Recruitment for British army soars in Republic of Ireland

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I wasn't talking about his war activity (large parts of it were luck imo) I was talking about his career in general and he ended the war with a couple of atrocities that he should have faced trial over imo. Britain being on the winning side and with it's UN veto probably saved him from that.

Such as?

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Such as?

We are way off topic. If you don't know what Churchill stood over in his career then I suggest you research him.

Muckie

My great grand father fought and died at the Somme in WW1.

My Dad and Uncle served in the British Army in the 60's, left before the troubles.

They learned a trade and skills, became truck mechanics.

Older brother signed up(he always wanted an adventure) and served with them for a few years, just before the troubles ended.

Unfortunately he was involved in some engagements in the North.

Eventually he was discharged, have to say it messed up his head, glad he's still alive, but has caused issues within the family over the years.

Have a Son myself, have no problem telling him about the family history, but wouldnt recommend it.

Professor Moriarty

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I wasn't talking about his war activity (large parts of it were luck imo) I was talking about his career in general and he ended the war with a couple of atrocities that he should have faced trial over imo. Britain being on the winning side and with it's UN veto probably saved him from that.

Well, his leadership during the war defined him and his career, and while luck played a part, he was an outstanding figurehead for Britain. I also doubt if there was any leader of any country during the war who couldn't have subsequently faced trial over atrocities. War is a dirty business.

Anyway, as you say, focusing on Churchill's life is veering off topic.

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Well, his leadership during the war defined him and his career, and while luck played a part, he was an outstanding figurehead for Britain. I also doubt if there was any leader of any country during the war who couldn't have subsequently faced trial over atrocities. War is a dirty business.

Anyway, as you say, focusing on Churchill's life is veering off topic.

Seems judgement is only reserved for Dev. (and we know why - he had the temerity to stand up to de realm) Churchill gets a pass from the empire sycophants.

feargale wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

The Catholic Church had its grip on the Irish state.

Before you make that kind of statement you should study the part played by Cosmo Lang in the deposition of King Edward VIII.

A Little Pony wrote: »

If you don't understand the power the Church had on the Irish state, then I can do nothing for you. De Valera wanted the Church to have major influence on Irish life.

I take it you are not majoring in history. The fact is that Dev resisted attempts by McQuaid and others to make the Constitution even more Catholic. In fact it caused a serious rift between both men who had been firm friends before that (connections to the same school, a common interest in rugby etc.) Make what you like of that but study the facts before you post.

A Little Pony wrote: »

We saw an example of that when the Pope made a visit and the huge crowd.

I dare say a bigger crowd than the head of the Church of England ever drew in Northern Ireland. But credit that to smaller numbers rather than to less triumphalism.

A Little Pony wrote: »

'Blind eye'. An article in the Irish times points out that the establishment in the 1930s turned a blind eye to this and knew well about the abuse.

It ill behoves a DUP supporter to point the finger. Read up on Paisley's attempts to deflect attention from Kincora House. If you have any doubts ask Ed Moloney about it.

It is you who is in denial about the role De Valera played in putting the Catholic Church on a pedestal in Irish society. He was very much in favour of promoting the Church.

A Little Pony wrote: »

It is you who is in denial about the role De Valera played in putting the Catholic Church on a pedestal in Irish society. He was very much in favour of promoting the Church.

We know that. Anything else?

FrancieBrady wrote: »

We are way off topic. If you don't know what Churchill stood over in his career then I suggest you research him.

you don't know then, you just know you don't like him.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

you don't know then, you just know you don't like him.

I do. Feel free to speculate all you want.

[Deleted User]

Instead of Irish people feeling they need to defend anything, they should wise up to the reality of the collaboration of the British state and far more British people than Irish people with Nazi Germany for years. It makes anything Dev might have done ineffably trivial.

But our apologists for Empire really don't like that "We joined WW II to save the Jews" myth to be exploded by highlighting this reality. Time to go on the attack.

British collaboration with Nazi Germany

Bundesarchiv_Bild_102-17964_Ordensburg_Kr%C3%B6ssinsee_Herzog_von_Windsor.jpg

And Her Majesty doing a Nazi salute:

And a major swastika-draped Nazi funeral on the streets of London in the 1930s:

Anybody but those damned communists.

feargale

A Little Pony wrote: »

It is you who is in denial about the role De Valera played in putting the Catholic Church on a pedestal in Irish society. He was very much in favour of promoting the Church.

What a pathetic response to my points. I was expecting you to attempt to dissect them line by line, but I clearly overestimated you. Would you go away like a good little fellow and get some learning and education and then come back and talk to us. There is more to life than drums and tattoos.
When I see a fool looking over his fence and obsessing about the weeds in his neighbour's garden I shudder to imagine the state of his own garden,

Deleted User wrote: »

Instead of Irish people feeling they need to defend anything, they should wise up to the reality of the collaboration of the British state and far more British people than Irish people with Nazi Germany for years. It makes anything Dev might have done ineffably trivial.

But our apologists for Empire really don't like that "We joined WW II to save the Jews" myth to be exploded by highlighting this reality. Time to go on the attack.

