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NBP: National Broadband Plan Announced

ED E

They've published!

The government has published a new map outlining in detail 700,000 rural homes and businesses which will be connected to state-subsidised broadband of at least 30 megabits per second (Mbs) from 2016.

http://www.independent.ie/business/technology/news/revealed-700000-homes-and-businesses-to-get-subsidised-fast-broadband-in-new-plan-30769126.html

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AidenL

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

If you have FTTC then probably you already have 30Mb/s or greater down, so there would be no requirement for FTTH

No, I don't have FTTC, I communicated that badly - there's FTTC in the town, and to some houses out my road, and the blue lines pass them, on Eirs map, and the houses which the Blue lines pass are highlighted amber, and they currently have no fibre connection though.

So then even further out, the light blue circles appear. So I'm assuming they will be FTTH, but the amber circles may not be, as someone said earlier that it might just be 30 down and 6 upload.

So what I was wondering is, will that be the default for the amber circles, so the further out of town you are, the better the chance of obtaining higher speed?

user1842

Persiancowboy wrote: »

The Dept was damned if it did and damned if it didn't.

If it had refused to accept eir's commitment to connect the areas/properties in question, then it was leaving itself wide open to a State Aid issue with DG Competition in Brussels.

By accepting yet another of eir's endless promises of action, it runs the risk of (a) eir yet again reneging on promised investment and (b) one or both of the remaining bidders walking away as the map has now undergone significant change and a potential contract under the NBP no longer being attractive or financially viable.

Meanwhile in Heuston Square, the champagne corks are no doubt popping both as a result of the map change and the increased value of the company in the IPO stakes (which remains of course the management's ultimate goal)

I know but it is highly frustrating as this was only done by EIR to frustrate the other bidders and to cement them as the only possible winner.

It really is a joke. Looking at the map, EIR cannot physically connect all the blue dots in less than two years with 90% FTTH.

I really think DG-Competition would also see through this bullsh#*t. The Government should just grow a pair of "you know what".

Johnboy1951

AidenL wrote: »

Mine is amber too, but there are light blue houses further past my house from the town.

Does this mean that houses further away might actually get connected first under Eirs rollout, and house like mine closer to the town (which already has FTTC) might not be connected until the NBP rollout, which will be slow and dragged out.

Seems nutz to me !

If you have FTTC then probably you already have 30Mb/s or greater down, so there would be no requirement for FTTH

AidenL

frozenfrozen wrote: »

nice to see my house is marked amber now anyway

Mine is amber too, but there are light blue houses further past my house from the town.

Does this mean that houses further away might actually get connected first under Eirs rollout, and house like mine closer to the town (which already has FTTC) might not be connected until the NBP rollout, which will be slow and dragged out.

Seems nutz to me !

Persiancowboy

The Dept was damned if it did and damned if it didn't.

If it had refused to accept eir's commitment to connect the areas/properties in question, then it was leaving itself wide open to a State Aid issue with DG Competition in Brussels.

By accepting yet another of eir's endless promises of action, it runs the risk of (a) eir yet again reneging on promised investment and (b) one or both of the remaining bidders walking away as the map has now undergone significant change and a potential contract under the NBP no longer being attractive or financially viable.

Meanwhile in Heuston Square, the champagne corks are no doubt popping both as a result of the map change and the increased value of the company in the IPO stakes (which remains of course the management's ultimate goal)

frozenfrozen

nice to see my house is marked amber now anyway

user1842

Eir deal agreed:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0404/865085-cabiner-broadband/

"It also guarantees that all the 300,000 premises will have a minimum download speed of 30Mbps and 6Mbps upload" :eek:

If 90% are going to be FTTH, why even state the above unless they are really going to stretch the VDSL for the other 10%.

Map now seems also to be updated with blue dots for houses that EIR will connect:

http://www.dccae.gov.ie/en-ie/communications/topics/Broadband/national-broadband-plan/high-speed-broadband-map/Pages/Interactive-Map.aspx

I think the Government is 100% delusional if they think Eir will connect all of theses houses by 2018.

