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Child Item

Louise O Neill on rape culture.

Ralf and Florian

She presented a documentary on rape culture during the week on RTE which focused on the issue of sexual assault against females. It's interesting to note her response to a (male) follower would tweeted that it would be hilarious to see a remake of Deliverance featuring "pissed up dickheads on a drunken stag". For anyone who's not seen the movie Deliverance its about three city dwellers who go for a weekend fishing to what could be described as a backwoods community. Central to the storyline is when they are held captive and one of them raped by a bunch of rednecks.

https://twitter.com/oneilllo/status/794195404145442816

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neonsofa

midlandsmissus wrote: »

I don't think the onus was on me. I think the onus was on him not to make crude leery remarks, to his son's friend, 35 years his junior, who was working with his son in a professional capacity.
These kinds of men dont tend to be the most reasonable of men, he was physically large, overweight, an alcoholic, and I hated being around him.
I said a few things to him, like 'Im the same age as your son!' But I wasn't confident enough at the time to say more. I dont see it as my fault, I see it as his fault, and the same to any woman in that situation. It is that persons fault, not your fault.

I am not placing blame, just asking if you told him how he was making you feel. He may not have known.

But if you're saying rape culture exists, in which case the man's comments are a reflection of said culture, then how are they going to learn it is not ok unless people tell them? If it is culturally accepted as you say, surely he does not realise he is wrong?

red ears

mzungu wrote: »

Aye, I didn't mean to imply that you were defending him, certainly wasn't my intention. My point was that it doesn't matter why she cancelled, or whether IOD's Twitter rant came after. She owes nobody an answer for that because it is not important, or anybody's business. The only person in the country that cared was Ian O'Doherty.

I'd say he was itching to get on the show and vent his anger. He does seem like a man on the verge of doing a Michael Douglas in Falling Down.

Vela

midlandsmissus wrote: »

I don't think the onus was on me. I think the onus was on him not to make crude leery remarks, to his son's friend, 35 years his junior, who was working with his son in a professional capacity.
These kinds of men dont tend to be the most reasonable of men, he was physically large, overweight, an alcoholic, and I hated being around him.
I said a few things to him, like 'Im the same age as your son!' But I wasn't confident enough at the time to say more. I dont see it as my fault, I see it as his fault, and the same to any woman in that situation. It is that persons fault, not your fault.

That sounds like an awkward situation. I've often had large, drunk, older guys chat me up in bars - and that can also be an awkward situation (unless I'm into them, which is another story! :P) . But it's not indicative of rape culture. It's indicative of some drunk lad who was looking for the ride, and who probably would have shut up if you asked him to. And if he didn't, you could have walked away.

I get that it might have been intimidating. But the onus was on you to stand up for yourself here. And I also get that that can be a scary thing to do. But there isn't always someone to come to your rescue. You have to be your own superhero

(i.e. by telling drunk guys to wise up, and then move on).

Try a night out in Coppers and you'll get plenty of practice!

johnnyskeleton

midlandsmissus wrote: »

No

Ok, well let me ask you another question so:

Which is more important, protecting the "rape culture" movement from criticism or actually trying to understand why rapists commit rape and what we can do about it?

Smegmaniac17

Ok, the following quotes are taken from BRIDGINGTHEGAP. I don't know how to quote sections of a person's post on here so I'm just going to have to copy and paste these sections and present them with inverted commas and address each one. I feel like the majority of your post has been competently addressed and refuted by other posters so I am just going to try and address a few sections which stood out to me. So this is for you BRIDGINGTHEGAP.

''Essentially, both sides are talking about two different things and the people that commonly complain that the current wave of feminism are creating echo chambers for themselves are in fact, doing the very same thing. This thread is an example of that. While there are some posters that seem to open to hearing all sides, it seems like most aren’t really listening. Sure, they are willing to read what is presented to them but aren’t allowing themselves to switch off their preconceptions and take any opportunity to roll their eyes and assume a position ofintellectual superiority.''

