ohnonotgmail wrote: » A Little Pony wrote: » Morals don't exist in society now. Everyone thinks they can do what they want, when they want. The family life is dying off, less togetherness in society now which is probably why I enjoy my own community as we tend to have a bondness, instead of the empty vessel of multiculturalism which is utterly meaningless. I'm not sure i would like to live in a bubble like that. A Little Pony wrote: » Of course it is as is every view anyone has ever held in human history. That is my view. If you think fundamental rules shouldn't exist, then just let everyone do what they want in society. We shouldn't have laws on anything. Presumably those fundamental rules should come from a really old book?
A Little Pony wrote: » Morals don't exist in society now. Everyone thinks they can do what they want, when they want. The family life is dying off, less togetherness in society now which is probably why I enjoy my own community as we tend to have a bondness, instead of the empty vessel of multiculturalism which is utterly meaningless.
A Little Pony wrote: » Of course it is as is every view anyone has ever held in human history. That is my view. If you think fundamental rules shouldn't exist, then just let everyone do what they want in society. We shouldn't have laws on anything.
Outlaw Pete wrote: » Which is like saying that those who are opposed to the death penalty... can continue to not execute people.
notjustsweet wrote: » Outlaw Pete wrote: » Which is like saying that those who are opposed to the death penalty... can continue to not execute people. No, it's like saying people can make choices rather than one set of people forcing their beliefs and choices on everyone else.
A Little Pony wrote: » Beliefs and choices are forced on people every day. It is called law.
A Little Pony wrote: » No I'm not telling you.
idnkph wrote: » There was me thinking the Dail was our citizens assembly. After all we did vote for them. More great politics from our elected leaders. Put this decision on someone else to vote for it. Then they can't accept any of the blame for outcomes.
Game Face MCGee wrote: » I really can't get my head around this whole debate. I've no religious affiliation and I'm a father of 3 I can totally see why people want abortions, be it economic, not the right time, situational etc... I totally get why a woman would consider it as a solution. I'm logical in my though process. but I genuinely get a real pang or guilt or sadness when I think about the child/fetus (whatever side of the fence you sit) being terminated. I just cant shake it, and when people "celebrate" and are "overjoyed" about getting closer to legal abortion I just feel upset and think "how can you be so happy about this" not sure if I'm in the minority on this??
ohnonotgmail wrote: » That is the point of the thread. People want that law changed. And we have moved one step closer to doing that.
infogiver wrote: » some people want the law changed. we really don't know how many. a referendum would tell us.
frag420 wrote: » Eh...yes. Were you meant to add more to that or is that it, pointing out the bleeding obvious!?
ohnonotgmail wrote: » well some, for a currently unknown value of some, was assumed. Otherwise i would have said all. At least you are in agreement that a referendum is the right course of action. Let the people speak.
infogiver wrote: » Your very angry, I don't know why...but anyway... the poster said that people want the law changed. I pointed out that SOME people want the law changed, and some don't. A referendum will tell us one way or the other. The best thing to do if you don't like a posters "style" is to block that poster, maybe you didn't realise that. Or if you find the post breaks any forum rules you should "report" the post. Replying to me as you did just marks you out as being too rude and aggressive.
Akrasia wrote: » From your posts, you seem to define human life as when something looks human. For me, I define human life as when something can feel human (to itself)
The Developmental of Self-Awareness The neurobiological and psychological triggers for self-awareness have not yet been clarified. What we do know is that this occurs around 1 – 3 years. The child begins to know her own name and refer to herself by name. The child will begin to look in the mirror and realize she is looking at herself. She will also make clearer her own likes and dislikes, needs and wishes.
frag420 wrote: » Sounds like someone needs a big hug!! Sending one your way right.....NOW!!! Feel better now? And I'm far from angry, I'm very chilled out right about now due to some very liberal drug laws!!
mariaalice wrote: » I know it a subject people feel passionate about on boards ( and in real life ) but on boards why does it attract so many self righteous nasty people and its both sides.
infogiver wrote: » If you need narcotics to help you to cope with your life on a Monday afternoon in springtime then its most definitely you that needs the hug! But thanks anyway!