Johnboy1951

plodder wrote: »

Yes, the devil is in the details. I can't see any reason why not to publish the contract. So, hopefully we get to see it soon.

I read in one of the linked articles that after the cabinet has discussed the contract it will be published.

We can only hope that article was correct and we get to see the details soon.

damienirel

BandMember wrote: »

Just happened to catch the end of the technology section on Pat Kenny this morning. They were reading out the readers comments and one in particular caught my attention: "x in Donegal says why are they wasting all this money on bringing fibre to rural Ireland? I've had Digiweb for the past 15 years and it works perfect for me. Surely satelitte broadband is the way to go?".

I honestly didn't know whether to laugh or cry......

Probably a sales rep. for Digiweb. Trust no one.

BandMember

Just happened to catch the end of the technology section on Pat Kenny this morning. They were reading out the readers comments and one in particular caught my attention: "x in Donegal says why are they wasting all this money on bringing fibre to rural Ireland? I've had Digiweb for the past 15 years and it works perfect for me. Surely satelitte broadband is the way to go?".

I honestly didn't know whether to laugh or cry......

plodder

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Yes it was ...... did it give details of the circumstances under which that could be applied?
Nope.
No details so everything is speculation for the moment.

Yeah everything in print and on the internet is the whole truth.

Lets see the details of the contract before we make judgements.

Yes, the devil is in the details. I can't see any reason why not to publish the contract. So, hopefully we get to see it soon.

Johnboy1951

plodder wrote: »

The €20 million fine was in one of the IT articles though.

Yes it was ...... did it give details of the circumstances under which that could be applied?
Nope.
No details so everything is speculation for the moment.

There must be something to it.

Yeah everything in print and on the internet is the whole truth.

Lets see the details of the contract before we make judgements.

damienirel

I don't see how they won't be challenged - they are one of the Bidders in the NBP so taking the 300k low hanging fruit before it goes to tender. And the government amending NBP maps to suit this 300k - all seems like a recipe for disaster. I can see the NBP to be in a shambles after this, I lived in hope that common sense would prevail and the 3 separate bidders would be given a level playing field to avoid legal challenges and hold ups. I predict this to entangle all sorts of legal challenges due to the money at stake and the political pressure on getting a reasonable broadband service to Irish people, it's as if the government are looking for a crisis before they do anything??

plodder

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

As we don't have any definite details on the contract as yet we cannot be sure that what you post is fact ..... but most is likely I suppose.

I see no real purpose is speculating without the contract details, TBH.
Hopefully by tomorrow those details will be available.

The €20 million fine was in one of the IT articles though. There must be something to it.

Johnboy1951

plodder wrote: »

I suppose the worst case, most pessimistic scenario is that they just suck up the €20 million fine for being late, which is peanuts in terms of overall value. There really should be recurring fines for every month they are late beyond the end of 2018. The whole basis of the NBP is now that these areas are served before it gets going. If that means that Eir only have the resources to deliver one chunk of the NBP then so be it. They can't be allowed to deliver both NBP and the 300K in parallel. I could see that being the basis for a challenge.

As we don't have any definite details on the contract as yet we cannot be sure that what you post is fact ..... but most is likely I suppose.

I see no real purpose is speculating without the contract details, TBH.
Hopefully by tomorrow those details will be available.

damienirel

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

The full terms of the eir commitment contract will make an interesting read.
I can only hope that the gov has eir tied very tightly to their commitment, and suitable penalties if they fail at each stage of their commitment.

We wait for the publishing of the contract.

I can predict it to be a depressing/boring read

As in nothing to see here - we're doing as little as possible to speed up the rollout.

plodder

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

The full terms of the eir commitment contract will make an interesting read.
I can only hope that the gov has eir tied very tightly to their commitment, and suitable penalties if they fail at each stage of their commitment.

We wait for the publishing of the contract.

