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The Garda Strike

Kermit.de.frog

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/garda-strike-now-more-likely-as-gra-rejects-offer-1.2849933

Didn't see a thread on this but if I was a criminal i'd be preparing for Christmas.

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oppenheimer1

Zzippy wrote: »

Govt: Right, you're on 500 a week, but we're having a little crisis now and can't afford that, so we're cutting your wages to 400.

Garda: Well ok, boss, but what's the chances of restoring pay when you have a bit more cash?

Govt: Yeah, we'll do that when we have the cash, don't worry about it, it's just a temporary cut.

Garda: Sound.

....

....

Garda: So anyway, boss, now that the good times are back, how about that pay restoration deal you promised?

Govt: Yeah, no, sorry, no can do, that's a pay rise you're talking about, we don't do those...

Garda: But... what about the 5k extra you lads are getting?

Govt: No, you see, that's pay restoration... we could explain but you wouldn't understand the difference.

The good times are not back. Any fool that believes that need their head examined.

Even though politicians pay is a total red herring, and completely unrelated to the garda, teacher or any other action I'll still address it: Politicians pay is linked to senior civil service pay, this was to avoid the situation where they would be seen only to award themselves pay rises. Lansdowne road was negotiated by unions (who only now seem to have discovered the young low paid in their ranks) with a focus on increasing pay for more senior staff back closer to 2008 levels. That is the truth - but doesn't fit your agenda.

oppenheimer1

mynamejeff wrote: »

when the first recruitment started something like 30 000 people applyed for 300 jobs ,

in the latest recruitment 1200 people applied for 600 jobs .

you have to think the quality will suffer

Incorrect. The latest recruitment had 5200 applicants for those posts and the application window was only open for three weeks. This il less granted than 2013 when conditions were far worse but roughly the same as the recruitment drives pre 2008.

So its wrong to say the guards are not attracting applicants. In fact as conditions of employment are improving, numbers of applicants are dropping. There is no correlation it seems between pay abd numbers of applicants, but rather the numbers of applicants depends on the wider conditions in the economy - i.e. jobs in the gardai are safe secure jobs in tough times

tayto lover

Is the Labour Court just trying to get the Garda strike deferred on behalf of the Govt or are they trying to get a resolution? I think it's the former.

Edups

Ted111 wrote: »

Oh you don't think? So you're not sure. Seems there's a lot you don't know about. CIT companies will not be delivering cash to ATMs on Friday. Which is one of the two days that they are filled. They will likely run low.

I can draw pictures for you if necessary.

The Army guard the money vans for banks. No picture required.

Ted111

Edups wrote: »

The Army guard the money vans for banks. No picture required.

I made no comment on who guards the vans.
The vans won't be delivering on Friday.

It seems I do need to draw pictures for you, you simpleton.

end of the road

mynamejeff wrote: »

how about we take it from the Christmas bonus for the dole monkeys who have never worked recession or boom time ?

it would cost more to figure out who they are then it would bring in. if it could be done though then i would agree it's an option but those in genuine need shouldn't be punished for the actions of a few.

mynamejeff wrote: »

or the politicians pay or stop free legal aid for people with 20 or more convictions.

that would go against a fair justice system. people are entitled to legal aid to insure fairness and that one receives a fair chance at defending themselves.

mynamejeff wrote: »

or make the politicians pay or their own transport to and from the dail

i agree with this.

mynamejeff wrote: »

get mick wallace to pay his tax bills

mick wallace does pay his taxes and has paid what he owed.

mynamejeff wrote: »

dock court fines from wages or dole payments would save millions

on what do you base this on. it could potentially cost just as much as you would be hoping to save. all though i believe this is to be done.

mynamejeff wrote: »

set up drunk tanks with a 100 euro charge instead of putting them in ambos

the charges wouldn't be paid and it would cost to much to get the money. do it without the charge and you might be on to something

Thespoofer

I think shoplifting for example will rise in Friday if the strike goes ahead.
If the store detectives catch a thief they can't hold them indefinitely knowing there's no Garda on the way.
Anyways that's my two cents.

end of the road

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

What I wouldn't give for a strong Government to face down these militant unions.

yeah, so that workers rights can be slowly eradicated, and the poor can be left to rot. that's the type of government you want. well, it isn't going to happen. the lessons of vermin like thatcher have been learned, and they're will be plenty of us willing to do what is necessary to insure such a government never gets to power in ireland.

