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NARGC

Backbarrel

Hi.

I was just wondering if it would be okay to have a thread for all things NARGC related.

There have been some changes this year and I think it would be good to share news and views. I was told that there is a change of venue for the National Clay Shoot this year. It is being held in Ardee on the 9th and 10th of July.

Also there is an EGM coming up some time in June to elect 2 officers after the Vice Chairman passed away and the Hon Treasurer resigned.

That will make the next meeting interesting..

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Backbarrel

mannlicher666 wrote: »

Hopefully today at the AGM we will get a full financial disclosure and update. It is a pity that one could not have gotten a preview of the financials to study beforehand and formulate questions.

The financials were in a separate booklet to the annual report so there was no problem giving them out. Did your county not distribute them?

We looked at the accounts . Audited by Grant Thornton. Looks in order but we were mandated to ask a few questions anyway.

Went to the AGM.

The New National Treasurer presented the accounts slide show presentation on the lot. He was on his feet for about an hour I would say. He went through the financials in great detail answering most of the queries that we had as part of his presentation. He has been the Hon Treasurer since August 6th mind and the speculation before hand was that he would say" that was before my time i don't know anything about that."

Well i can tell you this: I have never seen a more informative a detailed presentation on finance ever. He didn't talk from on high, he spoke in laymans language and laid out the entire year with detailed information as to why an expense was up or down on previous year. For the first time I can say hand on heart that I know how our finances work.

The auditor was there and he only had to answer one question as the Hon. Treasurer completely and openly detailed everything that had gone through the books.

The delegates beside me were not from counties that would traditionally vote for this guy but even they said "F@$k me he knows his stuff.." I said "Lads, He's a Chartered Accountant..and he is up for this"

Some delegates threw some questions at him for the sake of form but he gave detailed answers to all. He was a force.

Delighted for him because he was knocking on the door for many years. very decent guy.

Backbarrel

cavan shooter wrote: »

Tullamore Court. ..I'm in the bar

Tell you one thing.. this Association is fueled on strong whiskey and tall tales!!

I heard more stories about dogs, guns, pheasants ducks etc but do you know what, it was better on Saturday than on Friday. I was a bit of a divided camp thing on the Friday night! Bad vibe, lotsa tension..

cavan shooter

Hopefully that's the end of all the legal ****. I was chatting to lads Saturday night from the other counties but not players one lad said it was personal at this stage and it has to stop.

That if the Chair says white someone will counter just to be a cnut. There not ogres and it's time for the olive branch. One way or the other time moves on and there is work to be done...

p28559

cavan shooter wrote: »

Hopefully that's the end of all the legal ****. I was chatting to lads Saturday night from the other counties but not players one lad said it was personal at this stage and it has to stop.

That if the Chair says white someone will counter just to be a cnut. There not ogres and it's time for the olive branch. One way or the other time moves on and there is work to be done...

players and cnuts does not equal olive branch language.

cavan shooter

p28559 wrote: »

cavan shooter wrote: »

Hopefully that's the end of all the legal ****. I was chatting to lads Saturday night from the other counties but not players one lad said it was personal at this stage and it has to stop.

That if the Chair says white someone will counter just to be a cnut. There not ogres and it's time for the olive branch. One way or the other time moves on and there is work to be done...

players and cnuts does not equal olive branch language.

terms of endearment,

p28559

cavan shooter wrote: »

terms of endearment,

I miss understood you so...lot of that going around these days....

grassroot1

Maybe its time to inject a bit of positivity into this thread.
What areas or issues should the NARGC be working at on the behalf of their shooting members.

berettaman

grassroot1 wrote: »

Maybe its time to inject a bit of positivity into this thread.
What areas or issues should the NARGC be working at on the behalf of their shooting members.

Couldn't agree more. This Executive is after being backed by the Governing Body in a big way. Now hopefully they will have a year without too much drama to get stuck into the work that needs to be done.