I suppose the worst case, most pessimistic scenario is that they just suck up the €20 million fine for being late, which is peanuts in terms of overall value. There really should be recurring fines for every month they are late beyond the end of 2018. The whole basis of the NBP is now that these areas are served before it gets going. If that means that Eir only have the resources to deliver one chunk of the NBP then so be it. They can't be allowed to deliver both NBP and the 300K in parallel. I could see that being the basis for a challenge.

Johnboy1951

The full terms of the eir commitment contract will make an interesting read.
I can only hope that the gov has eir tied very tightly to their commitment, and suitable penalties if they fail at each stage of their commitment.

We wait for the publishing of the contract.

[Deleted User]

damienirel wrote: »

After all the talk of "years of planning"- it looks like the government and dept. went out on the lash instead.
The tender will be pushed out even further with legal problems and Dennis Naughton and his ilk can pass the the parcel to the next bunch of clowns that get elected to "fixsh the roads".

To be fair though there isn't really much they can do when Eir is claiming they are "committed" to doing 300,000 homes commercially. EU rules and Eir have ****ed us here I'm afraid. As soon as Eir decided it wanted to **** around with it and snatch so many key areas all the years of planning gets thrown out.

Looks like we could potentially be stuck with Imagine being our best option for way too long now (for those still in the NBP).

damienirel

After all the talk of "years of planning"- it looks like the government and dept. went out on the lash instead.
The tender will be pushed out even further with legal problems and Dennis Naughton and his ilk can pass the the parcel to the next bunch of clowns that get elected to "fixsh the roads".

plodder

KOR101 wrote: »

A maximum fine of €20m for God's sake.

Seems low all right. I'd have other concerns as well. What criteria will be used? Homes passed or live connections? It should be actual connections, or else they will concentrate on rolling out the network, to suit the NBP. Then again, connections seem to be the trickiest and most time-consuming aspect of the whole thing.

KOR101

plodder wrote: »

It's up to Eir to prove that wrong now and of course on how solid the agreement between the government and Eir is, and if it has real teeth/penalties as regards non-performance.

A maximum fine of €20m for God's sake.

KOR101

There were also these articles....

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/last-links-to-rural-ireland-now-more-expensive-35591536.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/government-risks-legal-action-over-broadband-plan-1.3035528

plodder

rob808 wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/business/technology/broadband-rollout-cut-means-rural-areas-face-more-delays-35591537.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/changes-to-state-broadband-scheme-may-bring-legal-challenge-1.3035489

As regards legal action, I think what is very much in Eir's favour is that they have been more ambitious than Siro in their deployment plans for commercial rural broadband. There was nothing to stop Siro from rolling out a similar network to the Openeir one. If it happens that Eir has a more extensive network to base the NBP on when it comes to awarding the contract, that's hardly Eir's problem.

What works against them is the slow progress towards implementing the plans and doubtless their competitors will argue it was a land-grab whose intention was never achievable (in the stated timescales at least). It's up to Eir to prove that wrong now and of course on how solid the agreement between the government and Eir is, and if it has real teeth/penalties as regards non-performance.

The Cush

On Morning Ireland now, "Minister to announce details of the NBP later today".

rob808

http://www.independent.ie/business/technology/broadband-rollout-cut-means-rural-areas-face-more-delays-35591537.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/changes-to-state-broadband-scheme-may-bring-legal-challenge-1.3035489

ED E

rob808 wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/government-set-to-release-final-broadband-intervention-map-1.3034091?mode=amp

Sub required. Non mobile link:
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/government-set-to-release-final-broadband-intervention-map-1.3034091?

rob808

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/government-set-to-release-final-broadband-intervention-map-1.3034091?mode=amp

Johnboy1951

KOR101 wrote: »

Does anyone know how commitment contracts work. I assume they can't be open ended in terms of completion date. Are their financial penalties if commitments are not met? How real are they in practice?

The contract is as agreed between eir and the gov ....... I have not seen any info about what might be in the terms of that contract.

kevinbad2010

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I wonder if there is a EU requirement, that having selecting the short list of three, that there must be bids received from all three, else a substitute must be found?

Only wondering about it .......

No EU requirement other than, allowing the contract to be available to all EU businesses and not to just favor Irish ones.