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RIP Martin McGuinness

thee glitz

Former Deputy First Minister of NI Martin McGuinness has died. May he RIP.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0321/861287-martin-mcguinness-death/

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Junkyard Tom

LordSutch wrote: »

Not sure Arlene would want to go to his funeral after what her family (& her school) went through at the hands of the PIRA.

Not sure the people of the Bogside would want her there considering what they were put through by people like those in Arlene's family/community who joined the UDR/RUC and goodness knows what else.

See how that works?

LordSutch

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I couldn't give a damn if Arlene Frosty goes and MMcG's family probably couldn't care less either. Let her stay away.

Not sure Arlene would want to go to his funeral after what her family (& her school) went through at the hands of the PIRA. On the other hand she may well attend as a mark of respect for the politician she grew to know in recent years at the Assembly.

steddyeddy

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I wonder will the Daily Mail describe the soldiers who shot dead the unarmed people in Derry in the same way when they eventually die?

I'll bet the house they won't.

"All Irish are backward" was one lovely comment from our neighbours across the water.

Says a Daily Mail reader.

FrancieBrady

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I wonder will the Daily Mail describe the soldiers who shot dead the unarmed people in Derry in the same way when they eventually die?

I'll bet the house they won't.

"All Irish are backward" was one lovely comment from our neighbours across the water.

Indeed, if they need something to blame for the implosion of the kingdom they need look no further than decades of a Daily Mail and other tabloids diet.

Galwayguy35

I wonder will the Daily Mail describe the soldiers who shot dead the unarmed people in Derry in the same way when they eventually die?

I'll bet the house they won't.

"All Irish are backward" was one lovely comment from our neighbours across the water.

lawred2

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

lawred2 wrote: »

how original

what is?

The Daily Fail

steddyeddy

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Gosh, I didn't know you had such a hard job. I hope they pay you well!

Not really man but I survive.

nacho libre

I just found out he liked Cricket. How can anyone like this awful sport?
But seriously Jonathan Powell did an interesting piece about him on Newsnight.

Blair and George Mitchell had interesting insights into his character also.

FrancieBrady

steddyeddy wrote: »

As a scientist I have to write press releases for the general public. I'm told that they should be accessible to everyone. The guideline they give me is genuinely "write it so a 9 year old or Daily Mail reader will understand it".

Gosh, I didn't know you had such a hard job. I hope they pay you well!

steddyeddy

timthumbni wrote: »

Well as I said this was in the mail , one of the most read newspapers and news websites in the U.K.

As a scientist I have to write press releases for the general public. I'm told that they should be accessible to everyone. The guideline they give me is genuinely "write it so a 9 year old or Daily Mail reader will understand it".

steddyeddy

timthumbni wrote: »

The mail in the U.K. Has a 6 page spread on mcguinness today. Rightly highlights a lot of the shameful antics he was involved in directly and supported. As I said earlier no one should have to be thanked just because they decided that bombing and shooting people wasn't going anywhere.

They had a great article on the Loch Ness Monster a while back. You also can't beat their celebrity fashion articles.

Anyway I better deal with your point. It may be beyond the scope of Mail reader but here goes. McGuinness isn't being remembered because he stopped using violence. He is being remembered because he convinced the majority of republicans to drop violence in favor of the ballot.

In the words of Trimble recently "you reached out to the unionist community in a way many of them didn't reach out to you". In other words he tried to bridge communities in Northern Ireland and made the Island of Ireland a better place for everyone.

osarusan

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

If she goes she goes if she doesn't who cares.

Lets not kid ourselves that her absence wouldn't be ammunition for her critics.

She has to go, for professional reasons. Politics has plenty of moments where you do stuff meet people you would rather not - this is one of them.

For personal reasons, given the IRA shot and wounded her father, and also bombed her school bus (while she was on it) I can see why it isn't an appealing prospect for her.

Alf Stewart.

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

This.

It isn't about her. Stop giving her so much attention.

If she goes she goes if she doesn't who cares.

It's a sticky wicket tbh, her not attending would be akin to a Taoiseach not attending a Tainsate's (past or present) funeral here.

It's on a professional level she should be attending, on a personal level, I'm sure there's few (least off all the McGuinness family) will give a dam whether or not she attends.

My gut feeling is she will go, but no loss if she doesn't.

I think one thing would have been certain though had the scenario been reversed, McGuinness would have attended hers.

Wheeliebin30

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I couldn't give a damn if Arlene Frosty goes and MMcG's family probably couldn't care less either. Let her stay away.

This.

It isn't about her. Stop giving her so much attention.

If she goes she goes if she doesn't who cares.

Junkyard Tom

I couldn't give a damn if Arlene Frosty goes and MMcG's family probably couldn't care less either. Let her stay away.

FrancieBrady

Lucy8080 wrote: »

It could be that she was always going. I'm speculating, but I reckon it was probably wise to say nothing . In the last twenty -four hours the media has been filled with praise and damnation as people were asked for their views.

If Foster announced yesterday that she was attending, I would say a lot of vitriol would have come her way. If she announces tonight, or in the morning that she is attending, it will be easier for some in the unionist community to accept it, in the light of knowing who else is attending.

It will look more like an honouring of the peace process ,with all sides represented . The new dispensation ,rather than the old.It's understandable,I think, that the D.U.P. would handle this carefully in regards to the sensitivities to their own community.

I agree that could be the case. But recent history, very recent, makes me wonder.
We will see I suppose.

ohnonotgmail

lawred2 wrote: »

how original

what is?

lawred2

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Looking at the front pages of the daily mail in the UK and Ireland tells you all you need to know about that tabloid

Ireland

UK

how original

ohnonotgmail

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Where exactly does he say so ? Or do you think that when people mention the atrocities he is responsible for it's only because they think the British weren't the bad guys ? It seems to be the standard response, so I'm just wondering.

