shea to Ronaldo, is one of the daftest things I have ever head.

Im not comparing their skillset, Im comparing the way media and fans in general tend to focus on his failings more than his abilities, because they dislike the guy as a person.
In short they get more of a kick out of the things he does wrong, rather than the things he does right. So that tends to be what we hear about. Admittedly, some media are playing on what they know the fans want to hear.

Also, if you cant see the difference in attitude when for example messi breaks a record or wins an award, and then Ronaldo does the same, then sorry but you must be blind. Im not a big Ronaldo defender or anything like that, but the difference in attitude is as clear as it is cringe worthy. People tend to personalise this stuff.

As for AOS, the big thing that is aimed at him is that he doesn't perform on the big day. But straight away, that is flawed. Define a big day... Cork 11, Dublin 12, Donegal 13, Tyrone 13, Cork 14, Kerry 14,Donegal 15, Dublin 15 (drawn game), Tyrone 16. All big days, all days AOS delivered.
What is a far more accurate observation is that when AOS doesn't have a good game, mayo tend to lose.

Mayo News Podcast is back.

Oldtree

I'm afraid I know little more about Ronaldo than his name, as I'm not a soccer fan.

However I am beginning to get excited about an upcoming football match that may feature Aiden O'Shea. I hope I don't peak too early

ProudDUB

Ronaldo is one of the greatest players of his, or any other generation. People give him stick for being an arrogant, self centred twat, but it does not diminish his greatness, or his influence on his teams success, one single jot. Comparing Aidan O'Shea to Ronaldo, is one of the daftest things I have ever head.