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Does anyone know what the ethnic Traveller Status statement actually means?

Spanish Eyes

I'm just a bit puzzled by this impending statement by Enda Kenny, being delivered shortly.

Does it change any law, does it change the Constitution?

Does anyone know. Information is thin on the ground really AFAIS.

Thanks.

Edit: Mod warning http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=102785057&postcount=212

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Graces7

the_syco wrote: »

They like to burn the house down when a person dies in it, for some reason.

That was the old caravans which they made and owned so are fine to do that.

Graces7

12gauge dave wrote: »

I would tell you of my experiences with travellers but i would find it hard to hold back the rage and in turn get banned from boards so just take my word for it.

I could tell you of my experiences with so-called "respectable non travellers .. never waste time or energy on rage though and I will certainly not take your word from it.

One such so called respectable non traveller still had a Garda barring order out from any contact with me

Whereas the one time I had trouble with a man who was ill treating his critters who turned out to be a settled traveller, and had to call the Gardai, he was told and did as he was told. End of problem.

And the worst violence I ever saw was the land feud between two Irish farming families, over a 30 year period .

Maybe the way YOU treat folk rebounds back on you and I have no sympathy.

Graces7

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I know the actual rent isn't that high but it's debatable if many of them even pay anything, I've been told by someone that not many of them do here in Galway anyway.

Sheer tattling rattling gossip? Surely you can do better than that?

You don't pay you get evicted. Period.
Whoever you are.

tomwaterford

Graces7 wrote: »

Sheer tattling rattling gossip? Surely you can do better than that?

You don't pay you get evicted. Period.
Whoever you are.

Unless you own the place??

Graces7

DavidLyons_ wrote: »

Pretty obvious that some of the posters defending travellers in this thread are using multiple log ins. The lack of thanks on the posts despite the various user names is a dead giveaway. A couple of them are glaringly, pathetically obvious. These people have also most likely never actually met a traveller.

roflol!

:D:D:D:D

And I am alone, myself and me! Unique!

And as I have said, I have met many travellers, settled and not.

Lived in Killarney where most of the jarveys, ie the men who own the famous jaunting cars, are settled travellers. Grand folk. Sure they have occasional disputes which get to court as they should but kinder men you could not hope to meet.

Pkiernan

end of the road wrote: »

Mick Wallace got voted in because he is a good man who cares deeply for the people. he is a man of the people and isn't pc as pc doesn't exist. i disagree with him on repealing the trespass laws.

He also shares another trait with our mobile friends - taxes are optional apparently.

amtc

I do have personal experience. Three years ago I worked in Department of Social Protection. Claimants had to apply in their local office and nominate a post office. Travellers didn't, could apply and sign on anywhere and didn't have to prove genuinely seeking work.

tomwaterford

Graces7 wrote: »

roflol! :D:D:D:D

And I am alone, myself and me! Unique!

And as I have said, I have met many travellers, settled and not.

Lived in Killarney where most of the jarveys, ie the men who own the famous jaunting cars, are settled travellers. Grand folk. Sure they have occasional disputes which get to court as they should but kinder men you could not hope to meet.

So have you encountered any proper travellers??

IE those that move about selling stuff outta the back of a van/travel in packs....where if 1 calls you know that 4 or 5 will call within a day or 2 and you have to keep them half in fear of you....or they'll walk all over you??

I seen the effects of two of them ransacking an old man's house not far from my home....drove the man to an early grave with fear

Graces7

joe40 wrote: »

I could be described a liberal, lefty do gooder. But I for the life of me do not understand this decision. Traveller culture has a lot of problems it needs to sort out. Not sending kids to school, arranged marriages-virtually child brides, ongoing feuds. These are serious human rights abuses in their own community. Traveller leaders would be better off addressing these issues than ethnicity whatever that means

SO? worst feud I ever came across is one between 2 longstanding Irish famers. Over 30 years now and counting.

People who moive, eg army folk, have to move kids from school to school, and frankly, if the non traveller -kids are following their parents ways? I would not send my child to a place where they are going to be mocked and shunned.

Would you?

And much of this is due to generations of being treated like dirt.

Do you by the way have the stats on child brides etc? The actual ages I mean?

Richard Hillman

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Incidentally what happened to the poster who said they took over the BBC?

I don't respond to people playing dumb. You know what I meant with the BBC and their quota's.

NIMAN

oneilla wrote: »

Thre were very extreme cuts to travellers education supports. Maybe you missed this.