Samaris wrote: » Well, it's a pretty common reason to be swayed by something. She was suddenly affected, she suddenly had the cold pit of fear that something had gone wrong, she reacted feeling the panic and alarm that other women feel. Maybe she just felt afterwards "Well, if I felt like that, maybe women getting abortions aren't just doing it like they're buying a carton of milk..maybe I should look into this more."
Samaris wrote: » It's not an unreasonable progression, although yes, it was sparked off by suddenly being placed into that position. And yes, obviously I'm placing emotional reactions on her, but not unreasonable ones from the original post.
Samaris wrote: » My issue with all the panicked sounds about (AOD?) up-to-delivery-date abortions is that it's all a bit hypothetical. If someone needs an urgent abortion at say, eight months (around then and after that tends to be the delivery of an emergency LIVE birth by C-section or something along those lines*.), it is almost certainly urgent enough not to be for the hell of it. If someone is in the position of needing an urgent abortion to save their live/prevent damage, then what on earth are we all doing putting blocks in their way?
Say what you like, we all know what the most likely procedure needed was in Mrs. Hallapanavar's case, as much as people can shout about improper monitoring (which also contributed, but she seems to have been in that position because the proper procedure was being denied).
Late abortions are very, very rarely carried out for sh*ts and giggles. Late abortions are carried out because something has gone badly wrong. Women are also rational actors - why would we choose to undergo a difficult, painful, debilitating procedure at eight months rather than a far easier one prior to 12 weeks, unless something serious had happened in the meantime? I won't say it would -never- happen, because human beings can do some remarkably strange things, but it is quite unlikely compared to the far more common scenarios. Late-term abortions are, for the most part, a red herring that detracts from the essential debate.
*And will someone please explain to me what a day-before-delivery abortion looks like? I strongly suspect it looks like a live birth.
Game Face MCGee wrote: » I really can't get my head around this whole debate. I've no religious affiliation and I'm a father of 3... I just cant shake it, and when people "celebrate" and are "overjoyed" about getting closer to legal abortion I just feel upset and think "how can you be so happy about this" not sure if I'm in the minority on this??
blanch152 wrote: » Yes, there most certainly is an element of hubris in the Repeal the 8th movement, just like there was in the same-sex marriage campaign. It does go over-the-top with the "celebrate" and "overjoyed". That disappoints, sickens and saddens me too. However, that doesn't mean their message is wrong. Like you, I am a father of 3. I will be voting to replace the 8th Amendment. It is a very stupid amendment which has caused huge problems both legally and socially. The sooner it is gone, the better. What should replace it? That is a matter for the Oireachtas to decide.
infogiver wrote: » I always wanted a referendum. I'm almost fanatically democratic and passionate that matters of grave importance should be put before the people. If it doesn't go the way I voted, so be it, but let the people have their say.
professore wrote: » https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/570040/Updated_Abortion_Statistics_2015.pdf 1.5% of abortions in England and Wales - culturally very similar to ourselves - were 20 weeks and over. There were 191014 in total so that makes 2865 late term abortions. If we take 5000 as the number of Irish abortions often touted, this would equate to 75 late term abortions. So a small but not insignificant number. I don't have the stomach to look at the links but they are there if you want to see. I'm sure the pro lifers will have a poster on every lamppost in the country soon.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_termination_of_pregnancy#Methods There are at least three medical procedures associated with late-term abortions: Dilation and evacuation (D&E) Early labor induction (sometimes called "induction abortion") Intact dilation and extraction (IDX or D&X), sometimes referred to as "partial-birth abortion"
Abortions where gestation is 24 weeks or over account for 0.1% of the total. There were 230 such abortions in 2015 (Table 5 and Table 9a).
professore wrote: » I agree except I think it should be replaced by clearly defined laws similar to the German ones which we can all vote Yes or No to in a referendum. Not let the Oireachtas decide. Why? The same reason the Oireachtas didn't get to decide when a gay marriage was valid or not - because they would have made some crappy compromise that no-one would be happy with.
blanch152 wrote: » In this case, a crappy compromise that no-one would be 100% happy with may actually be the best option as there is very little middle-ground.
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