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

As per usual, the populist muppets will buy off the strikers using yours and my money.

our boys and girls deserve a pay rise for the job they do.

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

It's ironically criminal that these incredibly well remunerated public servants would attempt to hold the country to ransom.

the country isn't being and won't be held to ransom by a strike. these public servants aren't remunerated enough. it's criminal that they don't get a better deal.

tayto lover

The posters giving out about Unions are obviously very young.
Had they the experience of working in places where there were no Unions in times gone by then they would have an entirely different attitude. They would have seen how the workers were abused and exploited by unscrupulous bosses. The working conditions many have now were earned for them by the very Unions they complain about today. Sad really that they don't know this.

Barry Badrinath

Edups wrote: »

The Army guard the money vans for banks. No picture required.

No they dont.

Nika Bolokov

The driver of these pay demands is the high cost of living in urban areas, in particular housing. So far the government's main initiative has been to increase tax relief for the rent a room allowance seemingly implying that a good way to provide accommodation is to provide more opportunities for people to live in a strangers box room.

Thus the pay demands are not surprising and reasonable in urban areas. If private sector unions still had power there would be widespread strikes in the private sector too. This shouldn't be about bashing the public sector.

However whilst pay rises are warranted public sector workers will have to get used to the fact that in a successful modern economy jobs that were seen as prestigious in a poor agricultural society are not really going to be really high status in a modern economy with the wealth generated by international trade.

A pay rise is warranted but with Facebook and Google etc in the economy now we simply can't afford extreme rates of public sector pay to match the top end private sector jobs which seems to be where they are pitching themselves.

A moderate increase in the form of a housing allowance based on where you live over a three year time frame taking into account the job security and pension is about it. This should be supplemented by higher salaries for highly skilled guards (Cyber crime etc) and teachers who actually get good results.

hawkelady

Edups wrote: »

Ted111 wrote: »

Oh you don't think? So you're not sure. Seems there's a lot you don't know about. CIT companies will not be delivering cash to ATMs on Friday. Which is one of the two days that they are filled. They will likely run low.

I can draw pictures for you if necessary.

The Army guard the money vans for banks. No picture required.

The army have to work under the guidance from AGS in such instances.. where does that leave them legally if there are no AGS on Friday. Also you are wrong on the escorts too

[Deleted User]

Pressure will be on to suspend the strike on Friday, subject to a ballot. otherwise, they won't be seen to be following the IR process. However, I predict a 1 day strike before a settlement.

FA Hayek

mynamejeff wrote: »

when the first recruitment started something like 30 000 people applyed for 300 jobs ,

in the latest recruitment 1200 people applied for 600 jobs .

you have to think the quality will suffer

I remember the first recruitment drive alright that 30,000 applied for those positions.

Can you post the stats for the second one?

Ted111

The simple point I alluded to was that Cash in Transit companies
had decided not to operate on Friday. I didn't mention why but it would
not be difficult to discern the reasons.
Among them would be in the event of robberies - there will be no police to
preserve evidence at primary or secondary locations. In the event of staff
or their families being held hostage there will be a diminished or non existent garda response.
Apart from the human aspect of injuries or death to staff, from a purely business point of view the CIT companies have a duty of care
to their staff and would be massively legally exposed if they didn't take measures to protect them in the circumstances this week.

As for protection escorts of CIT vans in general - who watches which vans and when is not something known to everybody. There is an official and publicly known policy and then there may be other arrangements that aren't so well known.

Potential-Monke

One thing I haven't seen yet here, which is normally in most threads to do with the Gardai, is if they don't like it, leave. Well, I did.

I left recently, after 10 years. Why? For my mental health. The job gave me serious anxiety, which even manifested itself in physical form on my head. Massive cyst like globules of heroine looking liquid. Doctors hadn't a clue what they were. They gave me medication which worked until it was gone. They cut them out. The genuinely had no idea what they were. 2 weeks away from the place, and my head is perfect again.