Are children of travellers not considered the same as every other child when it comes to education? Why should they have separate supports?

That is, are they not entitled to a place in a national school? Entitled to get taught exactly the same as other kids in the area?

I think the answer is a definite yes, but the responsibility is on the parents to send their kids to school. The State shouldn't have to run around making special cases and rules for one group of people. They fund the education system and open it to its citizens, if they citizens chose to ignore it, what can you do?

Graces7

So after reading this thread yesterday and being deeply concerned I had a long chat on the phone with a family colleague, Irish lady , who has vast experience of travellers here.

Re disabled babies? They care for them. Families help each other, and the "community" support aspect of traveller life is something that has not been mentioned here. Something we could all emulate.

I asked too re their dealings with eg Mercy SIsters, given how many little ones ended up in their "care" from the settled community.

They did not surrender their children, ever. They accepted food at the convent gates in need and asked for work there but no more than that.

Bare knuckle fighting? Mostly organised by non traveller men who make a lot of money off the travellers.

Education? When folk are moving around can you swear the children are not at school elsewhere? This happens with military families too by the way .

and travellers are strong family folk in an Irish tradition that seems weaker these days?

and human which means reacting as they are treated. Sure there are cultural differences and that is fine too. I have no problem with that.

As an expat here these many years I have found some Irish traditions strange

Like others here I respond as I am treated. In my long life I have known discrimination myself and it does terrible things to self confidence etc.

My memories of dealing with travellers has been more good than bad.

Never will I forget the jarvey who offered me a house at a low rent when I was facing probable homelessness. No one else would or did. And I have seen more respect for the law among them than elsewhere.

They always used to wave as I passed them in town .

So I will continue to take everyone as I find them . Even here in Galway!

DavidLyons_

Graces7 wrote: »

DavidLyons_ wrote: »

Pretty obvious that some of the posters defending travellers in this thread are using multiple log ins. The lack of thanks on the posts despite the various user names is a dead giveaway. A couple of them are glaringly, pathetically obvious. These people have also most likely never actually met a traveller.

roflol! :D:D:D:D

Graces7 wrote: »

Writing as an elderly person, nearly 80, living in rural Ireland I am not nor ever have been.....

Nope. Grow up.

[Deleted User]

Richard Hillman wrote: »

I don't respond to people playing dumb. You know what I meant with the BBC and their quota's.

No I don't. Do the BBC have quotas regarding travellers? And spell out how this has affected their programming.

It sounded like utter hysteria and scare mongering...they've taken over the Beeb, soon their propaganda will be unavoidable...

[Deleted User]

DavidLyons_ wrote: »

Nope. Grow up.

She's almost 80 David....seriously man, you may have no respect for travellers but telling people in their 70s to "grow up"????

Graces7

NIMAN wrote: »

Are children of travellers not considered the same as every other child when it comes to education? Why should they have separate supports?

That is, are they not entitled to a place in a national school? Entitled to get taught exactly the same as other kids in the area?

I think the answer is a definite yes, but the responsibility is on the parents to send their kids to school. The State shouldn't have to run around making special cases and rules for one group of people. They fund the education system and open it to its citizens, if they citizens chose to ignore it, what can you do?

Two of my landlords, good rural Irishmen, have been illiterate. Oe could just about write his name, the other barely read. Both in their 50s.

As long as the children are not being treated as folk here are treating travellers?

As a former teacher I know how cruel kids can be

Have you read round this?

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/our-casual-racism-against-travellers-is-one-of-ireland-s-last-great-shames-1.1315730

http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/analysis/travellers-would-thrive-if-they-were-given-the-opportunity-314393.html

https://www.education.ie/en/Publications/Policy-Reports/traveller_ed_strat.pdf

http://www.paveepoint.ie/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Education_Leaflet.pdf

Graces7

Deleted User wrote: »

She's almost 80 David....seriously man, you may have no respect for travellers but telling people in their 70s to "grow up"????

Hilarious.. could not work out what the "nope"was about either..

elefant

oneilla wrote: »

Thre were very extreme cuts to travellers education supports. Maybe you missed this.

They should be cut to zero. Education supports should be the same for every child.

Galwayguy35

Graces7 wrote: »

Sheer tattling rattling gossip? Surely you can do better than that?

You don't pay you get evicted. Period.
Whoever you are.

It's not actually, the wife of a guy I work with deals with them on a daily basis and she told him very few of them pay the rent.

