RIP Martin McGuinness

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Just because you can't see it, doesn't mean anything.

Did you see the funeral yesterday and the cross section of people who came to pay tribute to McGuinness?

I'd say the answer to your 'for what?' was inside that church if you cared to look past your prejudices.

Maybe the church will make him a saint. Little hope for the majority of ordinary decent people then, if one has to be a real bad ass to get people to pay tribute. Airbrush out the past.

Junkyard Tom

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Fight back, to die.... For what? Bombs, murder and terrorism., where nobody wins.

Cap'n Hindsight. These young people were drawn into a conflict not of their making. I actually feel some pity for a lot of British soldiers that were sent there too - a load of gormless young fellas sent to a warzone to uphold a rotten little Orange statelet - many were victims of the troubles too.

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Go to war? You mean terrorism, where innocent people mostly get killed.

I will never accept that all the murders and strife that happened were necessary to achieve a peace.

I couldn't really care less what you will never accept. I would imagine you sat on your hands 'accepting' the discrimination and sectarian state operating for decades too or would have.

I am also pretty sure those on the receiving end in a war view the other side as terrorists. So enough with the pointless, meaningless terminology.

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Maybe the church will make him a saint. Little hope for the majority of ordinary decent people then, if one has to be a real bad ass to get people to pay tribute. Airbrush out the past.

There were thousands of ordinary decent people inside and outside the church and watching around the world. And not one person there airbrushed out a thing.
The person who cannot see what an achievement it was to have all those disparate people together under one roof paying their tributes is doing a bit of airbrushing though.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I couldn't really care less what you will never accept. I would imagine you sat on your hands 'accepting' the discrimination and sectarian state operating for decades too or would have.

I am also pretty sure those on the receiving end in a war view the other side as terrorists. So enough with the pointless, meaningless terminology.

And I could not care less what you accept either. I have my opinion you have yours.

Mr.Micro wrote: »

And I could not care less what you accept either. I have my opinion you have yours.

And good luck with that.

DanielODonnell

On the daily mail website republican comments get removed but comments like "i wish michael stone was at the funeral" are allowed to stay. These are the people Clinton tells us to "reach out to"

Alf Stewart.

Mr.Micro wrote: »

And I could not care less what you accept either. I have my opinion you have yours.

Did you live in the North during the troubles and experience the inequalities first hand?

I did.

Unless you did too, i reserve the right to not put much faith into your opinion either way.

Alf Stewart. wrote: »

Did you live in the North during the troubles and experience the inequalities first hand?

I did.

Unless you did too, i reserve the right to not put much faith into your opinion either way.

You might be surprised to learn that people are allowed and often do hold an opinion contrary to yours or mine.

Alf Stewart.

Mr.Micro wrote: »

You might be surprised to learn that people are allowed and often do hold an opinion contrary to yours or mine.

I never said you weren't allowed one. I said I wouldn't put much faith into your opinion on something you had no experience with.

DanielODonnell wrote: »

On the daily mail website republican comments get removed but comments like "i wish michael stone was at the funeral" are allowed to stay. These are the people Clinton tells us to "reach out to"

As you can see in micro detail here, there is no point reaching out to closed minds.

What Arlene was brave enough to do yesterday may be a sign of hope though, that the clenched fist is opening.
To my own dying day the reception she got for that simple decent gesture will make me proud of my community.

Jayop wrote: »

Must be nice in that ivory tower.

Aye, the Welsh and Scottish economies are doing so well under British rule without the troubles. Even Northern England is just flying at the moment. Real economic juggernauts.

Jayop, I'm not saying they would of done a good job just that using NI as an example of how the British operate economically is flawed.

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Even if we pretend that there was never any conflict or Irish nationalism and the British had ran the economy consider modern Scotland. Now Scotland is of strategic importance to Britain, has quite a lot of good jobs from the oil and gas industry in the North Sea, it has shipbuilding for the British Navy, it has submarine bases and nuclear power stations.

Do you think Ireland would have fared better than Scotland? Not a hope. We'd be a much poorer version of it with agriculture as our principle resource while Britain would drain our universities of any talent.

