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Dairy Chit Chat- Please read Mod note in post #1

Timmaay

24/6/16

Recently we saw three posters close their accounts over disagreements in the dairy threads. While there is a lot of frustration and discontent with current milk prices and the processing industry, the recent tendency for dairy threads to become tit-for-tat arguments isn’t tolerable for those not involved.

All farming sectors go through difficult periods and during such times there may need to be changes in how threads are moderated.

Dairy threads are going to be more closely monitored and subject to stricter moderation for a while.

To that end we won’t tolerate baiting of posters, constantly reviving old arguments, posters with agendas or crusading for a cause.

Whether it’s discussion of the business or politics of the dairy or other sectors, we expect civility and tolerance toward each other and other opinions as diversity of opinion is needed as a source of different ways of looking at a situation.

"The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress." - Joseph Joubert

Also please be aware that what you may post as light-hearted banter can be read totally differently by someone adversely affected by the subject matter and evoke a reaction you hadn’t intended.

The ‘Off-Season’ forum, and its anonymous posting, is available for anyone to chat about their situation.

The Mod Team.

10 away from the 10000 posts! Frazz I think it's fair to say this thread has been a success!

Indeed it was! First thread can be found here- http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056872221

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pedigree 6

The Great Escape is on rte1 now.

Keepgrowing

Dawggone wrote: »

Firstly, I totally agree about the ability of dairy farmers to moan, and yes the French dairy farmers would have to be world champions at it.

Secondly, I just can't agree on the line about there being only 4 million people to consume the Irish dairy product.
Local can become global quite easily, especially when you have the provenance that the Irish family farm has. Think Irish whiskey...started local, now global.
I don't think that the consumer is demanding more milk powder, or maybe I'm wrong?

The consumer is now turning into the prosumer...the prosumer will want to watch live feed of the cows in the sheds/fields/ milking parlor at any time they want. The dairy industry that latches onto the eco/soil/animal friendly brand will steal a march on the competition.

I know that ye think I'm crazy, but I'll bet that the industry that opens its doors via live feed 24/7, will open the purse of the end user.
This idea is already being floated by processors here. My crowd make baby formula for the Chinese market and they are actively looking for farmers to participate...

Mahoney's right. Fighting over scraps every time of a little crisis is not a good plan going forward.

Big market out there. Aim for the top end consumer....or just moan.

I was thinking good point till you came to whiskey, grain guys doing fair well out of that.

Take hi end elements and market it, dry and bag what's left and get off the island ASAP. With seasonal production that's the reality.

yosemitesam1

Keepgrowing wrote: »

Take hi end elements and market it, dry and bag what's left and get off the island ASAP. With seasonal production that's the reality.

What high end products have we?

Saw iberian ham for sale today in the supermarket 85/kg...

kowtow

Buford T. Justice V wrote:

Apparently, we have to wait for the area manager to fill out the form with us.

I think I'm beginning to understand the election results in Kerry.

kowtow

yosemitesam1 wrote:

Saw iberian ham for sale today in the supermarket 85/kg...

Jamberico mmmmmmm

Injuryprone

freedominacup wrote: »

Well he's a fair genius mj. The literature is ambiguous at best. You have to apply twice. Once to join the scheme and a second time for payment. Yourself and injuryprone would really want to get down off yerselves. Neither of you have provided a link to anything that confirms your posts.

Every detail I've posted is in the following dafm document. I had thought everyone would've got a copy of it in the post

https://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/migration/farmingsectors/dairy/voluntarysupplymanagementschemeforthedairysector/VOLUNTARY%20SUPPLY%20MANAGEMENT%20SCHEME%20FAQ.pdf

Buford T. Justice XIX

kowtow wrote: »

I think I'm beginning to understand the election results in Kerry.

That puts you in a group of one because I doubt anyone else can understand it:(

freedominacup

Dawggone wrote: »

Firstly, I totally agree about the ability of dairy farmers to moan, and yes the French dairy farmers would have to be world champions at it.

Secondly, I just can't agree on the line about there being only 4 million people to consume the Irish dairy product.
Local can become global quite easily, especially when you have the provenance that the Irish family farm has. Think Irish whiskey...started local, now global.
I don't think that the consumer is demanding more milk powder, or maybe I'm wrong?

The consumer is now turning into the prosumer...the prosumer will want to watch live feed of the cows in the sheds/fields/ milking parlor at any time they want. The dairy industry that latches onto the eco/soil/animal friendly brand will steal a march on the competition.

I know that ye think I'm crazy, but I'll bet that the industry that opens its doors via live feed 24/7, will open the purse of the end user.
This idea is already being floated by processors here. My crowd make baby formula for the Chinese market and they are actively looking for farmers to participate...

Mahoney's right. Fighting over scraps every time of a little crisis is not a good plan going forward.

Big market out there. Aim for the top end consumer....or just moan.

