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Dairy Chit Chat- Please read Mod note in post #1

Timmaay

24/6/16

Recently we saw three posters close their accounts over disagreements in the dairy threads. While there is a lot of frustration and discontent with current milk prices and the processing industry, the recent tendency for dairy threads to become tit-for-tat arguments isn’t tolerable for those not involved.

All farming sectors go through difficult periods and during such times there may need to be changes in how threads are moderated.

Dairy threads are going to be more closely monitored and subject to stricter moderation for a while.

To that end we won’t tolerate baiting of posters, constantly reviving old arguments, posters with agendas or crusading for a cause.

Whether it’s discussion of the business or politics of the dairy or other sectors, we expect civility and tolerance toward each other and other opinions as diversity of opinion is needed as a source of different ways of looking at a situation.

"The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress." - Joseph Joubert

Also please be aware that what you may post as light-hearted banter can be read totally differently by someone adversely affected by the subject matter and evoke a reaction you hadn’t intended.

The ‘Off-Season’ forum, and its anonymous posting, is available for anyone to chat about their situation.

The Mod Team.

10 away from the 10000 posts! Frazz I think it's fair to say this thread has been a success!

Indeed it was! First thread can be found here- http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056872221

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Comments

fepper

If I was a milk supplier to Kerry plc I would not sign it ,it could turn out to be a dear 13th payment if Kerry drop milk price again for june also

Water John

Not over familiar with the Kerry 13th payment case. All I say is, at least some farmers are showing a bit of balls and not letting themselves be walked on.

I think all farmers must become very focussed on loose language that may have no real legal meaning. Here I'm talking of Glanbia and Kerry promising to pay a leading milk price. in the case of Glanbia and Dairygold, it is 'leading' at the wrong end of the table.

fepper

The directors of Kerry coop should have made sure that agreement was watertight and now that it is not and the horse has bolted they're threatening court actions now,stable door has closed since,these directors are paid to do things right first time round

Timmaay

I must of either been directly offered or heard about an easy 50acres of silage for sale locally as standing crops, both 1st and 2nd cuts, and as many acres maize as I'd want. If the price of milk was better I'd happily be at 140 cows and have make no silage off the home block, but given the yr in it I certainly don't need hardship like that.

awaywithyou

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Just a quick reminder for any Kerry suppliers who wish to contest the lack of a 13th payment this year, the closing date for receipt of forms authorising the solicitors to contest the case on your behalf is next Monday, 20th of June.

Contact the solicitors Terence F. Casey & company in Killarney for forms or your local director should have them also.

I have a spare form here also if someone needs one, PM me and I can pass it on to you.

whats your opinion on it???

have to say i dont think its the smartest move by suppliers........

oxjkqg

Probably not the best move going fighting and argueing with them but they commited to paying the leading irish milk price, and they broke that committment....so we have to put up some sort of a battle!

fepper

They might be paying leading milk price on a stand alone basis but top ups to support milk price by other coops they don't have to match them

oxjkqg

i would argue with that, KPMG report is the audit of prices i would base it off and they are not paying the leading price off that.. before my time but i would blame the individuals involved in the negotiations back then for not setting it in stone as to what the leading price would be benchmarked off, e.g that kpmg report

fepper

Your right,the negotiations were flimsy to say the least,and I'm sure the plc exploited this

fepper

And a court case to determine a leading milk price with so many factors to take into account would be ripped to pieces by the plc team

6270red

fepper wrote: »

And a court case to determine a leading milk price with so many factors to take into account would be ripped to pieces by the plc team

Kerry supplier here. I'm young farmer and do not own one Kerry co-op share and couldn't afford to buy one. I'm struggling to pay bills. Young family etc. I'm dependant on milk price, it's all I got. So **** Kerry co-op we should fight them all the way it's our livelihood were talking about here. Do you think the big wigs in Kerry gave themselves a pay cut?
I won't be staying long milking cows if I have to put up with this. Guys putting cheese in a box in Listowel and charleville make more then me milking cows. Something is badly wrong there.

fepper

Its Kerry plc who's paying you for your milk not Kerry coop, two different companies now

fepper

And your right,its legalized slavery

6270red

fepper wrote: »

And your right,its legalized slavery

I'm not trying to argue, all I'm saying is they make a commitment to pay us a good price, I'm not too bothered if it's the leading price but it's gone past a joke now. We have to make a stand somehow and if it's going to be done with solicitors then that's what has to be done.
Sick of being walked on. Without us farmers it's all over they need to be reminded of that.

6270red

Cows pay for everything, all the plant all the workers all the executives everything.... Except the farmers themselves.
If we all had a bit of co on we would back each other to the hilt. But us Irish and I'm including myself in this are out for ourselves and can't see the big picture.
We are our own worst enemy. So let's make things uncomfortable for the Plc for awhile. Win or lose we will still be in the same position.

fepper

Appreciate your position,but you have a perishable product and therefore a price taker in good and bad times

6270red

fepper wrote: »

Appreciate your position,but you have a perishable product and therefore a price taker in good and bad times

Third lowest prices in Europe here, I understand the product is perishable but the price payers are taking the piss. Are you milking cows? If your not dependant on the milk cheque you might not be as angry. I'm not expecting to be a millionaire but i do expect a living, only paying bills is not a living. We should fight for our living. My father and grandfather milked the cows that built Kerry agri, do you think they are happy that the next generation could be the last to milk cows. 100 years of work pissed away. People won't work for one good year in three forever when they can have a stable income away form the farm.

fepper

Was milking but circumstances changed and got out,but their was always price volatility even in quota years and before and costs are astronomical now,accountants,tax machinery repairs,land upkeep fertilizer contractors, its never ending

darragh_haven

fepper wrote: »

And your right,its legalized slavery

It might feel like it, but to the none farmer its called running a business. Each farmer/farmer is a SME business and the farmer is the businessman.

