We've to make sure that consent is a concept that every person having sex or sexual contact is aware of and sees as an integral part of the process.
The_Kew_Tour wrote: » Personally cant stand her ad think she is a proper self obsessed famer, but the figures for sexual assault on women is scary. No woman should ever feel in such danger
Arghus wrote: » A lot of posters on here have pooh poohed the veracity of the numbers, methods and conclusions of various reports and studies that other posters have referenced, which support the argument of relatively high instances of sexual assault towards women. Now, genuine question - We all read a lot about these statistics, 40% , 1 in 3, etc,etc. I'd like to know how real they are. So, I'd be interested to see the contrary evidence, the research that shows that sexual assault towards women is overstated. It's out there right...
ash23 wrote: » Would the same apply if out with your mate and he's about to head off home with some girl who is very drunk? Or looks young? Would it be common to say to him "I think you should forget that one, she's too drunk, not worth the risk" or ask him if he's checked for sure she's over 17 etc.
ash23 wrote: » And to be honest when I see the victim blaming posts or comments about personal responsibility or women "changing their minds" about whether they've been assaulted or not, I am not convinced that there isn't a problem with how parts of society view that violation of women.
BoatMad wrote: » I personally like to understand what the term " sexual assault " actually means to many people IN the non fatal offences against the person act assault is generally defined other then : No such offence is committed if the force or impact, not being intended or likely to cause injury, is in the circumstances such as is generally acceptable in the ordinary conduct of daily life and the defendant does not know or believe that it is in fact unacceptable to the other person. SO, while " groping etc " might be a distasteful " social " practice , its clearly not intended to cause injury. only asking , cause I feel the definition for some people is anyone laying a hand on a women is " assault "
Can't find an Irish legal definition of indecent assault but seems to be any sexual touching other than rape where there's no consent or no ability to give consent.
Deleted User wrote: » Are you serious? Have you been to a party where things turned ugly, sex, violence, drugs etc? Not sure if it needs spelling out, but will do. The fellows who were there denied it. Obviously enough...did you think they'd turn themselves in? The friend I have in the group, who was allegedly one of the witnesses, tells me he was downstairs and knew something bad was happening, and regrets not going upstairs to intervene. The Gardai say it definitely happened, but the victim wouldn't go further.
Sweetemotion wrote: » As a man I've been woke up a couple of times from partners and one night stands receiving oral sex. Was I sexually assaulted and should those women be spending years in prison?
me_right_one wrote: » I'm not saying YOU changed your mind, but there is an undercurrent (as the subject of this thread, Ms. O'Neill, is guilty of feeding into) of "we women are ALWAYS the victim, men are AWLAYS at fault" creeping into social media. This notion of "rape culture" is the latest version of it, and to be honest, its bollox. It has to stop, A) because its watering down the real "rape cultures" that DO exist in Pakistan, Afghanistan etc., and because it will result in innocent men going to jail. Your argument that awareness around consent should be to the fore is absolutely spot on. But SJW's like Louise O'Neill and her "rape culture" accusations, are causing the issue more harm than good.
HiGlo wrote: » I'm not sure if I'll manage to post this without sounding like a feminist. I'm distinctly not (for the record). As a female, my own understanding of rape culture is a society that allows sexist/chauvinistic behaviour, or stuff like objectification of women in a sexual way, cat calling, random groping on nights out (or wherever) etc.. to go unchecked and allow it to become "normal" or to be expected. It's a society that doesn't place huge emphasis on how wrong it is to breach consent, or acknowledge how intimidating some situations can be for women. It's not about the actual act of rape itself, it's more, in my opinion, about the general attitudes or behaviours of the society as a whole that subtly support or reinforce the attitude that rape isn't all that big a deal (perhaps evidenced in sentencing for the crime), or that rape is an unsurprising outcome in some instances eg she was very drunk, scantily dressed etc... This is just my own general interpretation. As to whether I think it exists in Ireland.... Certainly not when compared to places like India, South Africa etc, but I think there is some element of it alright. I don't think I would say that it definitely doesn't exist, but I think there's a strong enough majority that doesn't subscribe to it to keep it at bay. I have never experienced rape myself or know anyone that has, so my knowledge of this whole area is limited but I would imagine that there are rape victims out there who would strongly contradict the notion that rape culture doesn't exist. And I'm sure their own personal experience has entitled them to think that. I have watched both Audrie & Daisy and also The Hunting Ground on Netflix, but I must admit, I didn't watch Louise O'Neill's programme. For me, The Hunting Ground shows a prime example of rape culture. Shockingly so. ETA: Apologies, I'm very aware that my post is referencing only female rape. I fully acknowledge that male rape exists and it's just as wrong as any other kind of rape.
ligerdub wrote: » I'm not even going as far as court cases in this context. I'm speaking purely from the point of view of what happens within the university.
Sweetemotion wrote: » As a man I've been woke up a couple of times from partners and one night stands recieving oral sex. Was I sexually assaulted and should those women be spending years in prison?
timmy880 wrote: » I found this a very insightful post. And I think it highlights one of the main issues in this debate. The acts being labelled as "rape culture" don't necessarily mean rape but could include things like the objectification of women or degrading sexual comments.. I think this is where problem occurs on both sides of the debate. "Rape culture" as a term is used to capture all sorts of behaviour including degrading sexual comments and the female poster above correctly highlights this as being the case. Whereas men see this as a direct reference to their entire gender in Ireland being labelled as rapists. (That's the general opinion I see from reading through the thread).... There is a clear difference between sexually degrading comments and then the act of rape. The fact that both are covered under the "rape culture" umbrella is inaccurate and that's where the debate can fall to pieces at times. Surely a different term is needed.... .
