Accessibility of the campus for a mobility impaired person?

PoniesRGr8 · 16-03-2005 4:55am #1

Hello everyone,

I am a 20 year old American college student with a form of cerebral palsy that affects my mobility, specifically my ability to walk. I use a walker to get around and can navigate steps as long as there is a railing or someone to assist me. I have excellent physical endurance and exercise regularly to maintain it.
I am considering going on a 6 week trip to study abroad in Ireland next summer that is offered through my university. I would love to participate in the program, but am doing research to determine whether or not I would realistically be able to live independently during that period. I have discussed my desires to the disability services office on my campus, but am posting here because, for 2 weeks of the program, I would be studying at Trinity College, and I would like to inquire about its accessibility level. I posted a similar query in the Disability forum here, and someone suggested that I post in this form for further information.

In general, how accessible are the classrooms? I am not sure exactly which buildings I would be studying in, but do any of the buildings have elevators, automatic doors etc.? As I mentioned before, I can handle flights of stairs but would need someone to take my walker up the stairs for me, which might pose somewhat of a problem.

How far apart are the classrooms, and how is the general layout of the campus and the surrounding terrain? I do walk slower than most people, and even more so on rough or uneven terrain. Are there any off-campus restaurants/facilities that are fairly easy to get to by cab or bus, if I wanted to go off-campus?

How about the dining facilities? Are there any accessible restrooms or on- campus housing facilities?

Are there any cutaways in the sidewalks and curbs?

Would disability services be able to assist me even though I am only studying there on a temporary basis?

I am terribly sorry for the barrage of questions but would greatly appreciate your kindness and consideration if someone here could assist me in finding the answers to some of my questions. You can post any responses here, or I can be contacted at: PoniesRGr8@aol.com

Thank you so much!

Sarah

ApeXaviour · 16-03-2005 2:45pm

PoniesRGr8 wrote:

I am considering going on a 6 week trip to study abroad in Ireland next summer that is offered through my university. I would love to participate in the program, but am doing research to determine whether or not I would realistically be able to live independently during that period.

I think you would. Though unfortunately as a result of the college's age, many of the buildings here span many eras and were not built with any hint of disabled people in mind.. What could possibly pose the largest problem are cobble-stones, one whole end of the college is covered with them. I have difficulty walking on them when inebriated, and girls generally need piggy-backs when wearing high-heels.

PoniesRGr8 wrote:

I have discussed my desires to the disability services office on my campus, but am posting here because, for 2 weeks of the program, I would be studying at Trinity College, and I would like to inquire about its accessibility level. I posted a similar query in the Disability forum here, and someone suggested that I post in this form for further information.

And I'm sorry to redirect you again but I have confidence these guys will be able to answer questions that we are not.. The message board of the welfare section (which covers disability) of our Students Union. http://su.netsoc.tcd.ie/modules.php?op=modload&name=XForum&file=forumdisplay&fid=4

PoniesRGr8 wrote:

In general, how accessible are the classrooms? I am not sure exactly which buildings I would be studying in, but do any of the buildings have elevators, automatic doors etc.?

That's the thing, it depends... All the newer buildings have elevators equipped. There are no automatic doors however, though don't worry we generally hold doors open for each-other here anyway.

PoniesRGr8 wrote:

As I mentioned before, I can handle flights of stairs but would need someone to take my walker up the stairs for me, which might pose somewhat of a problem.

How far apart are the classrooms, and how is the general layout of the campus and the surrounding terrain?

The lecture halls are placed erratically around campus. It severely depends on your course whether you will be concentrated in one end of college, in one lecture theatre or all over. You are lucky however that the campus is quite probably the most compact campus in the country as a result of its city centre location.. Here is a map http://www.tcd.ie/Maps/tcd_campus.html

PoniesRGr8 wrote:

I do walk slower than most people, and even more so on rough or uneven terrain. Are there any off-campus restaurants/facilities that are fairly easy to get to by cab or bus, if I wanted to go off-campus?

