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14-12-2005, 18:32   #46
BigCon
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Ok, so it wasn't today, it was last April in the States.
An early 80's Corvette pulled up beside me and I video'ed it with my phone.
You can hear the deep rumble of the engine as it takes off (and me trying to catch up with it)

10MB


.
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15-12-2005, 10:18   #47
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There's a 68 Dodge Charger in Donnybrook/Ballbridge area.
It's black, (or very dark green).

Was cycling by it and had to go back to pick my jaw off the ground.
Never thought to take a picture.

And speaking of chargers, I think that general lee pictured earlier was part of the Dukes Of Hazzard Promotion if I'm not mistaken.

Edited due to lysdexia
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15-12-2005, 13:09   #48
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Yesterday evening, on the way home, a green Triumph 2600 estate and a late 70s/early 80s with what appeared to be hydraulic suspension - was this the same system as Citroëns? Both were lovely. Pics this evening.
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15-12-2005, 13:41   #49
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[quote]There's a 68 Dodge Charger in Donnybrook/Ballbridge area.
It's black, (or very dark green).[quote]

...........believe it or not there is at least 3 of them in Dublin, a black R/T, a very dark green 440 and another which I've heard about but not seen !
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15-12-2005, 14:35   #50
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...........believe it or not there is at least 3 of them in Dublin, a black R/T, a very dark green 440 and another which I've heard about but not seen !
Well i know of 4
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15-12-2005, 23:01   #51
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Originally Posted by ds20prefecture
Yesterday evening, on the way home, a green Triumph 2600 estate and a late 70s/early 80s with what appeared to be hydraulic suspension - was this the same system as Citroëns? Both were lovely. Pics this evening.
Sorry - I meant a 70s/80s Mercedes with what appeared to be hydraulic suspension. Sorry about the quality of the pics - the car had an Irish reg. The pics of the Triumph didn't come out at all. Crappy camera phone

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16-12-2005, 00:09   #52
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It looks like a 300SEL, some of them had air suspension. The 6.3 litre one was great fun, it looked very civilized but it was a rocket to go. It was definitely one of the ones I should kept. I think I have photos somewhere but it was pre-digital camera.
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16-12-2005, 00:25   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ds20prefecture
Sorry - I meant a 70s/80s Mercedes with what appeared to be hydraulic suspension. Sorry about the quality of the pics - the car had an Irish reg. The pics of the Triumph didn't come out at all. Crappy camera phone
Funny, because when I read your post about the Triumph with hydraulic suspension, I couldn't quite fathom what you were on about, but the Mercedes was the first car that sprung to my mind, and then you shot these hazy pics of a Merc Saloon.

Yes, the Mercedes 300SE(L) featured AIR suspension as opposed to Hydraulic suspension. They did share some components with the Citroen DS, I'm not mechanic enough to know exactly what, but most noticeably the actual unit under the dashboard with the levers to raise and lower the car is exactly identical to the one in a DS. The air suspension on the 300SE(L) was first introduced in the 300SE Fintail in 1961, and then followed through in the enormous 600 Limousine and the "stacked headlight" 300SE(L) in 1965. It was superbly comfortable, but the older the cars got, it became hopelessly unreliable because of the 'volatile' nature of AIR... it kept springing leaks and valves kept failing, so now you still see many of these 300SE(L)'s , down on their suspension, feeling sorry for themselves. Generally they should stay up for at least a week or two, but I have seen some go down already after 2 to 3 hours... Not a big deal, and perfectly fine to live with, but it does mean you will need to run the car for a minute or two, to get air back into the system, before you can set off...
After the troubles with AIR, Mercedes did cop on, and introduced Hydraulic suspension, just like the Citroen DS, in their new flagship, the 450SEL 6.9 (W116 Series) in 1975. This was a major improvement over the constantly failing air suspension, but it was also very expensive and they only had it on the 450SEL 6.9 and also replaced it in their still going 600 series.

So the reason why you thought the Merc had hydraulic suspension was probably because you saw one "down on its knees". Now DS's generally sink down, because they are supposed to, but the 300SE's shouldn't come down at all, so the ones that do, have a leaky system !
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16-12-2005, 08:38   #54
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Cool - thanks for the info. I know Rolls Royce licensed the hydropneumatic suspension from Citroën in the 60s and I had heard a rumour that Mercedes had too. This clears it up.
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16-12-2005, 08:48   #55
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Originally Posted by ds20prefecture
Cool - thanks for the info. I know Rolls Royce licensed the hydropneumatic suspension from Citroën in the 60s and I had heard a rumour that Mercedes had too. This clears it up.
by the way, is there a difference between 'hydraulic' en 'hydropneumatic'?


oh, and was the shot of the Merc 300 taken in Upr George's street in Dun Laoghaire by any chance? It looks like it from the surrounding buildings, and I can remember even from years back, that there was a 300SEL sitting there regularly, and mostly quite down on it's suspension.
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16-12-2005, 08:53   #56
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Good info guys !

The hyrdaulic suspension is purely a fluid based system whereaas the hydropneumatic system, as in a W116 used both air and fluid, obviously kept seperate !
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16-12-2005, 10:58   #57
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The hyrdaulic suspension is purely a fluid based system whereaas the hydropneumatic system, as in a W116 used both air and fluid, obviously kept seperate !
Now I'm confused. The hydropneumatic system is a Citroën patent.
Air suspension is just compressed air "bags" that complements traditional springing.
I cannot imagine what an hydraulic (fluid only) suspension would be like. Very hard, would be my guess, as the fluid is not compressible.

Was the Citroën hydropneumatic system used in Mercedes cars? The timing works, and I see lots of google pages of mercs with "hydropneumatic" suspension.
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16-12-2005, 11:07   #58
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I reckon the Citroen stuff may have been used under licence or something. I do know that there is no similarity between the air system and the hydropnuematic one, although in the Benz's the system used nitrogen gas !

Is that used in the Citroen cars ?

Maybe the word hydraulic is aterm that has been applied incorrectly because as you state the fluid cannot be compressed !

Dont know enough about either systems to state facts !
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16-12-2005, 11:50   #59
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Yep Nitrogen is used in the spheres on a Citroën.

@PaulK_CCI - yep that's Dun Laoghaire. The car was on an old Irish reg, gold in colour. Looked to be in very good condition.
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16-12-2005, 12:59   #60
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@PaulK_CCI - yep that's Dun Laoghaire. The car was on an old Irish reg, gold in colour. Looked to be in very good condition.
yep, that's the one alright then. It must be owned by one of the residents there or a shop owner, as I have seen it loads of times over the past 5-6 years. The car is in reasonable condition unless the owner has done some work, but the air suspension is definitely faultly, but the owner, as most of them would do, just lives with it!

I would say then that with regards to the Citroen DS and other cars with a 'hydropneumatic' system, the term "hydraulic" is used incorrectly!!! So if I understand you guys correctly, the term 'hydraulic' just refers to one intricate part of the entire suspension system: The non-compressable hydraulic fluid system that is used to regulate the pneumatic (air/gas) system, as you say MercMad, completely separated from each other, but the one regulating the other.

DS I think you are confused because Mercedes used TWO types of suspension, the old AIRsuspension on the W109 series of the 300SE's that you made a picture of, and the later, much improved "HYDROPNEUMATIC" system used in the 450SEL 6.9 .

B.t.w I thought one of the members of the Blessington club has a green 450SEL 6.9 ?? I used to see it out on the shows.
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