You must not have read this thread very carefully. If you had, you would have noticed that anytime a poster comes on here trying to make a case for the existence of RAPE CULTURE, he or she is challenged immediately. What has happened to you is proof of this. That is not the behaviour of people who only want to engage with people who have the same ideology and opinions. It is the behaviour of people who want to challenge opposite beliefs and hear the strongest arguments possible against their own position. Instead of trying to put our fingers in our ears when we hear a dissident voice, we are only too happy to engage with the arguments like we have done with yours. And I think you have found that your arguments have for the most part been taken very seriously and given due respect. Nobody, from what I have seen, just shouted you down and more or less resorted to ad hom attacks that could be paraphrased as 'shut up
feminist, you haven't a clue what you're talking about'. Your post was dissected very rigourously and studiously by a number of posters here which proves that your assessment that the posters here are creating echo chambers for themselves is false. From my experience, it is the feminists who advocate Rape Culture who run away from debate whenever their views are being pressed! However, I do admire and appreciate that you are willing to put your neck on the line and argue your case though and I hope that the discussion will remain respectful!

''It means that the act of rape does not happen in a vacuum. Everything that surrounds us, socially and culturally influence who we are as people. Dots have been connected between things that happen in every day life and rape. Harassment, gender norms, sexual objectification (both in the media and on an individual level) are a selection of things that remain present in our society.''

The problem here is that you are putting the philosophical cart before the horse here! No effect occurs without a cause , for sure. But you can't cite causes as if they are the EFFECT! For example, a heroin addict may site his/her introduction to cannabis as the ultimate cause of his/her heroin use. After all, it is not called a gateway drug for nothing! But does that mean that when we observe examples of widespread cannabis use in a society that we are now entitled to propose a HEROIN CULTURE diagnosis for that culture! That's pretty preposterous, right? You have to check to see if the HEROIN CULTURE actually exists. Is heroin use normalised, widespread and an integral part of the general way of life of the majority of people in given society or not? If not, then we are not entitled to cite the existence of widespread cannabis as an example of 'heroin culture'. We can call it a cannabis culture but not a heroin culture.

What feminists seem to be doing is citing all instances of sexism that occur in society as if they are EXAMPLES of RAPE CULTURE.

They are basically making the bizarre and completely illogical proposition that the cause and the effect are the same thing! And anyway, even if we were to be forgiving of this complete LOGIC FAIL, at the very least, for the occurances that feminists cite as examples of rape culture to hold any weight, they have to demonstrate that these CAUSES INEVITABLY lead to Rape Culture.

BRIDGINGTHEGAP QUOTE: ''The concept of us living in a “rape culture” is not focusing on the act of rape itself, but on these behaviours and systems that are in place and can play even the smallest part in making someone capable of committing acts of sexual violence on someone else.''

Here is a similar argument : the concept of us living in a ''heroin culture'' is not focused on the act of using heroin itself but on the behaviours and systems that are in place and can play even the smallest part in making someone capable of heroin use. We live in a ''drinking culture'. Alcohol is a widely used drug in Irelnd. If you don't drink , you are the exception to the rule so therefore by definition we are obliged to concede that we live in a drinking culture. Now , alcohol is also known as a gateway drug to harder drugs such as Heroin. So because alcohol is so widely used in the country can we then conclude that we live in a HEROIN CULTURE!?? You see the problem here??
Confusion of the principle of cause and effect again! You cannot present cause AS IF IT IS effect!

Ok I am going to deal with two of your quotes now and explain to you why there is such strong rejection of the proposition of RAPE CULTURE.

''The prevalence of focusing on lexical and literal definitions is an outdated and misinformed approach'' and ''It is completely understandable that this makes people uncomfortable. It should. It makes the people that recognise its existence uncomfortable too. The difference arises when those in opposition, more often than not, opt to indulge in denial and rejection of the concept instead of fighting through the discomfort to try to gain a greater understanding how this concept has come to exist, and potentially then being able to admit that it is indeed a reality.''

