Parapara2017 wrote: » From what I hear from talking to those in the emergency services, and listening to interviews, they would rather be called and not needed than needed and not called. I like to think that's how the crew felt as well, and from watching the various interviews with Cpt Fitzpatrick, it certainly seems that way.
irishgeo wrote: » so we know the aircraft hit the rocks. What we still dont know is why?
We know that parts of the craft may have come into contact with the rocks but has it been confirmed that those parts were still attached to the craft at time of impact?
Gadgetman496 wrote: » Do we though? We know that parts of the craft may have come into contact with the rocks but has it been confirmed that those parts were still attached to the craft at time of impact?
skallywag wrote: » At the risk of stating the obvious it is not possible to definitively know why this happened until the investigation has been completed. At the bare minimum the flight recorders will first of all need to be analyzed.
irishgeo wrote: » the air investigation unit has confirmed the tail section has the appearance of hitting rocks.
Gadgetman496 wrote: » Do we though?
The Air Accident Investigation Unit has said it believes Coast Guard Helicopter Rescue 116 crashed into Blackrock, off the Mayo coast, in the early hours of last Tuesday morning. In a statement, the AAIU said some wreckage recovered in recent days had marks consistent with the tail of the aircraft hitting rocky surfaces on the western end of the island. Since the investigation began a week ago, Blackrock island, ten miles off the Mayo coast, has been at the centre of the search operation. It was there that the last position of the helicopter was recorded and the location where part of its tail section was found, and it is close to where search crews hope to locate the wreckage.
skallywag wrote: » Correct. But what does that tell us about the reason for this happening? Take a simple analogy of a car crashing into a wall. It will quickly become apparent that the car crashed into a wall, but this fact alone tells us nothing as to why the accident happened ...
homerjay2005 wrote: » yes we do. its confirmed as a collision -http://www.rte.ie/news/connacht/2017/0321/861280-mayo-helicopter-crash/
irishgeo wrote: » Why did AAIU tell us so, if its not important.
Treadhead wrote: » Accurate how? Reports of wreckage on the rock came out on day one. All we know is that the aircraft came into contact with the rock. The wild speculation about why that happened is no more "accurate" today than it was yesterday.
skallywag wrote: » They did so because they are now confident that this fact is true. Of course this fact is extremely important. But it is also the case that we still do not know why this happened.
Cianmcliam wrote: » I wonder did Enda Kenny saying to the papers yesterday that the families 'deserve answers' contribute to the release of the statement before the main wreckage has even been visited?
Tenger wrote: » Just to clarify a couple of points; As pointed out above, there is a lot of emotion evident in this thread. Moreso that in any incident that has taken place outside our personal experience. Hence the mods understand that people have close interest. The reported posts have indicated a level of unhappiness with the run of this thread. But please keep in mind that the mods are not here 24/7. Thus we cannot immediately edit/delete/warn/response to reports. Then when Irish Steve did delete quite a large number of posts which were getting personal there was an accusation of over modding. Tricky D locked the thread for a similar reasons, as there was bickering in the absence of any new info. Hopefully we get some new information on the status of 116 and the still missing crew members today. Then we can continue to discuss the tragic incident calmly and sensitively, while understanding that we are not accident investigators. The post by Irish Steve that has been challenged was an in the interest of steering the thread away from 'wild speculation' As with any aviation incident no possibility can be fully discounted. However this incident cannot be speculated along the same way as some posters initially did with "it was a bit dark. maybe they thought they were at Blacksod not Blackrock?" The statistically largest contributing factor in aviation incidents can never be discounted, and Im fully convinced the AAIU are looking at everything. In addition some posters have channels of information that allow them info that may not yet be publicly available. There has also been quite a lot of posts with "I heard this from a mate...." type info. This throws rumours into a very sensitive situation. Someone else asks the question about what impact our thread could have on the families of Rescue 116, the fact is that a quick search online can throw up many results and its easy for someone to click here and start reading. We quite recently saw schoolchildren posting on journal after a tradgey affected them and being discussed by ghouls on the Journal,ie. before the comments were closed. Hopefully that clarifies things a little and most importantly hopefully the AAIU gives some more info later today
homerjay2005 wrote: » so far, the "speculation" of alot of posters here, has proven to actually be factual.