Entirely! We're in the very centre of the city, if you can walk between lecture halls, then you can walk to about thirty restaurants. Walk one step off campus and it's difficult not to get run-over by a cab or bus, so finding them also is of little problem.

PoniesRGr8 wrote:

How about the dining facilities? Are there any accessible restrooms or on- campus housing facilities?

Most buildings if not all buildings on campus have restrooms, they are not advertised however and it would require asking where they are in order to find them.

PoniesRGr8 wrote:

Are there any cutaways in the sidewalks and curbs?

Mostly yes.

PoniesRGr8 wrote:

Would disability services be able to assist me even though I am only studying there on a temporary basis?

Certainly

PoniesRGr8 wrote:

I am terribly sorry for the barrage of questions but would greatly appreciate your kindness and consideration if someone here could assist me in finding the answers to some of my questions. You can post any responses here, or I can be contacted at: PoniesRGr8@aol.com

Thank you so much!

Sarah

No worries

I hope you enjoy your time here..

Imposter · 16-03-2005 2:59pm

One thing about the lifts is that you may need to get a key for some of them depending on where your classes are. This is to stop lazy students from using them and means that people who actually need them can use them (as well as some lazy staff).

There is definitely some on-campus accomodation which is wheelchair friendly so you shouldn't have a problem. Similarly I think all buildings (well at least the main ones) have some sort of ramp access too.
There is also dining and toilet facilities that should cause you no problems (other than digestive problems

- no, not the toilets).

Crash · 16-03-2005 5:49pm

i'd say it would be pretty easy to stop the main problem areas within trinity with regards to disabilities - most likely front squares cobblestones in general, House 6 (though you most likely wont have to deal with anything in there at all)...how accessible is the arts building actually? does it have a lift? Hamilton, Nurses building etc. are properly accessible iirc, at least thats the reason they're used for SU council now and arts isnt....

just looking up stuff on walkers atm - You probably would have an issue with the doors on campus, however pretty much everyone on campus is generally quick enough to help with doors for anyone on crutches, walkers, wheelchairs etc.

hrmmm....really need to get Ross Wynne onto here - he'd have the best idea tbh

osd · 16-03-2005 6:49pm

To answer your questions I would need to know what type of course you'll be doing.
If it's a Science or an Engineering course then I have to say don't bother. That end of campus needs a right going over but it may take decades for it to be done.
For arts courses you'll find the main Arts Block fairly decent. The disability service are very friendly but do make sure they know in advance that you're coming over so they can try and organise any little extras you need. Email disability AT tcd DOT ie for more information.
There is a respite room in the Arts Block that you'd probaby be allowed use so make sure you ask for a key to it when you get here.

What could possibly pose the largest problem are cobble-stones

For the most part you can avoid this area so it needn't be a problem.

There is definitely some on-campus accomodation which is wheelchair friendly so you shouldn't have a problem.

This is likely to be a major problem. There are only 8 (EIGHT) rooms that are wheelchair friendly and there's always a high demand for them. You'll need to make your intentions known right now to the college so that a request can go in for you.

One thing about the lifts is that you may need to get a key for some of them depending on where your classes are.

The lifts are usually in fine working order and if you need a key for where ever you are then it'll be provided without any hastle. Also if anyone is using a lift and doesn't seem to need it then just plainly ask for them to vacate the lift. There are plenty of signs up saying that they are for students with disabilities only.

If you need any more information then email osd@tcdsu.org
(I'm emailing this to your account now...)

snorlax · 16-03-2005 6:52pm

try http://www.tcd.ie/disability/

Ross is really nice and should be able to help you. can you walk up many steps? the pav(trinity pub )is up quite a few steps. the arts block also has some steps as you go down into the canteen area, but there are some grab rails outside the arts building and the buttery/ bank of ireland ATMs. the cobbles on front square might pose a problem as the isnt really anything to grab onto, and the distance btween the arts block and buttery(hot food and pub) is problably around 100m or more.

again the website listed above is probably your best source for information, theyr very approachable and have an office in the arts block.

osd · 16-03-2005 7:03pm

the pav(trinity pub )is up quite a few steps.