When I joined during accelerated recruitment, the times were still good. The wages were appealing, but for 15 months I was on less than the dole. No bother I said. Shur I'll be on savage money soon enough. And I did. For a while. But what I wasn't told were all the deductions. And then the improper lending practices of the credit unions, leading to massive debt in no time. I once looked for 7k to get a decent enough car (a 02 in 2008). They just gave me 10. I signed for it, sure, but having had no access to decent money prior to joining, and being told "shur it's only a fiver a week, we'll give you a ring when on the full wages to sort it", plus the fact I was only 24 and never had more than 2 Bob to rub together, of course I said yes (was terrible at business and economics in school). Fast forward to full wages, and suddenly 150 a week was being taken away. Yes, I signed it, but why was I able to get it in the first place on 150 a week?

Anyway, throw on the higher tax bracket, and the standard wages were crap after all deductions. Overtime was abundant, so I done enough to enjoy myself. Still had a comfortable amount to work with from the standard wage and allowances, but no lavish lifestyle.

Bought a house in 09, affordable, with money left over from basic + allowances, and overtime to pay for a bit of fun. I worked it out that if I didn't want to do overtime, I wasn't stuck.

Fast forward another bit and suddenly the cuts came. As I said, I'm no economist, it bores the ****e out of me. So no, I didn't see it coming, nor did a high percentage of most people (except those of you who like to rub it in our faces that you have an interest in something the rest of us consider boring). Anyway, suddenly I'm earning barely enough to cover bills. Government took the bones of €120 a week off me. Overtime all but gone. Allowances cut. I was very quickly in serious financial bother.

Then, recruitment ban. Older members retiring quick snap so they wouldn't get caught by the incoming cuts to retirement pay, no one to replace them. Crime went up, paperwork doubled, new work practices introduced which extended the time needed to investigate. Less time to investigate. Management who get promoted on their ability to reprimand the lower ranks. Management turning a deaf ear to the needs of the feet on the ground. Halfway decent patrol cars replaced with buckets of ****e. Stab vests bought from the cheapest vendor who was getting rid of gen 1 vests which are on longer being made. Vests which are heavy, uncomfortable, unfit for purpose.

Courts constantly letting the Gardai and public down, but comforting and looking after criminals. A revolving door in prisons. The abuse during the water protests. The lack of any understanding from any sector of government or management. The complete ignorance of our human rights to join a union or be involved in pay talks. The threats that if we didn't do what we were told, we'd be fined. The immediate hatred because someone had a bad experience with a prick of a guard, even though I never even heard of that guard.

I wanted to make a difference. Anyone who talked to me on a night out when I was on the beat often commented that I was one of the sounder guards they ever met. I changed people's opinions on the guards. I never once done someone for something they didn't deserve. I rarely handed out tickets because we have a great thing called discretion. I'd rather educate than chastise. And it worked. The vast majority of those I educated were never to be seen on the Garda system again.

I have a background in customer care. I put my heart and soul into improving first line contact, improving the quality of work and feedback to turn a city dead set against the local Gardai into one who actually respects the Gardai. And it was working.

I left for my mental health, because no matter what I did, I got **** for thanks. Maybe it was my station, but I saved lives from a burning building and got chastised for going into it. The same happened in another station and they got medals. I was rarely thanked for my work, but constantly reprimanded for the smallest of things. It is the most thankless job I have ever worked, and I have worked some **** jobs.

I'm now 33, living back home with my parents, with crippling debt, financial institutions chasing me for money and threatening legal action. The house is up for sale, and I only hope that the sale will cover the majority of my bills. I've started a new job, one which pays 19k a year with no allowances or bonuses. I'm already happier. I'm already appreciated more during training than I have been in 10 years in AGS.

I have respect for 99% of Gardai, about 80% of sergeants, little for inspectors, even less for supers and chiefs, and zero respect for that thing that calls herself commissioner. She should be ashamed to wear the uniform with the way she's carrying on. Her job is to represent the Gardai, not pander to the politicians. I've said it for years, the commissioner should be voted on by the Gardai.