The only negative thread I've seen on kerrygold was centred on the fact that our cows are getting in fw terms a tiny fraction of their diet from gm sources. If we were looking at a usp for our farm produce it should be that we move to gm free. I used to think it was too difficult logistically but now I think it would be worth it. We would take a performance hit but not that huge a one. We should be emphasizing using native grains with as much synergy as possible between livestock and tillage sectors. A real all island approach.

Dawggone

Keepgrowing wrote: »

whiskey, grain guys doing fair well out of that.

Take hi end elements and market it, dry and bag what's left and get off the island ASAP. With seasonal production that's the reality.

You've been misinformed on the malt growers margins...grossly. Milk at present prices is a much better earner.

Seasonal production was a major bugbear of the milk industry before the Kiwi magic formula of milk powder manufacturing. The Kiwis now openly admit to the mistake of following that line...

Dawggone

kowtow wrote: »

Jamberico mmmmmmm

Pata Negra!
Absolutely fantastic.

Keepgrowing

Dawggone wrote: »

You've been misinformed on the malt growers margins...grossly. Milk at present prices is a much better earner.

Seasonal production was a major bugbear of the milk industry before the Kiwi magic formula of milk powder manufacturing. The Kiwis now openly admit to the mistake of following that line...

I can only assume you're deliberately missing the point???

You post of whiskey being the great international market success, I mention how well (NOT) grain farmers are doing and you then repeat what we already know. Try to keep a line of thought.

You still haven't addressed Shyte caked?? Actually it's ok, don't bother

Mooooo

Dawggone wrote: »

Keepgrowing wrote: »

whiskey, grain guys doing fair well out of that.

Take hi end elements and market it, dry and bag what's left and get off the island ASAP. With seasonal production that's the reality.

You've been misinformed on the malt growers margins...grossly. Milk at present prices is a much better earner.

Seasonal production was a major bugbear of the milk industry before the Kiwi magic formula of milk powder manufacturing. The Kiwis now openly admit to the mistake of following that line...

I'd say that's what he meant that the grain man isn't getting the return from the whiskey industry. Yes we Should look at higher value products But this will push us towards a higher cost base also as these will also be exported it's not going to increase our resistance to the price drop globally. . We need to market the image we have better and perhaps as free says go gm free on inputs but it's not as straight forward for the exporter as for those with the large domestic consumer

[Deleted User]

Keepgrowing wrote: »

You post of whiskey being the great international market success, I mention how well (NOT) grain farmers are doing and you then repeat what we already know.

World stock are record highs for feed grains, you need to highest quality as thats what everyone else is aiming for unless its RR Corn. Quality is hard in ireland, though if you can get beans to yield with less pests about in ireland Beans for h/c puts everything in a hapenny place net margin wise.

Dawggone

Keepgrowing wrote: »

I can only assume you're deliberately missing the point???

You post of whiskey being the great international market success, I mention how well (NOT) grain farmers are doing and you then repeat what we already know. Try to keep a line of thought.

You still haven't addressed Shyte caked?? Actually it's ok, don't bother

Ok.
If...and I say if, the future marketing of high end dairy products is going to involve live streaming of milking etc...it's not going to look good to see shyte caked cows being milked. I've commented on this every single time there has been footage of cows being milked. ETTG and the UTV farming programme (whose name escapes me) are both guilty of this, including RTÉ
news.
If you're pitching a high end product to a rich first world consumer (prosumer), things like cleanliness, animal husbandry etc are important.
But then they mightn't care in Nigeria...

mahoney_j

Injuryprone wrote: »

Every detail I've posted is in the following dafm document. I had thought everyone would've got a copy of it in the post

https://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/migration/farmingsectors/dairy/voluntarysupplymanagementschemeforthedairysector/VOLUNTARY%20SUPPLY%20MANAGEMENT%20SCHEME%20FAQ.pdf

I'm away for weekend ,not disputing your link but my source who I won't reveal here has a significant post further up the line ,he may be talking ****e but that's my take

Dawggone

freedominacup wrote: »

The only negative thread I've seen on kerrygold was centred on the fact that our cows are getting in fw terms a tiny fraction of their diet from gm sources. If we were looking at a usp for our farm produce it should be that we move to gm free. I used to think it was too difficult logistically but now I think it would be worth it. We would take a performance hit but not that huge a one. We should be emphasizing using native grains with as much synergy as possible between livestock and tillage sectors. A real all island approach.

+1.
Bang on.
I would add that there are also other issues that need to be addressed. The overuse of chemical fert, carbon sequestration, biodiversity etc etc.

The majority of the Irish green image is already in the head of the rich consumer...should be easy enough to take it into the 21st century.

Mooooo

Dawggone wrote: »

freedominacup wrote: »

The only negative thread I've seen on kerrygold was centred on the fact that our cows are getting in fw terms a tiny fraction of their diet from gm sources. If we were looking at a usp for our farm produce it should be that we move to gm free. I used to think it was too difficult logistically but now I think it would be worth it. We would take a performance hit but not that huge a one. We should be emphasizing using native grains with as much synergy as possible between livestock and tillage sectors. A real all island approach.