It's no difference to me if you believe it or not.

Do you think people who park up on private property when it suits them would be too bothered about something like paying rent.

[Deleted User]

elefant wrote: »

They should be cut to zero. Education supports should be the same for every child.

You'd stop the DEIS programme, back to school allowances, special needs assistants and so on?

Graces7

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

It's not actually, the wife of a guy I work with deals with them on a daily basis and she told him very few of them pay the rent.

It's no difference to me if you believe it or not.

Do you think people who park up on private property when it suits them would be too bothered about something like paying rent.

Many non travellers are the same.

Read the accommodation and property forum...

Not because they are travellers or not .. your hearsay is not by the way proof. Just more.. discriminatory gossip.

[Deleted User]

Galwayguy35 wrote:

Do you think people who park up on private property when it suits them would be too bothered about something like paying rent.

In fairness the ones in houses aren't the ones in caravans parking on private parking.
The more comments I read here just proves that they are a separate ethnic group. Most posters here are treating travellers totally separate to settled people.
So the argument maybe should be why the travellers are hated rather than hiding the argument behind are they an ethnic group or not

Graces7

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

It's not actually, the wife of a guy I work with deals with them on a daily basis and she told him very few of them pay the rent.

It's no difference to me if you believe it or not.

Do you think people who park up on private property when it suits them would be too bothered about something like paying rent.

Proof?

Oh and I am living in a rental where the farmer up the lane was trying to annex the garden here as he thought the house was abandoned... Irish farmer, non traveller.. caught him just in time

Over to you! Or is that checkmate?

elefant

Deleted User wrote: »

You'd stop the DEIS programme, back to school allowances, special needs assistants and so on?

I think they should be provided to all children in Ireland equally.

Means Of Escape

Noddyholder wrote: »

I have had many dealings with travellers over the years up here, Most of them not good, But I can't see why the big scream here is all about ? And some of the remarks are just shameful .

They have been classed as an ethnic group, that's it, they have not been given immunity ,It's up to Goverment & law enforcement to make sure there obeying the law of the land and if above are not doing that then the question should be asked why not.

As for the crimes they commit, Most of the crime committed in this country is not from travellers, sure aren't our jails filled with the same people from the same areas years after years,

Good luck to them I say and hope it improves there responsibility and respect they have for the rest of us, as it's not to long ago that we as a country had not that great of a reputation either when across the water there, that has changed over the last few years so hoping that travellers can do to.

Improves their responsibility ..............

Galwayguy35

Graces7 wrote: »

Many non travellers are the same.

Read the accommodation and property forum...

Not because they are travellers or not .. your hearsay is not by the way proof. Just more.. discriminatory gossip.

It's not hearsay, it's from someone who works within the system.

Galwayguy35

Graces7 wrote: »

[/B]

Proof?

Oh and I am living in a rental where the farmer up the lane was trying to annex the garden here as he thought the house was abandoned... Irish farmer, non traveller.. caught him just in time

Over to you! Or is that checkmate?

You don't believe they park up where they aren't supposed to?

We see it a lot here both in the city and the county, you just want to ignore what doesn't suit your sunshine and lollipops view of travellers.

[Deleted User]

elefant wrote: »

I think they should be provided to all children in Ireland equally.

That makes no sense. You'd appoint special needs assistants for children with no special needs, you'd give the back to school allowance to everyone regardless of income, and the DEIS grants would be available to schools in Foxrock?

elefant

Deleted User wrote: »

That makes no sense. You'd appoint special needs assistants for children with no special needs, you'd give the back to school allowance to everyone regardless of income, and the DEIS grants would be available to schools in Foxrock?

Yes, of course. That is exactly what I'm saying.

Noddyholder

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

You don't believe they park up where they aren't supposed to?

We see it a lot here both in the city and the county, you just want to ignore what doesn't suit your sunshine and lollipops view of travellers.

Tell me Galway guy do you think the balinaslo horse fair should be stopped, it brings in aprox 8 million to the local community, in which its badly needed, as the town its self seems to be dieing, I have been there many many times and despite the trouble that certainly does erupt,like at all concerts and all major outdoor gigs, it's great for the craic and fun, for those that don't know about it, it's the king of horse fairs in this country, and it's majority attending are travellers, I have also been to Appleby horse fair in England which is the equivalent, and also brings in more needed revenue,
Ah I forgot I am not supposed to have any dealing with traveler's sure what would I know.
Sorry for typo I on phone.