What makes people uncomfortable is INTELLECTUAL DISHONESTY! People deny the concept because it is incoherent and hyperbolic! But I am going to demonstrate to you exactly why it is DANGEROUS not to play by definitional rules :

Consider this proposition : WE LIVE IN A FALSE RAPE ACCUSATION CULTURE!

Now, I am as appalled by that proposition as you are I'm sure! But watch me evidence 'FALSE RAPE ACCUSATION CULTURE' using the exact same strategy that the feminist does when trying to evidence RAPE CULTURE.

Here is the case : 'no, don't take the proposition literally because that's an outdated way to determine the truth or falsity of the proposition. Just grant my definition 'SPECIAL PRIVILEGE' please! False Rape ACCUSATION CULTURE means that the act of FALSE RAAPE ACCUSATION does not happen in a vacuum. The concept of us living in a “ false rape accusation culture” is not focusing on the act of falsely accusing someone of rape itself, but on these behaviours and systems that are in place and can play even the smallest part in making someone capable of committing such an act.''

Now, these are words more or less taken from your own post! But when the shoe is on the other foot can you not see how insulting and dishonest a form of argumentation this is?? It says nothing about whether 'false rape accusations' are common and normalised in society at all which is what (whether you're willing to admit it or not) the phrase' false rape acuusation culture' implies! Do you think that it is fair that I demand that you to grant my defintion of 'false rape accusation culture' special privilege??

Ok let's talk specifically about these behaviours and systems that can play a part in making someone capable of falsely accusing someone of rape. 1) A mother telling her daughter to watch her drink in the club at all times is an example of false rape accusation culture. 2 ) The walk of shame after a one night stand is an example of false rape accusation culture! 3) Infidelity not been taken seriously by some people is an example of false rape accusation cuture 4) Advocacy of Rape Culture in Gender Studies courses is an example of False Rape Accusation Culture. Yes, I am committing the favourite feminist fallacy of presenting CAUSE AS EFFECT but heck , who cares.... we don't have to follow definitional or logical rules when making an argument because that stuff is all outdated!!

Now, It is so easy for me to see how insulting, preposterous and most of all dangerous what I have just said sounds! First of all, none of these things demonstrate that there are ACTUALLY lots of false rape accusations occuring in society! What I have cited are causes not effects. These Causes are irrelevant to the discussion until you can actually show that the effect that is 'false rape accusation culture' actually exists. I'm also not suggesting that these are actually plausible causes of 'false rape accusation culture' - they're preposterous. However, they are at least more plausible than a lot of the examples that feminists cite for rape culture because at least , in my citations one can derive some kind of motive from them.

Now, I am going to ask you to please be honest when answering this question : do you not agree that I am engaged in a bull**** argument there?? Despite using the exact same tactics of argumentation that feminists use with Rape Culture, surely when the shoe is on the other foot, you can see how dishonest it seems to use these tactics!!

As someone who has bee a victim of sexual assault, wouldnt you demand that the advocates of this disgraceful 'FRAC' ideology better be open to scrutiny and most importantly, they better be definitionally consisent, avoid logical fallacies and be completely intellectually honest while making their case?? The stakes are too high not to demand that they do this!

Thankfully, in any case, the highly offensive claim that we live in a 'False Rape Accusation Culture' can be debunked with one simple logical argument : most women or men don't even claim to have been raped so the idea that we live in a culture rife with false rape accusations is illogical and patently false if we are to obey logical and definitional rules! Unfortunately, for the TWF, a similar type of argument exists against the claim that we live in a 'Rape Culture' that is just as valid but for some strange reason the feminist doesnt consider this a reasonable way to try and debunk their proposition! I wonder why!!!!