+1.
Bang on.
I would add that there are also other issues that need to be addressed. The overuse of chemical fert, carbon sequestration, biodiversity etc etc.

The majority of the Irish green image is already in the head of the rich consumer...should be easy enough to take it into the 21st century.

Chemical fertiliser overuse would imply water quality issues, AFAIK I don't think that is a major issue here.

Dawggone

Mooooo wrote: »

Chemical fertiliser overuse would imply water quality issues, AFAIK I don't think that is a major issue here.

I never implied that there's water quality issues.
Think Iberico ham...

Edit.
The industry needs to produce to the demands of the consumer. It's not enough to say that you produce to the regulations from Brussels.

freedominacup

Dawggone wrote: »

+1.
Bang on.
I would add that there are also other issues that need to be addressed. The overuse of chemical fert, carbon sequestration, biodiversity etc etc.

The majority of the Irish green image is already in the head of the rich consumer...should be easy enough to take it into the 21st century.

The chemical fert usage overall here is tiny dawg. Across the industry we'd easily be under French limits. Definitely not individually but our national usage is a lot lower than you think. 50-60 units would be the outside of it.

Dawggone

freedominacup wrote: »

The chemical fert usage overall here is tiny dawg. Across the industry we'd easily be under French limits. Definitely not individually but our national usage is a lot lower than you think. 50-60 units would be the outside of it.

Iberico ham (sorry!)has on farm inspections regularly...a full inventory of fert/pesticide/medicine usage etc.

Lamping underused mountainy land into your fert usage land base isn't going to fool an educated consumer.

See I'm not saying that Ireland should/must go down this road...I'm just suggesting another route. I'm probably one of the oldest posters here, the younger posters should be much more ambitious and forward seeing, not towing the Ag industry line...there must be another Dr. Tony O Reilly out there. I wouldn't be depending on the Gov. Teagasc or the processors for guidance.

freedominacup

Dawggone wrote: »

Iberico ham (sorry!)has on farm inspections regularly...a full inventory of fert/pesticide/medicine usage etc.

Lamping underused mountainy land into your fert usage land base isn't going to fool an educated consumer.

See I'm not saying that Ireland should/must go down this road...I'm just suggesting another route. I'm probably one of the oldest posters here, the younger posters should be much more ambitious and forward seeing, not towing the Ag industry line...there must be another Dr. Tony O Reilly out there. I wouldn't be depending on the Gov. Teagasc or the processors for guidance.

I didn't. There's more than enough underused lowland. The full inventory stuff wouldn't be any stretch here at this stage. Getting the correct results could be another thing.

Dawggone

freedominacup wrote: »

I didn't. There's more than enough underused lowland. The full inventory stuff wouldn't be any stretch here at this stage. Getting the correct results could be another thing.

Lol.
Very easy to mix up fert and feed...:)

Mooooo

Grazing the furthest away fields on farm they cross the road on to farm roadway and cross another road to it. Turning em in theres always 2 wagons that decide to stop halfway on the roadway the dickheads. Slow them down coming in no end as they are bad enough to leave the field

kevthegaff

freedominacup wrote:

The chemical fert usage overall here is tiny dawg. Across the industry we'd easily be under French limits. Definitely not individually but our national usage is a lot lower than you think. 50-60 units would be the outside of it.

I thought we were one of highest in EU maybe I'm wrong

Buford T. Justice XIX

Waffletraktor wrote: »

World stock are record highs for feed grains, you need to highest quality as thats what everyone else is aiming for unless its RR Corn. Quality is hard in ireland, though if you can get beans to yield with less pests about in ireland Beans for h/c puts everything in a hapenny place net margin wise.

There is a bit of movement on an all Irish coarse ration containing barley and beans which should be widely available this winter for something like 180 /t, iirc.

kevthegaff wrote: »

I thought we were one of highest in EU maybe I'm wrong

Jaysus, no. The whole country is in a Nitrates Vulnerable Zone, meaning we have strict limits on chemical fertiliser quantities compared to other countries which only have relatively small areas in NVZ. Outside NVZs, you can basically spread as much as you want.

Keepgrowing

Shyte caked cows

alps

Mooooo wrote: »

Chemical fertiliser overuse would imply water quality issues, AFAIK I don't think that is a major issue here.

Chemical overuse may not be showing up in water quality but may be be causing issues with clinical and sub clinical issues with cow health....I feel some herds are poisoned with overuse of fertiliser, particularly in spring as herds follow advisory applications..

RightTurnClyde

Keepgrowing wrote: »

Shyte caked cows

Tail docking.... Tut tut

Keepgrowing

RightTurnClyde wrote: »

Tail docking.... Tut tut

2 cows pic'd have docked tails, both have had 7 calves so was legal at that time. No tails docked here since ban

zetorman

Anyone thinking of going for this offer. ? Am I reading it right ? 14c per litre (or is it Kg) but you can only reduce by 50% of what you supplied during Oct Nov & Dec last year. Did any of ye read the small print ?
Mod noteMoved from separate thread already a topic here