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Dairy Chit Chat- Please read Mod note in post #1

Timmaay

24/6/16

Recently we saw three posters close their accounts over disagreements in the dairy threads. While there is a lot of frustration and discontent with current milk prices and the processing industry, the recent tendency for dairy threads to become tit-for-tat arguments isn’t tolerable for those not involved.

All farming sectors go through difficult periods and during such times there may need to be changes in how threads are moderated.

Dairy threads are going to be more closely monitored and subject to stricter moderation for a while.

To that end we won’t tolerate baiting of posters, constantly reviving old arguments, posters with agendas or crusading for a cause.

Whether it’s discussion of the business or politics of the dairy or other sectors, we expect civility and tolerance toward each other and other opinions as diversity of opinion is needed as a source of different ways of looking at a situation.

"The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress." - Joseph Joubert

Also please be aware that what you may post as light-hearted banter can be read totally differently by someone adversely affected by the subject matter and evoke a reaction you hadn’t intended.

The ‘Off-Season’ forum, and its anonymous posting, is available for anyone to chat about their situation.

The Mod Team.

10 away from the 10000 posts! Frazz I think it's fair to say this thread has been a success!

Indeed it was! First thread can be found here- http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056872221

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[Deleted User]

Keepgrowing wrote: »

That's the one

Im sure no copyright infringements will happen now.
http://www.albutt.com/yardscraper.html

Dawggone

Anyone use young, unproven but genomic tested Bulls?

I used a few a couple of years ago. They are now calving down. One of them would lie down in the parlor rather than be milked...I'd never seen that before so persisted for a week. Happy meal.
Another calved Thur and is at the same craic. Happy meal tomorrow morning. Same fecking sire!!
Both heifers out of good producing, docile cows.
An ounce of breeding...

Timmaay

Stan uses a fair few of them and gets on well enough I think? The only particular bad unproven bull I've used here the last few years is KSK, utterly crap milker and small cows so won't even make much as culls. And I got 9 more of them coming into the parlour next spring ugh.

Mooooo

Timmaay wrote: »

Stan uses a fair few of them and gets on well enough I think? The only particular bad unproven bull I've used here the last few years is KSK, utterly crap milker and small cows so won't even make much as culls. And I got 9 more of them coming into the parlour next spring ugh.

Feck I've a shot of heifers off him coming in. I see the new aut catalogue is out for pg they have dropped em all by the 71. Any other change is ti do with the normal runs

freedominacup

Dawggone wrote: »

Anyone use young, unproven but genomic tested Bulls?

I used a few a couple of years ago. They are now calving down. One of them would lie down in the parlor rather than be milked...I'd never seen that before so persisted for a week. Happy meal.
Another calved Thur and is at the same craic. Happy meal tomorrow morning. Same fecking sire!!
Both heifers out of good producing, docile cows.
An ounce of breeding...

But they are "proven" dawg. Genomically provern. This is still just using extremely complicated algorithms for a best guess result. This opinion is from someone who was in on the ground floor of quantitative genetics long before the processing power was freely available to do the maths quickly.

Mooooo

Dawggone wrote: »

Anyone use young, unproven but genomic tested Bulls?

I used a few a couple of years ago. They are now calving down. One of them would lie down in the parlor rather than be milked...I'd never seen that before so persisted for a week. Happy meal.
Another calved Thur and is at the same craic. Happy meal tomorrow morning. Same fecking sire!!
Both heifers out of good producing, docile cows.
An ounce of breeding...

How many bulls did you use dawg. In order to protect against the duds the advice is to use a panel of 5 minimum,

freedominacup

Mooooo wrote: »

How many bulls did you use dawg. In order to protect against the duds the advice is to use a panel of 5 minimum,

Which was the exact same advice they always gave when using test bulls. In fact they used to insist on it if you were participating in the testing programmes, partly to offset risks and partly to get the bulls with less impressive bloodlines tested.

Mooooo

freedominacup wrote: »

Mooooo wrote: »

How many bulls did you use dawg. In order to protect against the duds the advice is to use a panel of 5 minimum,

Which was the exact same advice they always gave when using test bulls. In fact they used to insist on it if you were participating in the testing programmes, partly to offset risks and partly to get the bulls with less impressive bloodlines tested.