Means Of Escape wrote: » And some "speculation" from "armchair" investigators has been very accurate from early on despite having zero inside knowledge.
Means Of Escape wrote: » Some posters here refused to believe in pilot error and gagged and ridiculed others as armchair investigators who did believe that it was not mechanical failure
Deep Thought wrote: » This piece was omitted from the Quote "The unit says that the initial point of impact has not yet been definitively identified and the circumstances of the accident are still not clear." It helps to scroll beyond the header
irishgeo wrote: » your correct. Why did AAIU tell us so, if its not important.
Means Of Escape wrote: » Care to list the posters that "have channels of information "?
Irish Steve wrote: » The AAIU have now stated that there was debis found on Blackrock Island. While not officially in the public domain, that information was circulating in some areas last Wednesday, and was a factor in some of the way that this thread was managed at that time. I have stated before in this thread, and will say it again now, to suggest that this was CFIT disrespects the memory and professionalism of a crew that were operating at the peak of skill levels and experience, in that they would have known exactly where they were, and of the presence of Blackrock. Yes, CFIT is an outside possibility, but there are other possibilities that for me, rank as being higher on the probability scale, but now is not the time to discuss them A comment was made that even Formula 1 drivers crash, which is true, but when was the last time anyone can remember a driver crashing on the in lap having just completed their qualifying lap. At the time of the loss, they were flying a standard approach profile that they would have used on previous occasions, and while I don't have the exact profile, I would anticipate that they would have been passing over Blackrock at about 3000 Ft and starting an automatic let down on the return leg that would have taken them towards Blacksod, which would have been over water with no obstructions. What is clear is that something happened that resulted in the loss, and for reasons that are at present very much unexplained, contact was made with Blackrock Island. We can only hope that the AAIU will be able to get the information they need from the aircraft recorders
Irish Steve wrote: » A comment was made that even Formula 1 drivers crash, which is true, but when was the last time anyone can remember a driver crashing on the in lap having just completed their qualifying lap. At the time of the loss, they were flying a standard approach profile that they would have used on previous occasions, and while I don't have the exact profile, I would anticipate that they would have been passing over Blackrock at about 3000 Ft and starting an automatic let down on the return leg that would have taken them towards Blacksod, which would have been over water with no obstructions.
Irish Steve wrote: » What is clear is that something happened that resulted in the loss, and for reasons that are at present very much unexplained, contact was made with Blackrock Island. We can only hope that the AAIU will be able to get the information they need from the aircraft recorders
Danbo! wrote: » As with most forums, there are posters who work in the industry and people who are just generally interested in the topic. I presume "channels of info" could mean anyone in the Gardai, the AAIU, coast guard, etc or any friends or family members who may have heard info not in the public domain. I doubt the mods have a definitive list and even if they did, what would be the point of sharing it? To have those users' inbox fill up with requests from journalists or people asking for info?
Irish Steve wrote: » The AAIU have now stated that there was debis found on Blackrock Island. While not officially in the public domain, that information was circulating in some areas last Wednesday, and was a factor in some of the way that this thread was managed at that time. I have stated before in this thread, and will say it again now, to suggest that this was CFIT disrespects the memory and professionalism of a crew that were operating at the peak of skill levels and experience, in that they would have known exactly where they were, and of the presence of Blackrock. Yes, CFIT is an outside possibility, but there are other possibilities that for me, rank as being higher on the probability scale, but now is not the time to discuss them
ProfessorPlum wrote: » I haven posted here for a while, but I have to reply to the above. This is utter nonsense. Your implication is that if this was CFIT, the professionalism of this crew is called into question. And by extension that every accident where CFIT is the cause, calls the professionalism of crew into question. Regardless of the cause of this accident nothing changes the fact that this crew was professional and competent. We all make mistakes. Even highly trained and experienced crews. Daily. Pretending we don't achieves nothing except exposing us to danger.