British collaboration with Nazi Germany

And Her Majesty doing a Nazi salute:

And a major swastika-draped Nazi funeral on the streets of London in the 1930s:

Anybody but those damned communists.

it was bull**** when you posted it 11 months ago and and it is bull**** now.

I know in your mind if you say something often enough, it must be the truth, but that really isn't the case.

feargale wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

It is you who is in denial about the role De Valera played in putting the Catholic Church on a pedestal in Irish society. He was very much in favour of promoting the Church.

What a pathetic response to my points. I was expecting you to attempt to dissect them line by line, but I clearly overestimated you. Would you go away like a good little fellow and get some learning and education and then come back and talk to us. There is more to life than drums and tattoos.
When I see a fool looking over his fence and obsessing about the weeds in his neighbour's garden I shudder to imagine the state of his own garden,

Never had a tattoo in my life, just shows how intelligent you are, not very. No matter the reality of De Valera being involved in the Church getting its vice grip on the Irish state, it is something you should accept. It is just Irish history.

A Little Pony wrote: »

Never had a tattoo in my life, just shows how intelligent you are, not very. No matter the reality of De Valera being involved in the Church getting its vice grip on the Irish state, it is something you should accept. It is just Irish history.

Everybody knows that Dev involved the church. Just like another church was at the heart of the NI administration.

Anything else?

feargale

feargale wrote: »

What a pathetic response to my points. I was expecting you to attempt to dissect them line by line, but I clearly overestimated you. Would you go away like a good little fellow and get some learning and education and then come back and talk to us. There is more to life than drums and tattoos.
When I see a fool looking over his fence and obsessing about the weeds in his neighbour's garden I shudder to imagine the state of his own garden,

A Little Pony wrote: »

Never had a tattoo in my life,just shows how intelligent you are, not very. No matter the reality of De Valera being involved in the Church getting its vice grip on the Irish state, it is something you should accept. It is just Irish history.

A drum?

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Never had a tattoo in my life, just shows how intelligent you are, not very. No matter the reality of De Valera being involved in the Church getting its vice grip on the Irish state, it is something you should accept. It is just Irish history.

Everybody knows that Dev involved the church. Just like another church was at the heart of the NI administration.

Anything else?

What Church had control over NI?

A Little Pony wrote: »

What Church had control over NI?

There are several of them.
The DUP is controlled by dogma and religious fundamentalism to this day. That stops any modernising/normalising of the state.
I said on another thread that they are the nearest thing Europe has to Islamic fundamentalists. And dogma-wise that isn't a great distance either.

ohnonotgmail

FrancieBrady wrote: »

There are several of them.
The DUP is controlled by dogma and religious fundamentalism to this day. That stops any modernising of the state.
I said on another thread that they are the nearest thing Europe has to Islamic fundamentalists. And dogma-wise that isn't a great distance either.

that is very harsh on islamic fundamentalists.

feargale

A Little Pony wrote: »

What Church had control over NI?

It would be impossible for one church to control NI since none had an overall majority.

You have a Paisleyite hang-up about church control in the South. That is in the past. It was not unique in its time. A 19th century geography book could say of Sweden: " The state religion is Lutheranism and none other is tolerated." But typically of those who dislike the Irish or are ashamed of being Irish, you draw the chronological and geographical lines where it suits you. No mention of historical oppression of Catholics, Unitarians, Jews etc in Ireland as well as Great Britain. No mention of the bar on Catholics acceding to certain positions in the UK to this day.

feargale wrote: »

No mention of the bar on Catholics acceding to certain positions in the UK to this day.

such as?

ohnonotgmail

Fratton Fred wrote: »

such as?

head of state for one.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

feargale wrote: »

No mention of the bar on Catholics acceding to certain positions in the UK to this day.

such as?

I am surprised you give it a response, what a load of absolute nonsense that post was.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

What Church had control over NI?

There are several of them.
The DUP is controlled by dogma and religious fundamentalism to this day. That stops any modernising/normalising of the state.
I said on another thread that they are the nearest thing Europe has to Islamic fundamentalists. And dogma-wise that isn't a great distance either.

Comparing a democratic party which is the largest in Northern Ireland to ISIS, absolutely ludicrous.

BalcombeSt4

Following in the footsteps of Tom Barry & James Connolly & dozens of Provo & INLA men.

A Little Pony wrote: »

I am surprised you give it a response, what a load of absolute nonsense that post was.

Comparing a democratic party which is the largest in Northern Ireland to ISIS, absolutely ludicrous.

You need to look up the meaning of 'comparison'.
I didn't do that. I said very clearly that 'they are the nearest thing to'

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

I am surprised you give it a response, what a load of absolute nonsense that post was.

Comparing a democratic party which is the largest in Northern Ireland to ISIS, absolutely ludicrous.

You need to look up the meaning of 'comparison'.
I didn't do that. I said very clearly that 'they are the nearest thing to'

Mentioning the DUP alongside ISIS is silly.

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

head of state for one.

Not so.

A Little Pony wrote: »

Mentioning the DUP alongside ISIS is silly.

They have the same beliefs on a number of things.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Not so.

The head of state cannot be a Catholic or any other faith because Britain is a Church state essentially with the King or Queen being the head of that church.