Anyway, I fully back them. Not all are great, but the vast majority are. They work the most thankless job in Ireland in my opinion, and all you keyboard warriors have no idea what the job is like. No one has unless they've worked it. It's so unique, that they're not even allowed talk about it, for fear of imprisonment. That's why the GRA and AGSI are quiet, they are serving members too, and are liable to the same laws and procedures. They have to be extremely careful in what they say.

The whistle blowers, while they are making it aware that there is corruption, they're no angels themselves. They're using personal grievances to accelerate their own agendas, and hiding behind whistle blowing.

Remember folks, the media is owned, and the owner has an agenda. His agenda is rarely in line with AGS. Don't believe everything you read in the rags of today. I'd believe WWN over most of them.

And finally, the deals that were and still are being proposed are the equivalent of shaking the Gardais hand and then spitting on his back. The GRA balloted it's members, they got the reply. They don't need to ballot on any other deal offered, as every deal so far has terms that have already been unilaterally negated by the membership. There will be no more free hours. If anything but full restoration and pay parity, along with no more free hours is accepted, the GRA will have let down its membership again, and it will be the next thing to fall.

(And before anyone asks, no, that's wasn't me in the AMA, I wouldn't have been as nice).

FA Hayek

end of the road wrote: »

mick wallace does pay his taxes and has paid what he owed.

Yes, and in other news the earth is flat and pigs fly.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/wallace-pays-just-23k-of-21m-tax-bill-but-it-should-be-cleared-by-2058-221582.html

fly_agaric

tayto lover wrote: »

The posters giving out about Unions are obviously very young.
Had they the experience of working in places where there were no Unions in times gone by then they would have an entirely different attitude.

Sad thing is I think it is often the opposite.
Unions have allowed themselves to be made completely irrelevant in a lot of the private sector, and not always because terms and conditions are so much better that they are not needed.

Many young people have no experience of a unionised workplace. Even if they believe "in theory" it could be beneficial for them e.g. if they are in a sector with poor pay and conditions; the attitude is often why should some others (in public sector) have unions who sometimes strike when I don't have one (or am not allowed to join a union)?

There is a similar attitude to pensions I think - why is that the public sector joe soap should have a decent pension when these are becoming preserve of top management and professionals in the private sector?

These people will always get their lump sums, equity, ARFs etc when they go
- general worker-bee increasingly gets sfa and will have to rely on the state pension. They can do their bit to maintain the low-low business taxes in future & use the govt. approved Euthanasia Booth in 2056!

[Deleted User]

Potential-Monke wrote: »

The job gave me serious anxiety, which even manifested itself in physical form on my head. 2 weeks away from the place, and my head is perfect again.
.

That could happen in any job, especially if you're not suited to that work.

Potential-Monke wrote: »

And then the improper lending practices of the credit unions, leading to massive debt in no time. I once looked for 7k to get a decent enough car (a 02 in 2008). They just gave me 10. I signed for it, sure, but having had no access to decent money prior to joining, and being told "shur it's only a fiver a week, we'll give you a ring when on the full wages to sort it", plus the fact I was only 24 and never had more than 2 Bob to rub together, of course I said yes (was terrible at business and economics in school). Fast forward to full wages, and suddenly 150 a week was being taken away. Yes, I signed it, but why was I able to get it in the first place on 150 a week?

So, when a criminal said to you "I was only 24 guard, I didn't know better", what exactly did you say in reply?

It wouldn't have been something around personal responsibility would it, by any chance?

Potential-Monke wrote: »

.

I could go on and dissect your post line by line but really i'm not bothered- you're on a "rant". :rolleyes:

tayto lover

[QUOTE=P

So, when a criminal said to you "I was only 24 guard, I didn't know better", what exactly did you say in reply?

It wouldn't have been something around personal responsibility would it, by any chance?

You do know the difference between CRIME and making a poor financial decision don't you?

[Deleted User]

tayto lover wrote: »

[QUOTE=

So, when a criminal said to you "I was only 24 guard, I didn't know better", what exactly did you say in reply?

It wouldn't have been something around personal responsibility would it, by any chance?

You do know the difference between CRIME and making a poor financial decision don't you?