Businesses fail all the time. Most people move on when this happens..... its a bit more difficult for farming tho.

6270red

darragh_haven wrote: »

It might feel like it, but to the none farmer its called running a business. Each farmer/farmer is a SME business and the farmer is the businessman.

Businesses fail all the time. Most people move on when this happens..... its a bit more difficult for farming tho.

Your right but most business men don't work for free. It's Much harder to wind up a farm ten it is to wind up a business.

fepper

Of course its business,you'd hardly be milking cows for exercise but in the context I was meaning was on that milk price and your ever increasing fixed costs you were a slave for supplying your coop at that price and maybe even lower in the future

6270red

fepper wrote: »

Of course its business,you'd hardly be milking cows for exercise but in the context I was meaning was on that milk price and your ever increasing fixed costs you were a slave for supplying your coop at that price and maybe even lower in the future

But then your arguing the same point as myself but you think it's a bad idea to fight for what was put in our msa.
Pre quota my father often sold shares to pay for university for the family or the like.
I don't have that option, milk price is the only thing I have, that's worth fighting for. We are fighting for our business. Your saying its a business like no other, wouldn't any business man fight for a better price. To dismiss our fight as foolish would be like saying to a shopkeeper to just shut the door. Why would I give up that easily, why should I? Everyone else involved in the industry gets a good return why shouldn't the farmer.

whelan2

6270red wrote: »

Everyone else involved in the industry gets a good return why shouldn't the farmer.

+1000

fepper

darragh_haven wrote: »

It might feel like it, but to the none farmer its called running a business. Each farmer/farmer is a SME business and the farmer is the businessman.

Businesses fail all the time. Most people move on when this happens..... its a bit more difficult for farming tho.

I think a lot of none farmers as you say here also run businesses,that's a funny statement

darragh_haven

fepper wrote: »

I think a lot of none farmers as you say here also run businesses,that's a funny statement

I dont know why you think its a funny statement.
Im not daying that farming is the only business.... im saying if it was treated like any outher business, you'd wind it up and find something more profitable. (Unless you can influence the price you get for your product or service)

fepper

If you want to sign up that's ur choice but the plc are only interested on paying you bare minimum market price and to protect their side of their profits at all costs, dairy farmers should be getting well over 30 Cent a litre but the plc are following open markets prices for their raw materials ,is your milk more valuable than than other milk,don't think so

fepper

darragh_haven wrote: »

I dont know why you think its a funny statement. <br />
Im not daying that farming is the only business.... im saying if it was treated like any outher business, you'd wind it up and find something more profitable. (Unless you can influence the price you get for your product or service)

<br />
Isn't that the problem here, the coop/plc you supply milk to control what your payment will be every month instead of you billing them for your goods

Buford T. Justice XIX

awaywithyou wrote: »

whats your opinion on it???

have to say i dont think its the smartest move by suppliers........

oxjkqq has it in a nutshell!

oxjkqg wrote: »

Probably not the best move going fighting and argueing with them but they commited to paying the leading irish milk price, and they broke that committment....so we have to put up some sort of a battle!

Stan stood in front of a couple of thousand shareholders, his employers at the time and was asked twice if Kerry suppliers would be paid more for their milk if the supply was sent elsewhere.

His reply, twice, was no!

No equivocation, no like-for-like-basis, straight-up-leading-milk-price, no ifs, but or ands.

I reckon that statement he made was the reason he was unwilling to be brought before the arbitrator.

He simply wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

At the end of the day, all any of us has is our reputation, the ability of people to trust what you say is the truth.

I would have no time for someone standing up in front of witnesses and basically lying to their face and, to my mind, that is exactly what Stan has done.

I stand over that statement, regardless of the consequences for me in saying that.

If he told me my own name at this stage, I would have to get independent confirmation of the truth of that statement.

6270red wrote: »

Kerry supplier here. I'm young farmer and do not own one Kerry co-op share and couldn't afford to buy one. I'm struggling to pay bills. Young family etc. I'm dependant on milk price, it's all I got. So **** Kerry co-op we should fight them all the way it's our livelihood were talking about here. Do you think the big wigs in Kerry gave themselves a pay cut?
I won't be staying long milking cows if I have to put up with this. Guys putting cheese in a box in Listowel and charleville make more then me milking cows. Something is badly wrong there.

+1

The system is broken and there is no will to fix it. We are basically yolked to a machine that will suck the very existence out of us with no regard to the consequences for us as long as the rest of the supply chain is able to make a excessively comfortable living off our sweat.

fepper

I learned a hard few lessons on promises,promises,words mean nothing in the fresh air but on paper and witnessed its very hard to row back on it there in black and white

kowtow

fepper wrote: »

I think a lot of none farmers as you say here also run businesses,that's a funny statement

Many of us have to, to pay for the b****dy farm !