A properly run Game meat handling course needs to be out back up and running thats for one thing..
Any other ideas? Items on a wish list?(Within Reason):p

Vegeta

Use of callers for foxes
Relax the derogations for magpies and grey crows

That's two off the top of my head in 5 seconds of thought

cavan shooter

Vegeta wrote: »

Use of callers for foxes
Relax the derogations for magpies and grey crows

That's two off the top of my head in 5 seconds of thought

AND WERE OFF.........lets keep it to a max 5 each to start
1. better support/lobbying with the PTB fighting to stop the wanton destruction of good habitat which is happening.
2. A more "substitution" friendly firearms licensing system...a Firearm is a firearm.
3. A more open approach to membership......"can I join the gun club...no Fek orf" Gun Clubs will be gone in another 20 years....unless you can hold a seance. Need a more National structure.
4. Promotion of the sport and hunting in general.....the last time the NARGC representative was on the Telly, (Prime time) he was embarrassingly ill prepared ganged up on and pistol whipped by a politician and MOC.
5. More help to Clubs from the NARGC Game keeper Grouse or not, most of us are pheasant hunters can we actually focus on that for a while.
As far as the Leitrim site is concerned a couple of lads from that country reckons the only grouse to be found up there is on a scotch bottle on the shelf of Supervalue or the rainbow ballroom

arrowloopboy

Some class of a sub license ,which allows you to hold your firearm while your application for a change over is been sorted out /found after been mislaid/or clarified for the 3rd time ,or in someones locker while their on leave/suffering from stress/ etc etc etc (and can you not use your other ''gun''(shotty) for the dear:rolleyes:,its currently running at 8-10 weeks in the Enniscorthy branch :rolleyes:

ronn

Will the gameshot magazine be given out this year, the licence holder we got a few years ago was a nice touch,

cavan shooter

ronn wrote:

Will the gameshot magazine be given out this year, the licence holder we got a few years ago was a nice touch,

Jesus... don't push too hard

wirehairmax

berettaman wrote: »

Couldn't agree more. This Executive is after being backed by the Governing Body in a big way. Now hopefully they will have a year without too much drama to get stuck into the work that needs to be done.

A properly run Game meat handling course needs to be out back up and running thats for one thing..
Any other ideas? Items on a wish list?(Within Reason):p

The NARGC should disassociate themselves from the Game meat handling course. It is supposed to be a hunting/conservation association not a commercial enterprise facilitating game dealers in ensuring venison is kept rolling in their gate. Up to 2011/2012 you could not be a member of the NARGC if you were involved in the commercial exploitation of ANY game species including deer. This clause in the constitution was amended to specifically exclude deer, just prior to the setting up of the course in 2012. It was a set-up from the beginning, held in gorey <mod snip>. Interestingly enough its not in gorey anymore.

p28559

A rule change for firearms substitution would be great...direct like for like caliber substitution should be the norm

a buy and sell section on the nargc website for members. Must be loads of lads looking for dogs, trailers, etc all year round. The other buy and sell pages are gone to the dogs with restrictions on what you can advertise.

cavan shooter

p28559 wrote:

a buy and sell section on the nargc website for members. Must be loads of lads looking for dogs, trailers, etc all year round. The other buy and sell pages are gone to the dogs with restrictions on what you can advertise.

p28559 wrote:

A rule change for firearms substitution would be great...direct like for like caliber substitution should be the norm

I like that idea a members only section with free downloads including game shot etc would be good.

cavan shooter

wirehairmax wrote:

The NARGC should disassociate themselves from the Game meat handling course. It is supposed to be a hunting/conservation association not a commercial enterprise facilitating game dealers in ensuring venison is kept rolling in their gate. Up to 2011/2012 you could not be a member of the NARGC if you were involved in the commercial exploitation of ANY game species including deer. This clause in the constitution was amended to specifically exclude deer, just prior to the setting up of the course in 2012. It was a set-up from the beginning, held in gorey . Interestingly enough its not in gorey anymore.