As I said to Jayop, NI isn't a good indicator due to terrorism obviously influencing their lack of economic growth.

Junkyard Tom

jh79 wrote: »

As I said to Jayop, NI isn't a good indicator due to terrorism obviously influencing their lack of economic growth.

Huh? I didn't mention the north. I was referring to Scotland's current economic position and postulating on what ours might have been in comparison.

DanielODonnell wrote: »

On the daily mail website republican comments get removed but comments like "i wish michael stone was at the funeral" are allowed to stay. These are the people Clinton tells us to "reach out to"

Gerry Adams said we need to reach out to them too. Small things on top of small things. Show respect when it's possible and don't disrespect them. However don't allow yourself or others to suffer discrimination.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

As you can see in micro detail here, there is no point reaching out to closed minds.

What Arlene was brave enough to do yesterday may be a sign of hope though, that the clenched fist is opening.
To my own dying day the reception she got for that simple decent gesture will make me proud of my community.

Small things, over and over. These people are dying out and with small gestures of friendship the majority of the next generation will not be as bigoted.

jh79 wrote: »

Jayop, I'm not saying they would of done a good job just that using NI as an example of how the British operate economically is flawed.

jh79 wrote: »

As I said to Jayop, NI isn't a good indicator due to terrorism obviously influencing their lack of economic growth.

NI isn't, you're right because of the armed conflict. You can say terrorism and I'll say as much state sponsored terrorism.

However, Northern England, Wales and Scotland are fine indicators of how London treats the other members of their Union financially with no armed conflict. How they treated them was and is with utter disdain and callousness.

Junkyard Tom

Jayop wrote: »

NI isn't, you're right because of the armed conflict.

The north's economy was on the wane before the troubles. It'd be interesting to know how much the troubles actually stabilised the north's economy. The British pumped billions in and lots of well-paying jobs were created in the security industry.

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Huh? I didn't mention the north. I was referring to Scotland's current economic position and postulating on what ours might have been in comparison.

Ok sound.

Jayop wrote: »

NI isn't, you're right because of the armed conflict. You can say terrorism and I'll say as much state sponsored terrorism.

However, Northern England, Wales and Scotland are fine indicators of how London treats the other members of their Union financially with no armed conflict. How they treated them was and is with utter disdain and callousness.

I'd call it terrorism but i am mindful that that judgement was made in my comfy armchair down in the South watching it all on tv .

I wouldn't feel comfortable debating that with you as i didn't experience it so to speak. We all like to think we would channel our inner Ghandi , but until you experience it there is no telling how you might react.

TBH i know nothing on the Welsh and Scottish economies but yes they are better indicators than NI.

steddyeddy

Mr.Micro wrote: »

The economy in NI is, as you say held together by subsidies. So is not a typical economy that can be compared to our economy or the British economy.

That's a ridiculous ascertation. You van compare any economy and theirs is woeful.

jh79 wrote: »

I'd call it terrorism but i am mindful that that judgement was made in my comfy armchair down in the South watching it all on tv .

I wouldn't feel comfortable debating that with you as i didn't experience it so to speak. We all like to think we would channel our inner Ghandi , but until you experience it there is no telling how you might react.

TBH i know nothing on the Welsh and Scottish economies but yes they are better indicators than NI.

You'd call it 'terrorism' but you are 'mindful'.

I am sorry but you aren't being mindful at all. You are having your mind made up though.

All sides in a conflict/war use terror and by definition are 'terrorists'. It is a redundant and useless term and only indicates what side you are on if you only apply it to one side.

timthumbni

Loved the sf branding on show. Why waste a good funeral ehh? Was waiting on Gerry advising everyone watching to visit www. Sf.com to buy exclusive Marty key rings. Target audience idiotic Irish Americans especially welcome.

And as for the mcguinness was not a terrorist but a freedom fighter fantasy I almost smiled when I heard that. Nice going Gerry. You'll have unionists eating out of your hand with that guff. Long live Gerry I say...

timthumbni wrote: »

Loved the sf branding on show. Why waste a good funeral ehh? Was waiting on Gerry advising everyone watching to visit www. Sf.com to buy exclusive Marty key rings. Target audience idiotic Irish Americans especially welcome.