Now, I am not saying that Rape and sexual assault don't exist!The reason that I take this agument seriously is because I abhore rape so much. I am still very much open to the possibility that rape occurs more often than we are aware and that it is an issue worth taking very seriously and that there are fine lines that we need to talk about openly in public discourse with regards to what sort of behaviour violates a person's sexual autonomy and not just get fixated on this notion of rape...I dont take the subject matter lightly at all. However, I think 'rape culture' is divisive hyperbole which is proving to be detrimental to the cause of rape victims. And just don't understand why they dont just change their catchphrase from 'RAPE CULTURE' to 'RAPE PROBLEM'? Would save a lot of argumentation and confusion over definitions, right? Surely, it would be a more reasonable starting point for making their argument! But the feminists can't do this because they desperately need to pedal an ideology that paints in no uncertain terms that 'men are not to be trusted'! It's a pity because if they actually approached it in a less dramatic, aggressive and more reasonable manner and said something like ' rape occurrs more often than people think and we have statistics and case studies to prove this and we just want people to become more aware and to help us find solutions of how to tackle the situation', people would be more receptive to this very important cause.

Widdershins

neonsofa wrote: »

I am not placing blame, just asking if you told him how he was making you feel. He may not have known.

But if you're saying rape culture exists, in which case the man's comments are a reflection of said culture, then how are they going to learn it is not ok unless people tell them? If it is culturally accepted as you say, surely he does not realise he is wrong?

It's not culturally acceptable, which is why Midlandsmissus knew it was wrong, exceptionally wrong. HE did not care, because he was a prime ********, from her description. Or he was too drink addled to care.

The other point is that he's the odd one out, like lecherous old gits always are. They're not the norm here, they're the exception that people talk about disparagingly, warn their friends and girlfriends about, tolerate if they must, but keep an eye on them when they're nearby. If Midlandsmissus had wanted to she could have pursued it under sexual harassment laws. The reason we have such laws, imperfect though they are, just as most laws are, is because it's NOT culturally acceptable to pester women for sex. Because we don't have a rape culture!

neonsofa

Widdershins wrote: »

It's not culturally acceptable, which is why Midlandsmissus knew it was wrong, exceptionally wrong. HE did not care, because he was a prime ********, from her description. Or he was too drink addled to care.

The other point is that he's the odd one out, like lecherous old gits always are. They're not the norm here, they're the exception that people talk about disparagingly, warn their friends and girlfriends about, tolerate if they must, but keep an eye on them when they're nearby. If Midlandsmissus had wanted to she could have pursued it under sexual harassment laws. The reason we have such laws, imperfect though they are, just as most laws are, is because it's NOT culturally acceptable to pester women for sex. Because we don't have a rape culture!

100% agree. But if that poster believes it does exist then surely the only way to change this culture is to inform the individual people making the comments that it is not acceptable. Educating people when they make these comments. Surely by not speaking up at the time, it is just exasperating the issue; by allowing the comments to go unchallenged are they themselves not just contributing to that culture where it is accepted?

So, if one does believe a rape culture exists, rather than advocating for consent classes for all men and blaming straight white men for the existence of this rape culture we should be encouraging women to stop being a passive victim in these types of scenarios and to learn to speak up against this type of thing as and when it happens. I absolutely know how difficult that can be, I do. But we should be empowering women to speak up to the individual men/women who are behaving in such a way and not be encouraging them to make sweeping generalisations about all men and rape culture. Especially if you truly believe rape culture exists; because if the comments/ behaviour remains unchallenged by the woman, then the woman has a part to play in creating an environment in which the behaviour is normalised, which is what they are saying rape culture is, no?

Widdershins

neonsofa wrote: »

100% agree. But if that poster believes it does exist then surely the only way to change this culture is to inform the individual people making the comments that it is not acceptable. Educating people when they make these comments. Surely by not speaking up at the time, it is just exasperating the issue; by allowing the comments to go unchallenged are they themselves not just contributing to that culture where it is accepted?

