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Dairy Chit Chat- Please read Mod note in post #1

Timmaay

24/6/16

Recently we saw three posters close their accounts over disagreements in the dairy threads. While there is a lot of frustration and discontent with current milk prices and the processing industry, the recent tendency for dairy threads to become tit-for-tat arguments isn’t tolerable for those not involved.

All farming sectors go through difficult periods and during such times there may need to be changes in how threads are moderated.

Dairy threads are going to be more closely monitored and subject to stricter moderation for a while.

To that end we won’t tolerate baiting of posters, constantly reviving old arguments, posters with agendas or crusading for a cause.

Whether it’s discussion of the business or politics of the dairy or other sectors, we expect civility and tolerance toward each other and other opinions as diversity of opinion is needed as a source of different ways of looking at a situation.

"The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress." - Joseph Joubert

Also please be aware that what you may post as light-hearted banter can be read totally differently by someone adversely affected by the subject matter and evoke a reaction you hadn’t intended.

The ‘Off-Season’ forum, and its anonymous posting, is available for anyone to chat about their situation.

The Mod Team.

10 away from the 10000 posts! Frazz I think it's fair to say this thread has been a success!

Indeed it was! First thread can be found here- http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056872221

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cute geoge

fepper wrote: »

I learned a hard few lessons on promises,promises,words mean nothing in the fresh air but on paper and witnessed its very hard to row back on it there in black and white

Did stan stand up at the meeting and say he would pay leading milk price
If he did it ishould be on record in the minutes of the meeting

fepper

kowtow wrote: »

Many of us have to, to pay for the b****dy farm !

It seems like a block around your neck the way you put it there!!

fepper

cute geoge wrote: »

Did stan stand up at the meeting and say he would pay leading milk price
If he did it ishould be on record in the minutes of the meeting

Maybe but a official agreement signed by plc and milk suppliers representatives would be more
Transparent

Water John

Minutes of a meeting usually record the decisions made. This may not have been recorded in that manner. In future any 'promises' by a processor should come in a legally enforceable format. Otherwise, literally, it is not worth the paper it is written on.
I think that is one lesson that farmers have learned.

visatorro

Is glanbia milk statement not due today?

kowtow

fepper wrote:

It seems like a block around your neck the way you put it there!!

Ah no, I was joking.

No place in the world I'd rather be and nothing I'd rather be doing.

kerry cow

What options are open to kerry farmers if kerry plc takes a stand and a top up is not paid . Where does that leave the future of the suppliers and the lovely long contract that our clowns of a co op board recommended us to sign .tying us for years ??

whelan2

visatorro wrote: »

Is glanbia milk statement not due today?

yup, supposed to be online on 16th .......has been a few months since it was up on time, still not there now:mad: edited to say money is in my account today a day early

BannerBarry

kerry cow wrote: »

What options are open to kerry farmers if kerry plc takes a stand and a top up is not paid . Where does that leave the future of the suppliers and the lovely long contract that our clowns of a co op board recommended us to sign .tying us for years ??

Why take legal action against Kerry Group PLC and not the solicitor that reviewed the agreement on your behalf back in 2011?
They were the well paid solicitors that missed defining "the leading milk price".

If I'm contracted to supply "the leading lamb of my flock" you know you are getting my leading mountain weather lamb and not my pedigree Texel ram lamb.
Ethics will mean nothing in court unfortunately.

Yee have a better chance of winning the Lotto than beating Kerry Group PLC on this one.
Ask the Competition authority, the Irish Dairy board, the Revenue on trying to beat Kerry Group in court.

Talk to the solicitor that reviewed the milk contracts on the suppliers behalf and the Kerry co-op Board representatives. They missed this critical definition. This was negligence potentially.

kerry cow

Not taking from the killarney firm that is representing kerry Co op at the moment but the problem again is the plc have might behind them and the Co op need to fight fire with fire ,it's like a heavyweight v light weight boxing match , what a match !!

fepper

Suppose the plc would be MUHUMMAD ALI against the coops BARRY MCGUIGAN

kowtow

BannerBarry wrote: »

Why take legal action against Kerry Group PLC and not the solicitor that reviewed the agreement on your behalf back in 2011?
They were the well paid solicitors that missed defining "the leading milk price".

You can lead downwards instead of upwards I suppose.

When suing solicitors be very careful to establish to whom they owed a duty when they acted - it's not always obvious. Many have been caught out and genuinely harmed as a consequence of easily proven negligence by solicitors but subsequently found that the solicitor in question did not directly owe them (the victim) a duty of care and therefore cannot be held liable to them.

fepper

kowtow wrote: »

You can lead downwards instead of upwards I suppose.

When suing solicitors be very careful to establish to whom they owed a duty when they acted - it's not always obvious. Many have been caught out and genuinely harmed as a consequence of easily proven negligence by solicitors but subsequently found that the solicitor in question did not directly owe them (the victim) a duty of care and therefore cannot be held liable to them.

Does your accountant owe you a duty of care if they make a big cockup on your behalf??

mf240

If you tried suing a firm of solicitors.

You'd be lucky to have the price of the bus home when there finished with ya.

6270red

"Yee have a better chance of winning the Lotto than beating Kerry Group PLC on this one.
Ask the Competition authority, the Irish Dairy board, the Revenue on trying to beat Kerry Group in court."