If all goes well we could have a lift for the Pav by the begining of the next academic year!

the arts block also has some steps as you go down into the canteen area

There's also a lift for there too!

and the distance btween the arts block and buttery(hot food and pub) is problably around 100m or more.

We wouldn't be good hosts if we subjected ANY student to Buttery grub...

Ross is really nice and should be able to help you.

Grr... I'm really evil... no honest! :rolleyes:

ApeXaviour · 16-03-2005 9:36pm

osd wrote:

If it's a Science or an Engineering course then I have to say don't bother. That end of campus needs a right going over but it may take decades for it to be done.

I would have thought the opposite. Am I wrong in saying that "that" end of college is the newer end? Look at the size of the hamilton (et al) building? All wheelchair accessable.. The IAMS, INS, biochem, goldsmith, dental school all large and accessable. The only one I know for sure that isn't accessable is the old physics building. It only has one lecture theatre though, and Sarah doesn't seem like she'd have much hassle traversing the steps, as there no reason you would go up there unless you were going to a lecture. So there'd always be someone there to carry her apparatus.

Boston · 16-03-2005 9:49pm

The ham is very accesible, automatic doors, and two lifts, one exclusively for disabled people. Side entrance into the main ham lectures so no dealing with the steps in the lecture hall.

osd · 17-03-2005 12:08am

Fair points but please don't confuse access into buildings meaning that the whole building is too. Try the science labs... As far as I'm aware there isn't a half height table with room under it for a wheelchair as well as the various UA fittings. Also the older buildings chemistry, physics, maths(aka Westland Row), geography, geology weren't built with UA in mind. The lecture theatres don't meet the 4% rule of thumb for wheelchair spaces. Also try and access the Science or Engineering Faculty Offices. In fact these buildings are not up to Part M of the building standards (with sets out the very minimum UA requirements, never mind the TCD own-brand UA specifications, Part U).
My engineering comment comes from the over-reliance of the museum building.

Incidently Boston while you are 100% right that wheelchair users can come into the Joly, MacNeill & Maxwell these are emergancy exits with no automated doors and more importantly no tables for students in wheelchairs to take down notes.

I hope this clarifies what I meant above...

Kevin_rc_ie · 17-03-2005 12:31am

i think it does.

Boston · 17-03-2005 12:47pm

osd wrote:

Fair points but please don't confuse access into buildings meaning that the whole building is too. Try the science labs... As far as I'm aware there isn't a half height table with room under it for a wheelchair as well as the various UA fittings. Also the older buildings chemistry, physics, maths(aka Westland Row), geography, geology weren't built with UA in mind. The lecture theatres don't meet the 4% rule of thumb for wheelchair spaces. Also try and access the Science or Engineering Faculty Offices. In fact these buildings are not up to Part M of the building standards (with sets out the very minimum UA requirements, never mind the TCD own-brand UA specifications, Part U).
My engineering comment comes from the over-reliance of the museum building.

Incidently Boston while you are 100% right that wheelchair users can come into the Joly, MacNeill & Maxwell these are emergancy exits with no automated doors and more importantly no tables for students in wheelchairs to take down notes.

I hope this clarifies what I meant above...

Well the first point I'd make is that the girl isn't a wheelchair user, so your comment about not bothering was out of order.Their is more then enough access for someone with her degree of disability. The sience labs are very accessible and on the ground floor. Engineering labs tend to be in the sniam during first year, and in a variety of places after. As for no table for someone to take notes, I've only seen one lecture hall with this facility and thats in the civil engineering building, that said some of the arts block runs without permenant seating would do aswell.

