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The End for Youghal?

Isambard

and other lines

http://www.eveningecho.ie/cork-news/midleton-youghal-line-may-formally-shut/2572831/

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Quackster

Don't worry, the 'obstructionists' are being dealt with.

Del.Monte

Mallow/Tralee will also make a fine Greenway in due course.

BoatMad

Del.Monte wrote: »

Mallow/Tralee will also make a fine Greenway in due course.

Im looking forward to the Dublin cork Greenway !, think of the fun of trundling through the remains of Limerick Junction on my bicycle and explaining to the grandkids that " big engines, the size of which you have never seen , used to roar through here , with 1000s of passenger a week", " yeah right grandad, pul the other one "

whisky_galore

Quackster wrote: »

Don't worry, the 'obstructionists' are being dealt with.

We shall await with bated breath.

Hopefully it won't take as long as the other railway project in Kerry, the one we were promised in no uncertain terms would be up and running by now...

Quackster

whisky_galore wrote: »

We shall await with bated breath.

Hopefully it won't take as long as the other railway project in Kerry, the one we were promised in no uncertain terms would be up and running by now...

That's coming along nicely. As with a great many other infrastructure projects in this state, a woefully unrealistic timeframe was peddled by our magnificent public representatives.

I must say I find the sheer contempt towards greenways by some here to be rather baffling. Denying rural communities a real tangible benefit now out of some deluded notion that it will ever make sense to reopen many of these railways is, well, deluded.

hytrogen

I work with suicide prevention amongst many other established voluntary help centres in areas like Youghal.
With the amount of weekly suicide attempts in and around Youghal and similar coastal towns that desperately need investment, in infrastructure and amenities. A few shillings towards reopening the line and reconnecting the town with the rest of the county and country would be the best incentive anyone can give to the town in these dark days.

end of the road

Quackster wrote: »

That's coming along nicely. As with a great many other infrastructure projects in this state, a woefully unrealistic timeframe was peddled by our magnificent public representatives.

I must say I find the sheer contempt towards greenways by some here to be rather baffling. Denying rural communities a real tangible benefit now out of some deluded notion that it will ever make sense to reopen many of these railways is, well, deluded.

it's not deluded. none of us can say that it will never make sense to reopen these railways. it clearly doesn't make sense to reopen them at the moment, but in generations to come when dublin is hopefully sorted and maxed out with the other cities on their way to being the same, areas along these former transport corridors could be right for development. granted none of us will be here.
simply throwing a greenway on a line for the sake of it isn't the best option either. the important thing is insuring what former rail lines that haven't been abandoned remain in state hands and if needed can be reinstated as a railway as easily as possible.

Banjoxed

hytrogen wrote: »

I work with suicide prevention amongst many other established voluntary help centres in areas like Youghal.
With the amount of weekly suicide attempts in and around Youghal and similar coastal towns that desperately need investment, in infrastructure and amenities. A few shillings towards reopening the line and reconnecting the town with the rest of the county and country would be the best incentive anyone can give to the town in these dark days.

You'll get the Trump-eens who would love to close 'focking everything' frothing at the mouth over that proposal..

hytrogen

Banjoxed wrote:

You'll get the Trump-eens who would love to close 'focking everything' frothing at the mouth over that proposal..

...What???

hytrogen

Quackster wrote:

I must say I find the sheer contempt towards greenways by some here to be rather baffling. Denying rural communities a real tangible benefit now out of some deluded notion that it will ever make sense to reopen many of these railways is, well, deluded.

And deranged ideas of depriving greater economic prosperity to said rural economies isn't? Deluded he be but he sees the finite economic prospects of it through those rose tinted glasses.

Quackster

hytrogen wrote: »

And deranged ideas of depriving greater economic prosperity to said rural economies isn't? Deluded he be but he sees the finite economic prospects of it through those rose tinted glasses.