So, if one does believe a rape culture exists, rather than advocating for consent classes for all men and blaming straight white men for the existence of this rape culture we should be encouraging women to stop being a passive victim in these types of scenarios and to learn to speak up against this type of thing as and when it happens. I absolutely know how difficult that can be, I do. But we should be empowering women to speak up to the individual men/women who are behaving in such a way and not be encouraging them to make sweeping generalisations about all men and rape culture. Especially if you truly believe rape culture exists; because if the comments/ behaviour remains unchallenged by the woman, then the woman has a part to play in creating an environment in which the behaviour is normalised, which is what they are saying rape culture is, no?

That makes perfect sense to me. It would be much better than coming away from the bad experience with the impression that this kind of thing is common and acceptable to many. There have been a few times in my life when I've wondered why I didn't say anything to the person who'd said something unpleasant to me, so I can sympathise with anyone who didn't, when maybe they should have. But usually after those experiences I can also see that they're not usually representative of a group.

jameorahiely

There's posts disappearing off this thread. Are mods deleting them, without explanation?

darkdubh

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Every feminist in Ireland/anywhere has been called crazy/unbalanced/mentally unstable.
You do not see this the other way round from women, when men talk about men's rights.
Isn't this an indicator of men feeling diminished by speaking up for themselves.
Can you name a feminist you do like?
To all- should we all, women, never have a dissenting opinion in order for you to feel happy? Do you see how controlling this is?

Mary Beard, among others. She's taken a lot of stick for speaking her mind on No Platforming.

http://timesonline.typepad.com/dons_life/2015/02/no-platforming-1.html

neonsofa

Widdershins wrote: »

That makes perfect sense to me. It would be much better than coming away from the bad experience with the impression that this kind of thing is common and acceptable to many. There have been a few times in my life when I've wondered why I didn't say anything to the person who'd said something unpleasant to me, so I can sympathise with anyone who didn't, when maybe they should have. But usually after those experiences I can also see that they're not usually representative of a group.

And that's reasonable and natural. To think why didn't I stand up for myself. And like you say, you can accept that the person was just your regular ol' creep, not a symptom of rape culture. But rather than do this and maybe work on their own self confidence and assertiveness going forward, people like LON are blaming some kind of rape culture, which if it did exist, is only being perpetuated by them and other women not challenging it whenever they are faced with the behaviour. Yet they only target and blame men when discussing it.

(Btw I'm obviously not talking about situations whereby the woman feels physically threatened, I'm talking about cases like the previous poster mentioned or where the sleazy older man is making inappropriate comments at a family function.)

RabbleRouser2k

neonsofa wrote: »

And that's reasonable and natural. To think why didn't I stand up for myself. And like you say, you can accept that the person was just your regular ol' creep, not a symptom of rape culture. But rather than do this and maybe work on their own self confidence and assertiveness going forward, people like LON are blaming some kind of rape culture, which if it did exist, is only being perpetuated by them and other women not challenging it whenever they are faced with the behaviour. Yet they only target and blame men when discussing it.

(Btw I'm obviously not talking about situations whereby the woman feels physically threatened, I'm talking about cases like the previous poster mentioned or where the sleazy older man is making inappropriate comments at a family function.)

I read her posts-about the guy being a total sleazebag. And tbh, I've encountered those @$$ hats myself-though I'm a male, and they weren't hitting on me. Like, I had a comment made about me in one of those kid rugby leagues when I was 11. Guy totally mocked and embarrassed the hell out me, making comments about my anatomy, my privates and my clothes. Got a laugh out of my classmates, but I withheld crying, even though I just wanted to. Still makes me angry when I think about it.
The coach was absolutely horrific to others too-after that I lost all interest in getting better. Got a cert out of it, and I hate looking at it-it's just a painful reminder.
You get @$$hats in every area of life-and they should totally be called out on it.

https://twitter.com/NWCI/status/838329395773378561

This is a genuine tweet sent out by the womens council of ireland-apparently a woman who had a hysterectomy, or suffers from MRKH is not a woman. Only the presence of a uterus makes one a woman.