Secondly, depending on the stream of engineering you doing, the museum building will either have a major impact or no impact at all on your ability to study. Theres nothing that can be done about the museum building, and from a personal level I'd rather see it stoped used for teaching rather then attempts made to make it more accessible.

osd · 17-03-2005 2:34pm

Hence why I asked Susan what subject she was studying.

The sience labs are very accessible

In what way may I ask? Bear in mind that there are other science labs on and off campus not just the Cocker labs that (I think) you are refering to.

depending on the stream of engineering you doing, the museum building will either have a major impact or no impact at all on your ability to study.

Given that myself (CS) and someone in statistics were the only students in the Faculty registered last year with physical disabilities it is hard to gauge how good the Engineering course is for someone with CP. I'd hate to recommend someone a course when there has been no history of supports being put in place before. Personally I think the Arts/BESS courses have a very good track record for students with physical disabilities hence why I believe Susan will be very happy at TCD!!!!

Theres nothing that can be done about the museum building, and from a personal level I'd rather see it stoped used for teaching rather then attempts made to make it more accessible.

I tend to agree with you although a similar building was altered some years ago to install a lift but that for me would be a tremendous waste of resources considering there's an immediate need to make the 1937 accessible as well as a lift being needed in Clinical Speech asap.

Anyway Boston if you do have an interest in disability email me and we can meet up. I'm only too happy to get feedback from anyone.

Boston · 17-03-2005 3:12pm

Personally I found the labs I've had very accessible, that said you did mention off campus labs, while I've no experience of these, judging by oriel house and the like, I'd imagine access is very poor. CS would definitely use the museum building more then first and second year engineering students, that said with the new building coming on line, things might change in that department.

Personally I think the Arts/BESS courses have a very good track record for students with physical disabilities hence why I believe Susan will be very happy at TCD!!!!

Well in fairness it very much easier for them to have a better track record. Engineering facilities have to be practical first and accessible second. Labs and workshops are not an issue for Bess or arts. Also have you ever used the lecky library entrance? The automatic doors open outwards, anybody in a wheelchair can't use them because you have to get within the wing of the doors for them to respond and then quickly move back. Still has very narrow passage ways in and around the swift Berkley and lecky libraries.

As for alterations, again back to listed building status. Also the museum building has some very interesting engineering properties in its structure and the way different stones types and shapes are used to regulate the temperature. Any major work like installation of a lift would drastically damage this.

My interest comes from doing a universal design module last year. Apart from that I don't have much.

Crash · 17-03-2005 3:40pm

Boston wrote:

Personally I found the labs I've had very accessible, that said you did mention off campus labs, while I've no experience of these, judging by oriel house and the like, I'd imagine access is very poor. CS would definitely use the museum building more then first and second year engineering students, that said with the new building coming on line, things might change in that department.

actually the new Lloyd wont change all that much - seemingly from talking to Dr. Abrahamson, the use that undergrads will get from it is minimal - i think two lecture theatres are being held for CS only use but i'd say they'll be in quite high demand.

Nietzschean · 17-03-2005 3:43pm

there is 6 lecture theatres in the basement though isn't there?

though all the stats classes have moved in there already(old stats building is gone)...

osd · 17-03-2005 3:47pm

Boston wrote:

Personally I found the labs I've had very accessible, that said you did mention off campus labs, while I've no experience of these, judging by oriel house and the like, I'd imagine access is very poor. CS would definitely use the museum building more then first and second year engineering students, that said with the new building coming on line, things might change in that department.

Well in fairness it very much easier for them to have a better track record. Engineering facilities have to be practical first and accessible second. Labs and workshops are not an issue for Bess or arts. Also have you ever used the lecky library entrance? The automatic doors open outwards, anybody in a wheelchair can't use them because you have to get within the wing of the doors for them to respond and then quickly move back. Still has very narrow passage ways in and around the swift Berkley and lecky libraries.

As for alterations, again back to listed building status. Also the museum building has some very interesting engineering properties in its structure and the way different stones types and shapes are used to regulate the temperature. Any major work like installation of a lift would drastically damage this.