Not at all. I'm all for balanced infrastructure investment between Dublin and the regions but the funds for investment are finite and must be prioritised towards infrastructure projects that will provide the maximum economic and social return.

In the case of Youghal, the first priority ought to be the Castlemartyr bypass and completing the N25 to Cork, something that should have been done a long time ago.

BTW, don't dismiss the economic and social potential of greenways. Us folk in Kerry aren't.

whisky_galore

end of the road wrote: »

none of us can say that it will never make sense to reopen these railways.

Within reason, there were railways built in isolated areas that never made sense, even in the days when the only competition was horse and cart.

hytrogen

Quackster wrote:

BTW, don't dismiss the economic and social potential of greenways. Us folk in Kerry aren't.

Agreed, the old Cahersiveen line is a brilliant place to cycle along, especially along that strip of the ring, it's lethal roads though. Even though I'd prefer to leave the car behind when I'm working down there I'd be weary to cycle it with all the buses and trucks flying around the bends.

loyatemu

Quackster wrote: »

Don't worry, the 'obstructionists' are being dealt with.

that sounds a bit ominous, like they're going to end up as part of the greenway.

n97 mini

hytrogen wrote: »

I work with suicide prevention amongst many other established voluntary help centres in areas like Youghal.
With the amount of weekly suicide attempts in and around Youghal and similar coastal towns that desperately need investment, in infrastructure and amenities. A few shillings towards reopening the line and reconnecting the town with the rest of the county and country would be the best incentive anyone can give to the town in these dark days.

I'm not putting down the good work you do (fair play) but two things strike me about this post. Re-opening the line will only connect Youghal to Cork. There is already a road network (with buses) allowing people to travel far wider range of places. I doubt re-opening the line will make any difference to the problem.

The other thing is that I heard a lad on the radio recently, from Kerry. He made the point that Dublin can't solve your problems, they have to be solved by the locals, learning skills and establishing their own businesses.

whisky_galore

n97 mini wrote: »

I'm not putting down the good work you do (fair play) but two things strike me about this post. Re-opening the line will only connect Youghal to Cork. There is already a road network (with buses) allowing people to travel far wider range of places. I doubt re-opening the line will make any difference to the problem.

Cork city, or specifically the southside has had a spate of these so it's not just isolated rural areas or coastal towns. Simply reopening a railway line is not a magic bullet solution.

end of the road

areopening it (not that it will happen) would be a good way of encouraging people who wouldn't have thought about public transport before, to use it as an alternative to the car. existing roads with busses aren't really a good reason not to reopen it, it's whether it would generate enough traffic in it's own right.

Itssoeasy

end of the road wrote: »

areopening it (not that it will happen) would be a good way of encouraging people who wouldn't have thought about public transport before, to use it as an alternative to the car. existing roads with busses aren't really a good reason not to reopen it, it's whether it would generate enough traffic in it's own right.

And I'd agree that there wouldn't be much hope for youghal reopening if cobh juntion to Midleton was still one with nature but it isn't. It doesn't just connect youghal to cork. It connects to cork which connects to the wider rail network on the island.

Isambard

you'll be looking for a through service to Tuam next.

Isambard

hytrogen wrote: »

I work with suicide prevention amongst many other established voluntary help centres in areas like Youghal.
With the amount of weekly suicide attempts in and around Youghal and similar coastal towns that desperately need investment, in infrastructure and amenities. A few shillings towards reopening the line and reconnecting the town with the rest of the county and country would be the best incentive anyone can give to the town in these dark days.

Youghal does need help , as does many a Town of a similar nature, but for what it would cost to re-open the line, several business initiatives could be set up bringing real jobs to the Town and helping it shift from being a seaside town.

It's not "several shillings", it's many millions of Euro. A railway line would not bring money into the Town it would export people to work in the City, which doesn't help the local economy much.

c montgomery

I live in youghal and there is no need to waste money on this. Ideally spend any money improving the road from killeagh to castlemarter. It's full of potholes, dangerous to drive on a dirty night and was closed for 3 weeks this year due to flooding.