I find this so abhorrent, and so disgusting-I just...

I wonder did LoN hack their account, it's that blinkered.

Wibbs

neonsofa wrote: »

100% agree. But if that poster believes it does exist then surely the only way to change this culture is to inform the individual people making the comments that it is not acceptable. Educating people when they make these comments. Surely by not speaking up at the time, it is just exasperating the issue; by allowing the comments to go unchallenged are they themselves not just contributing to that culture where it is accepted?

Yep in general I would agree(can depend on situation) and feminists will tend to agree. However... it is squarely laid at the feet of men, or the nebulous "patriarchy", IE men to take this responsibility to educate others, IE men. Various ad campaigns have been pushing this notion, including here in Ireland. The "real men don't let other men rape" nonsense. Again and as per usual the responsibility and agency of women is ignored. Cos it's men's fault y'know.

neonsofa

Wibbs wrote: »

Yep in general I would agree(can depend on situation) and feminists will tend to agree. However... it is squarely laid at the feet of men, or the nebulous "patriarchy", IE men to take this responsibility to educate others, IE men. Various ad campaigns have been pushing this notion, including here in Ireland. The "real men don't let other men rape" nonsense. Again and as per usual the responsibility and agency of women is ignored. Cos it's men's fault y'know.

But then they treat men like a homogenous pack of horn dogs that are so heavily influenced by said rape culture that they cannot be trusted to control themselves around women, yet they want them to take responsibility for educating each other on these issues? There is no logic.. !

[Deleted User]

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Can you tell me a feminist that you do like?

I'll tell you what, I'll answer your question after you respond to the one I put to you first. Equality and all that. I'm referring to the one I asked you nearly a week ago. The one which you said you were too busy to answer yet still had time to call me an attention seeker. Actually think I asked you twice in case you missed it.
There's a few posters on here I seldom agree with but they engage in discussion and, for that, I respect them. Might not necessarily agree with them but I respect the fact they have the integrity to give as good as they get. So I'll ask again and if you answer me I'll happily answer you.

So I'll retype it word for word;

Anyway, when you're good and ready midlandsmissus, would you be so kind as to give your take on the below quote? Not saying right now, just whenever you're free to do so.

I work as a Prison Officer. Rapists in prison are seen as the lowest of the low. They are scum. Murderers are miles above them. What does that tell you? Apart from Subversive Republicans (and that's largely political), Sex Offenders are the only category of prisoner requiring their own prison. Imagine that, their own prison because even the dregs of decent society won't accept them. Rapists aren't accepted in decent society and are just as much not accepted in indecent society.

bruschi

midlandsmissus wrote: »

So we've had a thread dissecting and hating LON's character. We've had a thread dissecting and trashing Rosemary McCabes character. Both female.
LON has invariably been called narcissistic, crazy, a lunatic, unbalanced just because she speaks about women's issues. She is an award winning author- more than many of you might have done. Is there a male in the media you might like to pick apart?
Why just women on AH?
To the people telling me to answer other people's posts. Leave me alone. You do not control me and stop acting like you think you have the right.

The Healy-Raes (and multiple cases)
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057709411

Ian O Doherty (amongst other incidents)
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057503134

John Waters (again, amongst many more)
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057189578

Piers Morgan
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin//showthread.php?t=2057038052

Jeremy Clarkson
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057394748

Ray Darcy
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057590980

Fathers for Justice protest
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=100782316

On a very quick search in AH for those "males in media".

Posts and threads complaining about annoying mouthpiece people is not confined to gender. The common trait with those above and others is not their gender, but their ability to say utterly stupid stuff and annoy people.