Would you be off the opinion to leave them as test bull packs so? It does annoy me them charging 16 to 20 quid for genomic bulls when test bulls with near on the exact same reliability come in packs for 6.50.... th I've used a lot of genomic bulls and I have yet to come across and animal I could say is better by far than what went before her. But look there have been way too many variables here to judge the whole lot that way

freedominacup

Mooooo wrote: »

Would you be off the opinion to leave them as test bull packs so? It does annoy me them charging 16 to 20 quid for genomic bulls when test bulls with near on the exact same reliability come in packs for 6.50.... th I've used a lot of genomic bulls and I have yet to come across and animal I could say is better by far than what went before her. But look there have been way too many variables here to judge the whole lot that way

Personally I'd be of the opinion to leave them where they are but I won't use a bull without a linear (type) proof.

Keepgrowing

freedominacup wrote: »

Personally I'd be of the opinion to leave them where they are but I won't use a bull without a linear (type) proof.

I will not use a bull that's not daughter proven. Ebi should be a guide not a target.

I've often been ridiculed for my stance

jaymla627

freedominacup wrote: »

Personally I'd be of the opinion to leave them where they are but I won't use a bull without a linear (type) proof.

I have to laugh when u can buy the likes of dragon, spock,legend, acres eight for 8-10 euro but lads reckon spending 20 euro plus on genomic sires with the magical 350 plus ebi is a silver bullet, printing press for ai companies more like

freedominacup

jaymla627 wrote: »

I have to laugh when u can buy the likes of dragon, spock,legend, acres eight for 8-10 euro but lads reckon spending 20 euro plus on genomic sires with the magical 350 plus ebi is a silver bullet, printing press for ai companies more like

Spock? Still?

Keepgrowing

freedominacup wrote: »

Spock? Still?

Loads of water

jaymla627

freedominacup wrote: »

Spock? Still?

Yeah probably my favourite bull I have cows milking off, handy calved, perfect outcross for cows with oman breeding, lovely quiet cows too and the main thing lots of milk.....
Think I have the last batch of straws Eurogene had left in flask of him, have 8 smashing spock heifers for the bull next spring, their going to make lovely cows

alps

Mooooo wrote: »

How many bulls did you use dawg. In order to protect against the duds the advice is to use a panel of 5 minimum,

You can't protect against the duds......except to use proven...

The cost of duds is not properly factored into the equation. Suppose we use 5 test bull and we end up with 5daughters...1from each bull.

2 daughters end up 50€ /lact more profitable
is average
1 is slightly less than average
And 1 is a complete dud...

The sums on year 1 will go something like this
+50
+50
+0
-20
-1300

In the physical application of actual farming, you cannot offset the actual financial hit of a dud....not to mind having 5 or 6 of them...

Dawggone

freedominacup wrote: »

But they are "proven" dawg. Genomically provern. This is still just using extremely complicated algorithms for a best guess result. This opinion is from someone who was in on the ground floor of quantitative genetics long before the processing power was freely available to do the maths quickly.

I think that I'd prefer daughter proven rather an algo proof from now on.

I used 24 different Bulls...maybe I'll get lucky.

jaymla627

Dawggone wrote: »

I think that I'd prefer daughter proven rather an algo proof from now on.

I used 24 different Bulls...maybe I'll get lucky.

You any eldweiss daughters milking dawg, used a good bit of him on the less milky ladies this spring

blackdog1

jaymla627 wrote:

You any eldweiss daughters milking dawg, used a good bit of him on the less milky ladies this spring

I have yearlings of that bull very strong animals. The bull calves were the best looking calves I ever had from 100% holstein. Each of them made 150+ as 2 week old calves

MF290

freedominacup wrote: »

I worked a Keenan 100 on a 4600 ford years ago. They can be geared for smaller tractors when ordering new.