think the game handling course is a good idea I heard good feedback but I'd go more for the lobbying of tags to be brought in to control the numbers shot. Chatting to lads from the states recently as soon as you shot your deer the tag goes on there is a conservation element too where the tag can be used to track and trace. You buy the tag you don't have a tag you can't sell the deer. I've no problem with hunting deer for the fridge but solely hunting for profit sickens me. I

Sparks

p28559 wrote: »

A rule change for firearms substitution would be great...direct like for like caliber substitution should be the norm

Um. Out of curiosity, how would you change it from the current system, where like-for-like substitution is pretty straightforward and just takes an FCA1 form?

arrowloopboy

A push for a tagging system on Venison entering the food chain would be extremely welcome ,its not that difficult ,Inland Fisheries can manage it :eek:.

ronn

cavan shooter wrote: »

Jesus... don't push too hard

Do you know what you're problem is, it's like your shooting, you're aiming too high,
:-) :-) :-)

cavan shooter

Sparks wrote:

Um. Out of curiosity, how would you change it from the current system, where like-for-like substitution is pretty straightforward and just takes an FCA1 form?

Maybe a like for like swop if you have a x caliber gun done in the shop not waiting ages.

richiedel123

cavan shooter wrote: »

Maybe a like for like swop if you have a x caliber gun done in the shop not waiting ages.

In the ideal world i would rather if they licensed the man not the gun. Just go into shop buy new gun. They put it on your licence there and then take it home and enjoy it , without jumping through hoops for months waiting to hopefully be granted it in the end

p28559

Sparks wrote: »

Um. Out of curiosity, how would you change it from the current system, where like-for-like substitution is pretty straightforward and just takes an FCA1 form?

last time i changed o/u it took 2.5 months for the paper work to go through. i would recommend a system whereby its a 24/48 hour turn around. as others have said more an authorise the individual rather than the actual firearm. given the level of tasks that can be undertaken online the substitution system should be faster.

p28559

members services should also be expanded to try and negotiate group deals for members...similare notion to the "one gig switch" movement

there was a preferential rate on a credit card, i think, a few years ago.

an approach could be made for:
vehicle insurance
mobile phone deal
hunting clothing
the list could be endless

in my experience companies would line up to get to a market of 20,000 individuals plus their families

the game meat handing course is of great benefit to members who butcher for themselves..it is always going to provide skills to people who would abuse the skills for profit.

cavan shooter

p28559 wrote:

members services should also be expanded to try and negotiate group deals for members...similare notion to the "one gig switch" movement

Was there not something a few years back with discounts on certain hotels etc.

Grizzly 45

Lobby for a FIVE year liscense which may or may not become an EU norm by the end of November this year.

With that get NPWS to cop on with this ridicilous situation of annual deer permits.They could be at least tri or bi annual at this stage.

Lobby also for a five year moratorium on selling of wild venison into the food chain.This will break the "in it for the money" boys in shooters and game dealers.Will also get the national herd a break and also get a proper census done of how many deer there are out there.

Tagging is NOT the way to go belive me! We WILL end up paying for these and it WILL COST you your now pretty much free sport!After all these tags will cost money to print,administer [at civil servant rates] etc. Dont EVER offer suggestions in Ireland that can be given as a excuse for some greedy SOB to print money off our backs.:mad:

Poaching.
Start setting up a more effective way of combating poaching in both deer and winged game.IOW a more responsive poachers hotline and AGS ,NPWS cooperating better with local hunters.Supplying at cost trail cams with SMS function,decoy deer traps,and possibly also "sting" operations on commercial harvesters and game dealers.

Win hearts and minds.
Start pushing a positive image of shooting.In the sense that we do more for conservation and protection of the enviromentin a year than a bunch of rabid spikey haired mutant placard waving antis have in a decade. That means that NARGC affiliated clubs will have to follow a strict protocol of PR relations as well with their community if they want funding.IOW at least one project that shows the club cared for the enviroment in the parish they are in. Show that this is a lifestyle choice,not a hobby anymore.

Lobby for the use of slugs for hunting as well.
Any of those would be a great start.

Sparks

cavan shooter wrote: »

Maybe a like for like swop if you have a x caliber gun done in the shop not waiting ages.