Threads ripping apart people is not confined to females as you seem to think. In fairness, it probably has more posts and threads elsewhere on boards ripping apart males than females. If you say something utterly stupid, it will be called as such, being male or female shouldnt be a factor in whether a person is saying idiotic things or not.

The_Kew_Tour

Im all for Feminism

Im all for Woman being treated equally
Im all for Women getting equal pay
Im all for Women not being judged by what they wear
Or by how skinny or fat they are.
Im all for outrage of awful short sentences rapists get.
Im all for outrage on Women being Stoned or hanged for just being A Woman or Lesbian

I think you get my drift...

But these are not issues that LON likes to address. No she is more worried about shouting that all White men are rapists or are resposible for rape. That men cannot suffer sexisim and cannot suffer depression anywhere near females, and by opening a door for woman is outdated.

Thankfully, the majority of women see through her. They're many super Woman who are great Role Models for Feminisim that get next to nowhere near the coverage she gets.

Thats worrying

hatrickpatrick

Interesting question for any woman here defending LoN's brand of feminism. A tiny minority of women view men as sentient ATMs as far as relationships are concerned, especially when divorce is involved. I firmly believe that the majority of women not only do not subscribe to this but also have no respect for those who do (this is obviously coming from personal experience, but it seems to sit well with the sentiments I've seen in many debates about this over the years).

Would you think it was fair if the media started to refer to "women" rather than "some women" when describing this fringe group of w@nkers? Would it be fair for people to write articles which boil down to "all women are responsible for gold digging", "teach women not to screw men over", "women this and women that" without any qualifier to make it absolutely clear that it's only a fringe minority of women who have actually done anything wrong?

Because that's the reality of the "man shaming" narrative being pushed by the media and by many feminists on social media. That while it's absolutely unfair to refer to women or feminists as a hive mind and hold them responsible for any collective action, it's completely cool to hold every man responsible for the transgressions of every man in history, right up to and including the present day, regardless of what kind of person the individual man in question is - even if he's a good person, because he has a dick and so many w@nkers have also had dicks throughout history, he is responsible for their w@nkery - obviously dicks are like quantum entangled particles, in that they all share some sort of undetectable connection and are therefore intrinsically linked to eachother and by extension the behaviour of their owners.

Is it honestly surprising that men who actually do believe in gender equality, such as myself and many others in this thread, are utterly repulsed by that ideology? Does it surprise you that we're pissed off at having to see "men do X", "men are responsible for Y", "men are Z" memes every time they go on to the Irish Times website to check the headlines, or any time they go on to their Facebook or Twitter to see if anything interesting is happening and are instead confronted by the latest man shaming meme?

Boom_Bap

jameorahiely wrote: »

There's posts disappearing off this thread. Are mods deleting them, without explanation?

The thread was being hijacked by some of our serial rereg folk, so the posts were deleted as part of the tidy-up.

Any more queries - drop myself or any other mods a PM

neonsofa

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Interesting question for any woman here defending LoN's brand of feminism. A tiny minority of women view men as sentient ATMs as far as relationships are concerned, especially when divorce is involved. I firmly believe that the majority of women not only do not subscribe to this but also have no respect for those who do (this is obviously coming from personal experience, but it seems to sit well with the sentiments I've seen in many debates about this over the years).

Would you think it was fair if the media started to refer to "women" rather than "some women" when describing this fringe group of w@nkers? Would it be fair for people to write articles which boil down to "all women are responsible for gold digging", "teach women not to screw men over", "women this and women that" without any qualifier to make it absolutely clear that it's only a fringe minority of women who have actually done anything wrong?

Because that's the reality of the "man shaming" narrative being pushed by the media and by many feminists on social media. That while it's absolutely unfair to refer to women or feminists as a hive mind and hold them responsible for any collective action, it's completely cool to hold every man responsible for the transgressions of every man in history, right up to and including the present day, regardless of what kind of person the individual man in question is - even if he's a good person, because he has a dick and so many w@nkers have also had dicks throughout history, he is responsible for their w@nkery - obviously dicks are like quantum entangled particles, in that they all share some sort of undetectable connection and are therefore intrinsically linked to eachother and by extension the behaviour of their owners.