Heard of a 165 that was on one for years, reducer gear on it. 75hp ran our 100 with ease for 10 years, we'd 75hp on a 350 for a few months this winter .... Puts the tractor under a bit too much pressure though

kevthegaff

MF290 wrote:

Heard of a 165 that was on one for years, reducer gear on it. 75hp ran our 100 with ease for 10 years, we'd 75hp on a 350 for a few months this winter .... Puts the tractor under a bit too much pressure though

Unkle finished 1000 cattle a year with a universal and 100 keenan, we had a 100 serious work got through

whelan2

Timmaay wrote: »

Stan uses a fair few of them and gets on well enough I think? The only particular bad unproven bull I've used here the last few years is KSK, utterly crap milker and small cows so won't even make much as culls. And I got 9 more of them coming into the parlour next spring ugh.

ye very disappointed with ksk heifers, I used sexed Ksk too :cool: have some ABO and PBM heifers that are smashers though

Dawggone

jaymla627 wrote: »

You any eldweiss daughters milking dawg, used a good bit of him on the less milky ladies this spring

I've a few.
Milky and sizeable. Not overly sold on mobility.

awaywithyou

jaymla627 wrote: »

You any eldweiss daughters milking dawg, used a good bit of him on the less milky ladies this spring

Is that the correct name for that bull?? Searching for him on icbf with your spelling.... Not being recognised...

Never again using genomic Bulls here..... Except for pkx.... I think genomics is a waste of time and ebi isn't much better..... Hard to rely on ebi when icbf are constantly messing with it....

Dawggone

awaywithyou wrote: »

Is that the correct name for that bull?? Searching for him on icbf with your spelling.... Not being recognised...

Never again using genomic Bulls here..... Except for pkx.... I think genomics is a waste of time and ebi isn't much better..... Hard to rely on ebi when icbf are constantly messing with it....

Edelweiss.

Damn you to hell for taking the name of EBI in vain!

jaymla627

awaywithyou wrote: »

Is that the correct name for that bull?? Searching for him on icbf with your spelling.... Not being recognised...

Never again using genomic Bulls here..... Except for pkx.... I think genomics is a waste of time and ebi isn't much better..... Hard to rely on ebi when icbf are constantly messing with it....

S2195 is the code, wouldn't be using a bull like him across all your cows only use him here on the jersey crosses and smaller cows to put a bit more power into their heifers hopefully....
Progressive have a great selection of daughter proven bulls now their able to get abs bulls, the likes of laurhill classic, pello and pesky are top quality daughter proven bulls, all oman sons though if you want outcrosses eldweiss is a option, kodak red, delta gravity....
Very old school here in that if I come across a bull that I like and he's producing the goods I keep using him every year, don't see the point in chasing the next best thing when the bulls im using are producing the goods

mahoney_j

Dawggone wrote: »

Edelweiss.

Damn you to hell for taking the name of EBI in vain!

That bull all whitewater +500 kg milk ,negative for sokids ,negative for health ,negative for fertility .nothing would lead me to use him
And the ebi/genomics bashing continues .delievering in a huge way in this herd by end of this year full herd will be genotyped and see no reason to move away from it .

stanflt

Timmaay wrote: »

Stan uses a fair few of them and gets on well enough I think? The only particular bad unproven bull I've used here the last few years is KSK, utterly crap milker and small cows so won't even make much as culls. And I got 9 more of them coming into the parlour next spring ugh.

Was disappointed with ksk as heifers- but they are maturing well as second Calvers

stanflt

stanflt wrote: »

Was disappointed with ksk as heifers- but they are maturing well as second Calvers

She's 3 weeks away from calving at the moment but looks to have transformed

mahoney_j

jaymla627 wrote: »

S2195 is the code, wouldn't be using a bull like him across all your cows only use him here on the jersey crosses and smaller cows to put a bit more power into their heifers hopefully....
Progressive have a great selection of daughter proven bulls now their able to get abs bulls, the likes of laurhill classic, pello and pesky are top quality daughter proven bulls, all oman sons though if you want outcrosses eldweiss is a option, kodak red, delta gravity....
Very old school here in that if I come across a bull that I like and he's producing the goods I keep using him every year, don't see the point in chasing the next best thing when the bulls im using are producing the goods

Not chasing the next big thing ,am chasing more solids ,more production ,more fertilityandcsokuds cruically profit from fty in parlour and grazed grass .genotyping and genomic Bulls delievering exactly that

stanflt

awaywithyou wrote: »

Is that the correct name for that bull?? Searching for him on icbf with your spelling.... Not being recognised...

Never again using genomic Bulls here..... Except for pkx.... I think genomics is a waste of time and ebi isn't much better..... Hard to rely on ebi when icbf are constantly messing with it....

Pkx look great. But won't fill the tank