Or is it more the fact you think his past actions should be glossed over just because he later decided to use peaceful means ?

Nobody is glossing over his past. He wouldnt be the first to realise that violence does not achieve political ends. His efforts to bring peace to northern ireland will be his legacy.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I don't think any part of his life should be 'glossed' over nor should his life be split into two halves.
Peaceful people have gone to war for the greater good many many times in history.
Judge for yourself if what we have in the north now is a 'greater good' than when McGuinness first involved himself.

I am a long time reader of Tim's posts. I know very well what his shtick is.

For once i find myself in complete agreement with you. I think i'll go for a lie down.

Lucy8080

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I posted last night wondering why they couldn't have avoided damage by saying straight away that she would attend.
They seem incapable of not damaging themselves in the wider public eye or they don't care.
This is just ramping up the longer it goes on and it will look like she capitulated to pressure now if she does go.

It could be that she was always going. I'm speculating, but I reckon it was probably wise to say nothing . In the last twenty -four hours the media has been filled with praise and damnation as people were asked for their views.

If Foster announced yesterday that she was attending, I would say a lot of vitriol would have come her way. If she announces tonight, or in the morning that she is attending, it will be easier for some in the unionist community to accept it, in the light of knowing who else is attending.

It will look more like an honouring of the peace process ,with all sides represented . The new dispensation ,rather than the old.It's understandable,I think, that the D.U.P. would handle this carefully in regards to the sensitivities of their own community.

lawred2

Alf Stewart. wrote: »

It would be political suicide not to imo.

surely she's afraid of the crocodiles

FrancieBrady

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Where exactly does he say so ? Or do you think that when people mention the atrocities he is responsible for it's only because they think the British weren't the bad guys ? It seems to be the standard response, so I'm just wondering.

Or is it more the fact you think his past actions should be glossed over just because he later decided to use peaceful means ?

I don't think any part of his life should be 'glossed' over nor should his life be split into two halves.
Peaceful people have gone to war for the greater good many many times in history.
Judge for yourself if what we have in the north now is a 'greater good' than when McGuinness first involved himself.

I am a long time reader of Tim's posts. I know very well what his shtick is.

ohnonotgmail

timthumbni wrote: »

Well as I said this was in the mail , one of the most read newspapers and news websites in the U.K.

Looking at the front pages of the daily mail in the UK and Ireland tells you all you need to know about that tabloid

Ireland

Jelle1880

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I think your 'there was only one side engaged in the conflict' nonsense has an audience of one believer - yourself.

Do yourself a favour and read what the GFA sorted out and you will get an idea of the extent of the problems that led to the conflict/war.

Where exactly does he say so ? Or do you think that when people mention the atrocities he is responsible for it's only because they think the British weren't the bad guys ? It seems to be the standard response, so I'm just wondering.

Or is it more the fact you think his past actions should be glossed over just because he later decided to use peaceful means ?

Mr.Micro

bigbrotherfan wrote: »

Clinton & Blair are hugely significant attendees.

I don't think so. Would anyone want Blair anywhere near them, dead of alive. He has more blood on him than the whole of the IRA.

timthumbni

FrancieBrady wrote: »

timthumbni wrote: »

The mail in the U.K. Has a 6 page spread on mcguinness today. Rightly highlights a lot of the shameful antics he was involved in directly and supported. As I said earlier no one should have to be thanked just because they decided that bombing and shooting people wasn't going anywhere.

I think your 'there was only one side engaged in the conflict' nonsense has an audience of one believer - yourself.

Do yourself a favour and read what the GFA sorted out and you will get an idea of the extent of the problems that led to the conflict/war.

Well as I said this was in the mail , one of the most read newspapers and news websites in the U.K.

timthumbni

FrancieBrady wrote: »

timthumbni wrote: »

The mail in the U.K. Has a 6 page spread on mcguinness today. Rightly highlights a lot of the shameful antics he was involved in directly and supported. As I said earlier no one should have to be thanked just because they decided that bombing and shooting people wasn't going anywhere.

I think your 'there was only one side engaged in the conflict' nonsense has an audience of one believer - yourself.

Do yourself a favour and read what the GFA sorted out and you will get an idea of the extent of the problems that led to the conflict/war.

Well as I said this was in the mail , one of the most read newspapers and news websites in the U.K.

dinorebel

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I posted last night wondering why they couldn't have avoided damage by saying straight away that she would attend.
They seem incapable of not damaging themselves in the wider public eye or they don't care.
This is just ramping up the longer it goes on and it will look like she capitulated to pressure now if she does go.

Am no supporter by a long shot but her base vote will be disgusted if she attends and the general population will be appalled if she doesn't.

It's perversely enjoyable watching her squirm though.

FrancieBrady

timthumbni wrote: »

The mail in the U.K. Has a 6 page spread on mcguinness today. Rightly highlights a lot of the shameful antics he was involved in directly and supported. As I said earlier no one should have to be thanked just because they decided that bombing and shooting people wasn't going anywhere.

I think your 'there was only one side engaged in the conflict' nonsense has an audience of one believer - yourself.

Do yourself a favour and read what the GFA sorted out and you will get an idea of the extent of the problems that led to the conflict/war.

timthumbni

The mail in the U.K. Has a 6 page spread on mcguinness today. Rightly highlights a lot of the shameful antics he was involved in directly and supported. As I said earlier no one should have to be thanked just because they decided that bombing and shooting people wasn't going anywhere.