Is it honestly surprising that men who actually do believe in gender equality, such as myself and many others in this thread, are utterly repulsed by that ideology? Does it surprise you that we're pissed off at having to see "men do X", "men are responsible for Y", "men are Z" memes every time they go on to the Irish Times website to check the headlines, or any time they go on to their Facebook or Twitter to see if anything interesting is happening and are instead confronted by the latest man shaming meme?

I think if that was happening they wouldn't view it from the same level headed perspective as yourself, they'd view it through the same blinkers- as proof of a misogynistic society and that only fuels their agenda. Havent you learned- either way the men are in the wrong!
Very interesting point though.

Smegmaniac17

Anyone else read the piece in the Guardian entitled 'EPIDEMIC of sex harrassment in universities'??

RabbleRouser2k

https://twitter.com/oneilllo/status/838355676741128193

So LoN is pulling a madonna and calling for terrorist acts and burning of property-ya know, cos 'feminism'....

I'm gonna say it over and over-she needs to get help.

hatrickpatrick

Ok, seriously, what the actual f*ck is up with this.

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/michael-harding-learning-late-in-life-to-listen-to-women-1.2992196

The IT's gynocentric propaganda has now jumped the shark entirely. In fact, if you think about it, this article is downright creepy in that it promotes eavesdropping on people's private conversations, but I guess that's ok if you learn a grand and humbling lesson about how much of a male gobsh!te you are, that's perfectly fine?

What. The. F*ck.

Awaiting an article from a woman who learns the error of her ways in how she has unfairly treated men in her life, aaaaaaaaaaany day now...

neonsofa

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Ok, seriously, what the actual f*ck is up with this.

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/michael-harding-learning-late-in-life-to-listen-to-women-1.2992196

The IT's gynocentric propaganda has now jumped the shark entirely. In fact, if you think about it, this article is downright creepy in that it promotes eavesdropping on people's private conversations, but I guess that's ok if you learn a grand and humbling lesson about how much of a male gobsh!te you are, that's perfectly fine?

What. The. F*ck.

Awaiting an article from a woman who learns the error of her ways in how she has unfairly treated men in her life, aaaaaaaaaaany day now...

I'd hate to think what lesson people take from my phone conversations! The conversations I have with my sister and friends would not enlighten anybody in a positive way

TheDavester

I love the MMA Ireland response

"mentors" jaysus

Wibbs

Typical ivory tower bourgeoisie navel gazing really. It was ever thus.

jimgoose

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Ok, seriously, what the actual f*ck is up with this.

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/michael-harding-learning-late-in-life-to-listen-to-women-1.2992196...

What a simpering twit.

darkdubh

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Ok, seriously, what the actual f*ck is up with this.

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/michael-harding-learning-late-in-life-to-listen-to-women-1.2992196

The IT's gynocentric propaganda has now jumped the shark entirely. In fact, if you think about it, this article is downright creepy in that it promotes eavesdropping on people's private conversations, but I guess that's ok if you learn a grand and humbling lesson about how much of a male gobsh!te you are, that's perfectly fine?

What. The. F*ck.

Awaiting an article from a woman who learns the error of her ways in how she has unfairly treated men in her life, aaaaaaaaaaany day now...

I half expected it to end "and that old man...........was me"

jimgoose

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

...So LoN is pulling a madonna and calling for terrorist acts and burning of property-ya know, cos 'feminism'....

I'm gonna say it over and over-she needs to get help.

Which "rights" exactly is she supposed to be missing, does anyone know?

Glenster

TheDavester wrote: »

*Big Twitter picture

"mentors" jaysus

That Mark O'Toole lad is such a b*tch.