Well we will get nothing if we don't try so we may as well get nothing trying.
Can't understand people's attitude that we should just let them walk all over us! Beaten before you start the match. That's what's got us into this ****e position in the first place!!

OverRide

whelan2 wrote: »

yup, supposed to be online on 16th .......has been a few months since it was up on time, still not there now:mad: edited to say money is in my account today a day early

See that
Any sign of the bps ballancing payment
It's later than last year now despite a promise to make it earlier

fepper

The price of milk is on the floor anyway ,you were getting a better price in 15 than now in 16 and that's happening all over Ireland not just Kerry

rangler1

6270red wrote: »

"Yee have a better chance of winning the Lotto than beating Kerry Group PLC on this one.
Ask the Competition authority, the Irish Dairy board, the Revenue on trying to beat Kerry Group in court."

Well we will get nothing if we don't try so we may as well get nothing trying.
Can't understand people's attitude that we should just let them walk all over us! Beaten before you start the match. That's what's got us into this ****e position in the first place!!

Court case would take years and how do you think Kerry would treat you while it was going on.
''Law with no justice'' is all you'd get in court

whelan2

OverRide wrote: »

See that
Any sign of the bps ballancing payment
It's later than last year now despite a promise to make it earlier

No sign read somewhere we are to get it before the end of June. Will believe it when I see it

fepper

rangler1 wrote: »

Court case would take years and how do you think Kerry would treat you while it was going on.<br />
''Law with no justice'' is all you'd get in court

<br />
Kerry plc don't do too many rewards for its milk suppliers

Buford T. Justice XIX

rangler1 wrote: »

Court case would take years and how do you think Kerry would treat you while it was going on.
''Law with no justice'' is all you'd get in court

It's not a court case, though, ranger. It's legally binding arbitration so no comeback if it's lost by either side.

BannerBarry

It's a good job it's Kerry Group that's pushing the Arbitration forward and that we are not waiting for the Co Op to push it forward.
The co op have spend over 2 years charging us for their Strategic Review.... I do not know a single member that was asked for their feedback on what the members want from the future of Kerry co op.
Kerry Group are anxious to get the Arbitration over so they can get the €10m out of their bank account... I think not guys.

freedominacup

kowtow wrote: »

BannerBarry wrote: »

Why take legal action against Kerry Group PLC and not the solicitor that reviewed the agreement on your behalf back in 2011?
They were the well paid solicitors that missed defining "the leading milk price".

You can lead downwards instead of upwards I suppose.

When suing solicitors be very careful to establish to whom they owed a duty when they acted - it's not always obvious. Many have been caught out and genuinely harmed as a consequence of easily proven negligence by solicitors but subsequently found that the solicitor in question did not directly owe them (the victim) a duty of care and therefore cannot be held liable to them.

And in this country, in practice the burden of proof when suing a professional is higher than the burden of proof in a murder trial.

6270red

rangler1 wrote: »

Court case would take years and how do you think Kerry would treat you while it was going on.
''Law with no justice'' is all you'd get in court

Can't treat us any worse.

6270red

Jesus lads going by people on here I now know why the companies we supply milk to walk all over us.
All scared ****less of them. They'll do this and that.
I for one am happy we are putting up a fight, someone has to. Too many yes men, well I say no! Give us what was promised or even negotiate to give us something.
When all these guys working in the industry drive past a field of cows they should say to themselves, Jesus them ladies pay my wages we should look after them. But they don't even think about that. Huge disconnect there at the moment.

fepper

freedominacup wrote: »

And in this country, in practice the burden of proof when suing a professional is higher than the burden of proof in a murder trial.

The legal profession are hardly going to shoot each other in the foot are they, closed shop there

rangler1

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

It's not a court case, though, ranger. It's legally binding arbitration so no comeback if it's lost by either side.

Didn't know that, even that'll take time,
Arbitration can be a real battle of the barristers, 'twill need some talent to win

fepper

6270red wrote: »

Jesus lads going by people on here I now know why the companies we supply milk to walk all over us.
All scared ****less of them. They'll do this and that.
I for one am happy we are putting up a fight, someone has to. Too many yes men, well I say no! Give us what was promised or even negotiate to give us something.
When all these guys working in the industry drive past a field of cows they should say to themselves, Jesus them ladies pay my wages we should look after them. But they don't even think about that. Huge disconnect there at the moment.

Lots of farmers retired after years of supply of milk to coop ,did they get lump sum and pension as a thank you from coop as you say wrong side of processing table we were

6270red

fepper wrote: »

Lots of farmers retired after years of supply of milk to coop ,did they get lump sum and pension as a thank you from coop as you say wrong side of processing table we were

No am I asking for a pension? Most retired lads including my father have shares. I don't and to be honest I think your arguments here are an insult. Your no longer involved in the industry so maybe you should leave the fight to the people still involved and the young farmers like myself to fight the good fight.
How many more times can I say I'm not looking for something for nothing I'm only looking for a fair return for my work.

kevthegaff

fepper wrote:

Lots of farmers retired after years of supply of milk to coop ,did they get lump sum and pension as a thank you from coop as you say wrong side of processing table we were

I Think we should go the slurry route, the suits wouldn't like that! Also p,"ss off the department