Indeed I do. But I also know the similarities.

tayto lover

Deleted User wrote: »

tayto lover wrote: »

Indeed I do. But I also know the similarities.

It is black and white. There are no similarities.

[Deleted User]

tayto lover wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

It is black and white. There are no similarities.

Ok. If you say so.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

I have a lot of respect for the gardai, and the work they do. I do agree it's a thankless job and i think they should have the publics full support for better pay and better resources. However, ignorance of something because you find it boring is no excuse. I'm sorry life has shat on you like that and you're back at home and stressed out with debts but a 24 year olds no child. It was your responsibility to find out what you were getting yourself into, and cutting your cloth according to your measure. "They gave me more than what I wanted", surely you realised it would be paid back and wasn't actually free money?

Still, best of luck in the future going forward

Potential-Monke

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I could go on and dissect your post line by line but really i'm not bothered- you're on a "rant". :rolleyes:

See, this. This is what I'm talking about. You think you know how everything should work. How every garda should be. How every crime should be investigated, blah, blah, blah. I'm not on a rant. A rant would have been much worse. I'm giving you and the others my opinion, but apparently my opinion is wrong... Yes, I'm shut at finance. But that doesn't excuse those taking advantage of that. People are taken advantage of every day. The credit unions took advantage of the terrible training "wage" recruits are on. Very few got through Templemore without a loan. Lots, including myself, came into Templemore with loans.

And I'll be honest, I couldn't give two continental ****s what you think. I couldn't care less that you could disect my post. Go ahead, be that person. You'll only make yourself out to be the fool, directing an honest post by someone who ended up completely disillusioned by a supposedly cosy job. Yet none of ye, none, have the balls to try it yourselves, covering that with "why should I", "I've no interest in it", blah blah ****ing blah. As I said, anyone that hasn't worked the job has no idea how it works. You simply don't. But ye are more than happy to stand by and direct the outcome for months, a decision a Garda has to make in a split second. Off with ya.

[Deleted User]

Potential-Monke wrote: »

See, this. This is what I'm talking about. You think you know how everything should work. How every garda should be. How every crime should be investigated, blah, blah, blah. I'm not on a rant. A rant would have been much worse. I'm giving you and the others my opinion, but apparently my opinion is wrong... Yes, I'm shut at finance. But that doesn't excuse those taking advantage of that. People are taken advantage of every day. The credit unions took advantage of the terrible training "wage" recruits are on. Very few got through Templemore without a loan. Lots, including myself, came into Templemore with loans.

And I'll be honest, I couldn't give two continental ****s what you think. I couldn't care less that you could disect my post. Go ahead, be that person. You'll only make yourself out to be the fool, directing an honest post by someone who ended up completely disillusioned by a supposedly cosy job. Yet none of ye, none, have the balls to try it yourselves, covering that with "why should I", "I've no interest in it", blah blah ****ing blah. As I said, anyone that hasn't worked the job has no idea how it works. You simply don't. But ye are more than happy to stand by and direct the outcome for months, a decision a Garda has to make in a split second. Off with ya.

In your post, you blame:
The Credit Unions
The Media
The Whistleblowers
The Sergeants
The Inspectors
The Commissioner

You say you're from a "customer care" background, but yet you're 33 and have spent 10 years in AGS.

Sorry, but I don't know where to start.

Allinall

[Deleted User] wrote: »

In your post, you blame:
The Credit Unions
The Media
The Whistleblowers
The Sergeants
The Inspectors
The Commissioner

You say you're from a "customer care" background, but yet you're 33 and have spent 10 years in AGS.

Sorry, but I don't know where to start.

I've read the post, and they haven't blamed anyone- rather explained how they came to leave the force.

[Deleted User]

Allinall wrote: »

I've read the post, and they haven't blamed anyone- rather explained how they came to leave the force.

I'll go back to my "rant" word so.

Potential-Monke

This is why serving members don't come on here and admit it. They get every little detail tore asunder. I've said my bit. I'm not going to say anymore. I'm not here to defend my life choices or explain why.

Allinall

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'll go back to my "rant" word so.

It was far from a rant, as well you know.