El_Duderino 09 wrote: » Ok I don't think you know what a psychology is but I'll use your term. Surely the 'amateur psychology' is in trying to work out someone's intentions without actually asking them.
As an actual amateur psychologist I can tell you that people are not rational actors and will behave in line with perceived social expectations in more instances than you would imagine. Hence behaving like consent is assumed will lead to more sex than actively gaining consent. The difference between the 2 is the gray area and I think calling it all 'regret sex' is dismissive and wrong. It could equally all be called rape but I'm not taking that extremist position like you are. The woman should educate themselves but the men should be under no obligation to actually gain consent? I find that truly fascinating.
Garda: 'Chalk it up to experience' swetcheeks. Classic. Do other posters agree with these assertions that consent can be assumed unless it's explicitly denied verbally or physically?
neonsofa wrote: I said body language etc. Not body language alone.
El_Duderino 09 wrote: » And you could voice that irritation and work from a shared understanding of what's normal in your relationship. Completely normal relationship stuff. The difference is that people who just met don't have much shared understanding at all. That's where problems arrise. One poster was willing to put ALL of those instances down to 'regret sex'. Amazing that such an assertion could go unchallenged.
Zulu wrote: » midlandsmissus wrote: » Ive had two boyfriends, who, everytime we had sex, asked, 'do you want to have sex'.Isnt it the more mature thing to do. Asking her what she wants to do? I think these kinds of things are really, really important! WTF seriously this is getting daft. Aren't both parties engaging the in act adults? Can't both parties accept responsibility for their actions? Did you ask him for his permission to proceed? If not, why not? Do you value your own person more than his? Sweet baby jesus. What the fuck is wrong with this picture. Thankfully, in the real world, millions of people are mature enough to engage in sexual relations, on a daily basis, without this preposterous pandering to the concept that the women can't take responsibility for her actions. Or engaging in adult behaviour unsupervised without having to be "protected".
midlandsmissus wrote: » Ive had two boyfriends, who, everytime we had sex, asked, 'do you want to have sex'.Isnt it the more mature thing to do. Asking her what she wants to do? I think these kinds of things are really, really important!
midlandsmissus wrote: » honest to God. That you think it's that wrong to ask someone do they want to have sex, I can't help you.
silverharp wrote: As I said the assumption has to be that nobody is an amateur psychologist therefore if someone wants to operate outside of reasonable conventions then its up to them to express themselves or avoid situations that they cant handle
El_Duderino 09 wrote: » Fine. Read the question as 'body language etc.'.
fullstop wrote: » midlandsmissus wrote: » honest to God. That you think it's that wrong to ask someone do they want to have sex, I can't help you. Did you ask him the question in return, yes or no? You keep avoiding the point.
midlandsmissus wrote: » I'm never bullied by anyone to reveal more about my private life than I want to. I wonder if that poster can articulate why exactly he is offended at a boyfriend asking a girlfriend if she wants sex. What exactly is he annoyed about?
neonsofa wrote: Relationships change and can become abusive over time. If we agree that he doesn't ask every time, whats to stop him taking advantage and assuming consent incorrectly? Why does the relationship status make the assumption ok? Or is it that he reads certain social cues that inform him that i have given consent? Which can also happen between two strangers.
neonsofa wrote: » He made her sign a contract in advance i think so... bad example?!
fullstop wrote: » midlandsmissus wrote: » What have you contributed to this thread? F all. Go back to your toybox. Brilliant :rolleyes: Don't think it's up to you who posts in the thread...
midlandsmissus wrote: » What have you contributed to this thread? F all. Go back to your toybox.
midlandsmissus wrote: » Get over yourself. Being pushed 2-3 times on an issue about your sex life. I have the right to answer what I want. Sorry, would you like to reveal loads of details about your sex life? Will I ask you them right now? Because remember your have to answer them!
El_Duderino 09 wrote: » Hold on, hold on. We're at cross purposes with consent in relationships. Consent isn't necessarily assumed in relationships and of course these things can change in relationships over time. Agreement can change and in a relationship and it's up to the couple to decide on that they agree to. That's a high standard and I agree. You seem to have a much lower standard for hook-ups where cursory body language etc. is enough to gain consent. Why would the standard be lower in casual relationship than long term relationship?
midlandsmissus wrote: » How on earth is it odd? 'Do you want to have sex?' I think we are both mind boggled by the other.
midlandsmissus wrote: » And I dont think it's up to you say who's fill of it either. Dont give it out if you can't take it back pet. Go crying to Mammy now
Maguined wrote: » You are only being asked to reveal what you were already willing to reveal about your partner. If you find it okay to reveal your partner asks you each time "do you want to have sex" I cannot understand why you would be uncomfortable revealing whether you ask him the same in return?
El_Duderino 09 wrote: » You mean fiction movies and books aren't always good role models for real life? You might be on to something there! Keep going with that train of thought
El_Duderino 09 wrote: » If nobody is supposed to be an amateur psychologist then wouldn't the sensible thing be to ask what the intentions are and actually gain consent? Are you actually working from the assumption that consent is always assumed unless actively revoked? Is that why you keep mentioning psychology? I see the amateur psychology in this scenario as being the mind reading of the other person's intentions unless you actually gain consent. I can see your position if your assuming default consent. I disagree with it but it would explain why you keep mentioning psychology.
neonsofa wrote: My post was asking you why you allow for implied consent in the case of a relationship (which could turn abusive at any time) and not in casual relationship ships/ONS. I was asking you to elaborate on how one would assume consent in a relationship if not based on the same social cues as in a casual relationship.
givyjoe wrote: All aboard the crazy train.. The characters may be fictional, the representation of actual normal human behaviour isn't.
El_Duderino 09 wrote: » A relationship affords the opportunity to establish the agreement over time. It's always subject to change so consent isn't necessarily assumed. There's trust involved which means you can make an agreement over time and then change the agreement and so on. Very little of that applies to people who just met or don't know each other well. Time, trust and an agreement. Anybevrn then, as you keep pointing out, consent can't necessarily be assumed. Without those elements above, you to be willing to substitute body language etc. as if they're equal or even similarly reliable
El_Duderino 09 wrote: » I hope you never see an action movie, or porn. You'll probably think it's real life behaviour too?
midlandsmissus wrote: » If 80% of women were getting into college in Ireland, and only 20% of men were, I would introduce a gender quota for each gender, because who wants that kind of imbalance? Who would want to keep the other gender out of opportunities.
midlandsmissus wrote: » Ive had two boyfriends, who, everytime we had sex, asked, 'do you want to have sex'. Isnt it the more mature thing to do. Asking her what she wants to do? I think these kinds of things are really, really important!
midlandsmissus wrote: » You misquote me. I said if there were a scenario of severe imbalance in in education similar to the ratio in the government, 80% one gender allowed in, and 20% the other, I would introduce a gender quota for each gender. This similar imbalance ratio does not exist.