My interest comes from doing a universal design module last year. Apart from that I don't have much.

Here, here to the new Lloyd building. There's a few issues with it (open thread stairs if I remember correctly) but they'll be sorted by the next year. Incidently I've got the plans for the Sports Centre in my room and all I can say is WOW! If they carry through on what is proposed then I think we'll have a place to be proud of!

Re: Museum Building
I know that some buildings have external glass lifts attached to them so as to avoid obvious issues with the internal structure being inaccessable. But this is something to think about in a few years down the line.

Re: Lecky
I'm aware of the issue there. I'll have to go through my notes of various meetings before I'll comment further on it.

Let me guess... The UD module was by Alexis Donnelly?! He really knows his stuff. You had a good lecturer there!

Nietzschean · 17-03-2005 3:49pm

osd wrote:

Re: Museum Building
I know that some buildings have external glass lifts attached to them so as to avoid obvious issues with the internal structure being inaccessable. But this is something to think about in a few years down the line.

Um i'd be guessing the museum building is a listed one and any such lift would be prohibited... personally i think just remove any need for UG students to enter and leave it as it is, imo its the nicest building on campus n should just be left as is. There is such a thing as going too far imo.

osd · 17-03-2005 3:50pm

Darth Bobo wrote:

there is 6 lecture theatres in the basement though isn't there?

though all the stats classes have moved in there already(old stats building is gone)...

There is indeed but I'm not aware of where any lift is to them.
Either way college has a list of all the approved lecture theatres for students with UA needs. That way they can schedule classes elsewhere if needs be.

osd · 17-03-2005 3:53pm

Darth Bobo wrote:

Um i'd be guessing the museum building is a listed one and any such lift would be prohibited... personally i think just remove any need for UG students to enter and leave it as it is, imo its the nicest building on campus n should just be left as is. There is such a thing as going too far imo.

Absolutely, you have to be practical about these things.
I was just explaining something that has been done elsewhere.

Also just because a building is listed doesn't mean you can't make alterations... The Arts Block is listed (not joking!) and needed planning permission for the Lecky doors to be changed. It usually takes 3 months for such planning permission to be approved.

Nietzschean · 17-03-2005 4:01pm

osd wrote:

Also just because a building is listed doesn't mean you can't make alterations... The Arts Block is listed (not joking!) and needed planning permission for the Lecky doors to be changed. It usually takes 3 months for such planning permission to be approved.

Well judging from my experence with westland row.... they put new windows inside the old ones because they weren't allowed change them at all. Something like the museum building to get an external addtion? i wouldn' see that getting passed but o well.

osd · 17-03-2005 4:04pm

You're probably 100% right. As I said before though there's more important areas needing attention.

PoniesRGr8 · 17-03-2005 4:06pm

Hello everyone,

First of all, I'd like to thank everyone here for being so helpful and kind. I am truly grateful for all the information and thoughtful answers that you have provided for me.

From what I've gathered here thus far, it sounds like I will be able to navigate TCD with no major difficulties. Perhaps I was unclear in my original post, but unfortunately, I will only be studying at TDC on a temporary basis, within the scope of the international studies program that is offered through the United States university that I am currently enrolled in.

While my university is mostly accessible to those with a mobility impairment, it has many historical buildings, some of which are completely inaccessible. It also has quite a few buildings without automatic doors or accessible toilets. I have still found ways to manage, however, such as learning how to open a non automatic door and guide my walker through it. Stairs are also not a problem for me, since a lot of my classes here are located upstairs and sometimes the lifts are out of order! As long as there is some sort of railing or something to use for support, I don't have any problems. My campus is very large with quite a bit of distance between classrooms. I do use a bus service to get to some of my classes, but for the most part, distances are not a problem for me as long as I allow adequate time to arrive at my destination. It is also in a mountainous area, so I have to deal with a lot of hills and inclines as I walk to and from classes. Nevertheless, I am able to fully participate in university activities regardless of anything related to my disability.