Which would involve cutting the Gardai out of the loop, which would necessitate both a massive cultural shift in the Gardai and a pretty fundamental legislative change. Plus, we hear stories every other week on here of RFDs getting the law even more wrong than local Supers; I'm not sure that if you make the RFD the ultimate arbiter of what is a valid like-for-like swap that that's going to go well. Not that it does with the Gardai, but if they screw up, the Minister doesn't propose changes in the law in response.

richiedel123 wrote: »

In the ideal world i would rather if they licensed the man not the gun.

That would necessitate a fundamental rewrite of the 1925 Firearms Act and everything that followed after it, to bring it back into line with the UK law that existed here prior to 1924. Honestly, that's a pretty massive task, and it requires the Minister to do it.

p28559 wrote: »

last time i changed o/u it took 2.5 months for the paper work to go through. i would recommend a system whereby its a 24/48 hour turn around. as others have said more an authorise the individual rather than the actual firearm. given the level of tasks that can be undertaken online the substitution system should be faster.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Lobby for a FIVE year liscense which may or may not become an EU norm by the end of November this year.

EU "norms" don't really translate to here or we wouldn't have restricted and unrestricted licences, we'd have Classes A through D, and a much better system than the current one

Look, I'm definitively not saying that those are bad ideas - especially since I'm one of the thousands of people who said they were a good idea over the years - but they are things that would require significant changes in the Firearms Act or in the culture of either the DoJ, the Gardai, or both. As such, they're within the aegis of the Minister for Justice and the Commissioner; not the NARGC executive. The executive can lobby for the changes through the FCP with the support of the other shooting bodies, but they can't simply do it directly (and given the last decade or two of history between the NARGC and the PTB before the current executive's time, lobbying is going to be quite... delicate for some years yet and now is a time to be seeking the support of the other shooting bodies rather than making demands on them, which is something I'm pretty certain the new executive has a visceral appreciation of).

In other words, if you set those ideas as goals for the new executive, you're setting goals which physically cannot be met. Set them as aspirations, by all means, but don't hold them up at year's end as hard targets that defined success or failure. Unless you have some ulterior motive for seeing the executive's year judged a failure, of course.

p28559

You can't speed a thing up just by demanding it, especially to go from 10 weeks to 2 days. We're just not a high priority for the Gardai or the DoJ so we're never going to take priority for a Garda Super's time over, say, criminal cases.

it is only a suggested lobbying point not a demand. negotation requires both sides to shift to the common ground.

the gardai time would be better spent if they were freed from basic admin work.

In other words, if you set those ideas as goals for the new executive, you're setting goals which physically cannot be met. Set them as aspirations, by all means, but don't hold them up at year's end as hard targets that defined success or failure. Unless you have some ulterior motive for seeing the executive's year judged a failure, of course.[/QUOTE]

firearms licence review is not in the gift of any executive. discussion is essential in creating policy. what ever they do decide to pursue needs to be set in framework which makes they work put in identifiable, quantifable so that mud can not be thrown at them. the work they do is voluntary and needs to be acknowledged.

cavan shooter

p28559 wrote:

Unless you have some ulterior motive for seeing the executive's year judged a failure, of course.

[/quote]

Always the conspiracy...ðŸ˜† even our friends across the water have problems with licensing I am of the opinion it will never be made easy. There are times I think the hassle and awkwardness is part of the......do I really need to go through this ****....section of the application.

In fairness they are not all anti gun either. I know a 17 yro who when he applied for a shotgun was "invited" in for a chat. The same Super asked him about school and football, shooting and reminisced with him about shooting rabbits with his Dad's gun as a kid growing up on a farm. Told him to be safe and enjoy himself it's a great way to get exercise, spoke about dogs and ducks. The kid then asked him why he called him in for the interview, I must say the answer was peachy......"to see you were normal". Love that story.

Sparks

Wrong attribution in that quote CS, I said that, not p28559 and I was referring to the internal NARGC row rather than an external third party.