Wibbs wrote: » 1) I'm sorry, but personal anecdote, while of course is personally hurtful and all that may come with that, does not an actual statistic make. Not even close. We go the personal route and we risk reactive mob rule based on eff all. 2) Four in ten, where does that come from? Is it yet another perennial twist on the one in four/five/six(these things rarely agree) stat peddled to the general public since the US college campus Koss study and I use the word "study" extremely loosely? That study, taken as gospel in the Victim Church movement, is so flimsy and full of demonstrable holes it would pass decent muster as a teabag. And yes I can back that up with actual statistics. In any halfway civilised liberal democracy NO crime, no matter how trivial, never mind getting within an asses roar of sexual assault and/or rape has a victim rate even close to 20 odd per cent(well… maybe speeding). And only in the most addled mind, would someone suggest any crime comes within a rate of nearly fifty per cent. You're actually claiming half of all women have been sexually assaulted? You'd want to be a German woman in Russian controlled Berlin post summer 1945 to get near that kinda stat. I call utter nonsense, nay utter bullshít on that statistic. If one was to believe that, then the obvious conclusion would be is that nearly half of all men are guilty of sexual assault/rape. Unless scummy bastards and rapists travel around a lot. Again I call hysterical bollocks of the highest quality. We're through the looking glass here people.
ash23 wrote: » Some of us have explained why it took time to come to terms with being assaulted or why we struggled to accept we have. I refuse to take any personal responsibility for having a few drinks (not falling down drunk or even remotely past being quite tipsy) and going into a friends bed to sleep alone but waking up to find a man assaulting me.
There's a difference between "getting in a fight" and someone randomly walking up and punching you.
mzungu wrote: » Louise O'Neill herself partook in similar shenanigans with her tweet. Is she a part of rape culture too?
nullzero wrote: » Personally I've never groped a woman in such a manner, I wouldn't dream of it, but the double standards are incredible.
cloudatlas wrote: I think without consent yes
Ralf and Florian wrote: Gawd help us if she ever gets to a position of real influence, it'll be a criminal offense to disagree with Louise O Neill.
midlandsmissus wrote: » www.cracked.com/blog/how-men-are-trained-to-think-sexual-assault-no-big-deal This article.
FortySeven wrote: » 2361 sexual offences reported to garda in 2015. Women's aid website. Hardly an epidemic?
Wibbs wrote: » Fúck me. Truly Cracked.com is appropriately named. Han Solo and Indiana Jones, rape icons. Oh yes. Never mind he completely avoids the mixed signals coming from women around this. For a start damn near every romantic novel written by and for women has a hero who acts just like Han Solo and Indiana Jones in the way he notes. The plain fact is a man who acts like that will get more willing attention from women, certainly more than the same man asking for constant consent and permission.
Wibbs wrote: » OK not remotely past tipsy, yet this guy apparently stripped you of your clothing and you didn't notice? Secondly "a man" doesn't quite describe this guy does it? Makes him sound all random and predatory. This is a guy who you knew so well you wanted to be in a relationship with him at one point, who you had sex with a few times beforehand and who you "had a kiss" with that night. Did he cross a boundary? Hell yes he crossed a bloody boundary. Is it understandable why he might have thought this wasn't a boundary? Again yes. Indeed there is. However again this wasn't someone randomly walking up and punching you. This was more akin to a boxing match that went a few rounds and your opponent pulls a sucker punch after the bell rings out. Well out of order, but hardly out of the blue.
Wibbs wrote: » If Sweetemotion identified as a woman and wrote "As a woman I've been woken up a couple of times from partners and one night stands recieving oral sex. Was I sexually assaulted?" I seriously doubt you'd have to "think" about it at all and would automatically go "of course you were sexually assaulted!"
Advbrd wrote: » A guy I worked with reckoned that "sexual harassment" didn't actually exist, it should be referred to as "ugly sexual harassment". It all depended on the looks of the harasser.
cloudatlas wrote: » I take your point completely and I agree with you I didn't look at the wording of it. I suppose the mocking tone of his post put me off. Yes, if a man or woman is woken up by a partner performing unwanted sexual acts that they haven't consented to / rebuff it is unequivocally sexual assault. Thanks for pointing that out.
cloudatlas wrote: Well you should because that is where these cases often go. It is confidential at the reporting stage. It then gets passed to the legal authorities. What bits of this do you not understand. Of course the first course of action is to listen to the victim get their side and then explore it, what kind of course of action, nothing happens until the facts are gathered, what course of action would you follow.
cloudatlas wrote: All I'm saying is that it is positive to encourage victims to come forward, victims who feel alone, isolated and are confused about what has happened to them.
ash23 wrote: » Your comments about women being sexually assaulted and the blame you lay at their door is absolutely disgraceful and if other men in Ireland feel similar then we absolutely have a problem.
You bringing the amount I drank that night into it is exactly the problem.
when he lifted my skirt, pulled aside my underwear
Whether I knew him or not, whether I had slept with him a hundred times or not, whether I was drunk or not is an aside. I am a heavy sleeper so it's partly my fault? I kissed him and had sex with him before so I was giving him the wrong idea?
In what world can you justify a man getting into bed with a girl he knows and sticking his fingers in her vagina with zero invitation to do so?
You dismissing it as less because of those things is exactly the reason I went home and didn't report him. Can you imagine a woman being raped by her boyfriend and reporting it and being met with an attitude like yours? Jesus it defies belief that you think, post and reiterate your victim blaming.