And as for the mcguinness was not a terrorist but a freedom fighter fantasy I almost smiled when I heard that. Nice going Gerry. You'll have unionists eating out of your hand with that guff. Long live Gerry I say...

What about Arlene, were you happy she went?
Was she sincere or just succumbing to pressure?

*good to see Mr Micro has found an opinion he/she likes. Wouldn't like anyone out in the cold.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You'd call it 'terrorism' but you are 'mindful'.

I am sorry but you aren't being mindful at all. You are having your mind made up though.

All sides in a conflict/war use terror and by definition are 'terrorists'. It is a redundant and useless term and only indicates what side you are on if you only apply it to one side.

TBF he didn't apply it to one side. Maybe that was his intention but I'd reserve judgment unless he confirmed. At least he had the self awareness to understand it is easy to say one thing and not fully understand it from the comfort f safety.

timthumbni wrote: »

Loved the sf branding on show. Why waste a good funeral ehh? Was waiting on Gerry advising everyone watching to visit www. Sf.com to buy exclusive Marty key rings. Target audience idiotic Irish Americans especially welcome.

And as for the mcguinness was not a terrorist but a freedom fighter fantasy I almost smiled when I heard that. Nice going Gerry. You'll have unionists eating out of your hand with that guff. Long live Gerry I say...

Nice to pick that part out and not the more relevant parts about reach across, making friends, doing nothing to disrespect unionists, providing gestures of kindness. You know the stuff that actually mattered in the speech.

timthumbni

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What about Arlene, were you happy she went?
Was she sincere or just succumbing to pressure?

*good to see Mr Micro has found an opinion he/she likes. Wouldn't like anyone out in the cold.

Wasn't overly concerned about Arlene going one way or the other. Considering her own very personal traumas caused by the IRA not once, but twice then I certainly wouldn't have blamed her for not going.

Re sincere It would seem so. She would have had a lot of pressure not to attend I'm sure, so the fact she did go seems genuine.

Certainly more genuine than www.gerry.com turning the graveside oration into some sort of weird live party political broadcast.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You'd call it 'terrorism' but you are 'mindful'.

I am sorry but you aren't being mindful at all. You are having your mind made up though.

All sides in a conflict/war use terror and by definition are 'terrorists'. It is a redundant and useless term and only indicates what side you are on if you only apply it to one side.

So what term apllies to the Real IRA? I'm not on their side either , can I call them terrorists ? Dissident seems a bit soft for what they have done.

timthumbni

Jayop wrote: »

Nice to pick that part out and not the more relevant parts about reach across, making friends, doing nothing to disrespect unionists, providing gestures of kindness. You know the stuff that actually mattered in the speech.

Sorry, but saying positive things then more or less the equivalent of singing ooh ahh up the ra yeohhhhh to please the more simpleton types in the crowd is just plain weird. Why did he even bother? I genuinely hope that Adams sticks around for a lot longer as he seems to drop himself in it every time he opens his gnashers to speak.

timthumbni wrote: »

Sorry, but saying positive things then more or less the equivalent of singing ooh ahh up the ra yeohhhhh to please the more simpleton types in the crowd is just plain weird. Why did he even bother? I genuinely hope that Adams sticks around for a lot longer as he seems to drop himself in it every time he opens his gnashers to speak.

Yeah Adams is really holding them back. That must be why they're doing so badly in both areas. :rolleyes:

Esel

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The conflict/war in it's entirety?

As it is relevant to McGuinness's death and a reaction to the diet being fed by RTE and our other upstanding impartial media outlets, maybe start with this.

https://medium.com/@hiredknave/facts-an-obituary-f1c0d76f1cb3#.ee58jrxng

I have to say here and now, knowing how the conflict/war progressed and having lived through most of it as a teenager and adult, the facts presented here relating to the period towards the end of the conflict/war from 1990 took me by surprise, so much so I had to verify them.
You can always learn if you have an open mind.

That link is an amazing, enlightening analysis.