Nomis21

" Irish Rail pointed out that while it is no longer obliged to operate train services on closed lines, it has to carry out structural inspections on the 387 bridges located on such routes to ensure their functionality and safety"

Don't these bridges need to be inspected even if the rail lines are formally closed?

The bridges could still collapse or get damaged at any time.

Quackster

Nomis21 wrote: »

" Irish Rail pointed out that while it is no longer obliged to operate train services on closed lines, it has to carry out structural inspections on the 387 bridges located on such routes to ensure their functionality and safety"

Don't these bridges need to be inspected even if the rail lines are formally closed?

The bridges could still collapse or get damaged at any time.

Once the lines are formally abandoned, Irish Rail can transfer ownership (and responsibility) to the relevant county councils.

Del.Monte

c montgomery wrote: »

I live in youghal and there is no need to waste money on this. Ideally spend any money improving the road from killeagh to castlemarter. It's full of potholes, dangerous to drive on a dirty night and was closed for 3 weeks this year due to flooding.

You'll be getting your way so and in twenty years time you'll probably be one of those shouting that the railway should be put back. :rolleyes:

MGWR

Del.Monte wrote: »

c montgomery wrote: »

I live in youghal and there is no need to waste money on this. Ideally spend any money improving the road from Killeagh to Castlemarter. It's full of potholes, dangerous to drive on a dirty night and was closed for 3 weeks this year due to flooding.

You'll be getting your way so and in twenty years time you'll probably be one of those shouting that the railway should be put back. :rolleyes:

For my part, I'm not against both. But having the government controlling both is a conflict of interest, and their preference for close to a century has been towards roads. These days, no matter how much the roads are improved (they won't get emptier), not having rail as alternative (which bypasses roads) means a detriment to not only commerce but quality of life.

Carawaystick

MGWR wrote: »

For my part, I'm not against both. But having the government controlling both is a conflict of interest, and their preference for close to a century has been towards roads. These days, no matter how much the roads are improved (they won't get emptier), not having rail as alternative (which bypasses roads) means a detriment to not only commerce but quality of life.

But the N25 connects Youghal to Dungarvan and Waterford, as well as Middleton & Cork, whereas there will be no railway in Deise

MGWR

Carawaystick wrote: »

But the N25 connects Youghal to Dungarvan and Waterford, as well as Middleton & Cork, whereas there will be no railway in Deise

I'd like to know what that means. All railways must strictly parallel all national routes or motorways?

There used to be a railway that connected Cork to An Deise too. But some of that is being greenwayed, which means no use as far as commerce.

My prior point stands. If you're the government and take over both main land-based modes of transport, then don't favour one over the other, and don't keep things in the 20th century as far as technology either.

Carawaystick

My point is that opening the railway from Middleton to Youghal will only ever connect Youghal towards Cork, whereas improvements on the road connect Youghal to Cork, *and* Cork to Waterford. Which is a better return on investment. The terrain from Youghal to Dungarvan is difficult for a railway, which is why there was never one built, with the only way ever being through Cork and Mallow.
If Cork and Waterford are to get good transport connectivity, a road seems the most obvious method.

end of the road

Carawaystick wrote: »

My point is that opening the railway from Middleton to Youghal will only ever connect Youghal towards Cork, whereas improvements on the road connect Youghal to Cork, *and* Cork to Waterford. Which is a better return on investment. The terrain from Youghal to Dungarvan is difficult for a railway, which is why there was never one built, with the only way ever being through Cork and Mallow.
If Cork and Waterford are to get good transport connectivity, a road seems the most obvious method.

or we could do both. it's what normal countries (even ones similar to us) do.

Quackster

end of the road wrote: »

or we could do both. it's what normal countries (even ones similar to us) do.

Yes we should. Where there is clear justification such as with Navan.

Just because there once was a railway to a country town is not sufficient reason, in and of itself, that it should ever be reopened.