I am not sure which area of the campus that I would be using, although I have contacted the director of the Ireland trip that I would like to attend, to see if he can provide any information on that. I'd assume it may be somewhere in the Arts block though, since I am taking Media and Graphics courses here in the states and the classes that I'd take in Ireland are supposed to reflect that subject area. If I find out for sure what buildings I'd be in, I'll post here to let everyone know, and hopefully someone could tell me how accessible those particular buildings are.

Thanks again for all of your help, I really appreciate it!
Enjoy your St Patty's Day!

Sarah

Boston · 17-03-2005 4:07pm

osd wrote:

The UD module was by Alexis Donnelly?! He really knows his

I found him extremely poor and his module to be a load of PC bollix tbh. I can't quiet remember what the exam questions where, but they followed a pattern of, which ever of the following statements if most PC is the correct answer, not what's practical,and of course whose to say whats most PC. He might know his stuff but he didn't convey that very well to me or my class mates. It seems a very half assed attempt at meeting some EU directive and little more. Engineers like yes no answers, not broad ambiguity and euphuisms.

When designing something an engineer doesn't what to here and disabled person is a differently able'd person, he wants to know what the limitations to that persons abilities are, can that person walk up a stairs or do they need a lift, if a lift is provided can that person operate it themselves. Tbh the whole concept of UD I took objection to, as it took into no account limited resources and acceptable use of product.

Maybe I got the wrong impression form the guy, he did miss afew lecture due to illness and it was the first year of the module.

osd · 17-03-2005 4:13pm

PoniesRGr8 wrote:

Hello everyone,

First of all, I'd like to thank everyone here for being so helpful and kind. I am truly grateful for all the information and thoughtful answers that you have provided for me.

From what I've gathered here thus far, it sounds like I will be able to navigate TCD with no major difficulties. Perhaps I was unclear in my original post, but unfortunately, I will only be studying at TDC on a temporary basis, within the scope of the international studies program that is offered through the United States university that I am currently enrolled in.
<snip>
Thanks again for all of your help, I really appreciate it!
Enjoy your St Patty's Day!

Sarah

Sounds like you'll be fine for coming here...
As I said make sure to tell TCD early enough so that you can get any little extras sorted for you before arriving!
Good Luck

osd · 17-03-2005 4:24pm

Boston wrote:

I found him extremely poor and his module to be a load of PC bollix tbh. I can't quiet remember what the exam questions where, but they followed a pattern of, which ever of the following statements if most PC is the correct answer, not what's practical,and of course whose to say whats most PC. He might know his stuff but he didn't convey that very well to me or my class mates. It seems a very half assed attempt at meeting some EU directive and little more. Engineers like yes no answers, not broad ambiguity and euphuisms.

When designing something an engineer doesn't what to here and disabled person is a differently able'd person, he wants to know what the limitations to that persons abilities are, can that person walk up a stairs or do they need a lift, if a lift is provided can that person operate it themselves. Tbh the whole concept of UD I took objection to, as it took into no account limited resources and acceptable use of product.

Maybe I got the wrong impression form the guy, he did miss afew lecture due to illness and it was the first year of the module.

I only know him from the meetings I have with him. He comes across very well usually.
UD is a fairly new thing in having to adapt to and it is undoubtably something that is seen as PC but as someone who benifits from UD all I can say is that it's an absolute Godsend.
Besides most UD work is done at the Architects drawing board (Or at least that's the approch in TCD that they try to aim at).

Boston · 17-03-2005 4:42pm

Building wise yes, however engineers design everything from phones to kettles

Agent Smith · 18-03-2005 3:49pm

talk to desert circus, he's our welfare officer and he's the man who will give you the lowdown on any extra infomation you need.

Joe

Kevin_rc_ie · 18-03-2005 3:51pm

engineers design everything from phones to kettles

so what do people in industrial design do? are they engineers? after medical ppl, engineers have histortically been the next category of people to be severly up their own asses in terms of how important they are for civilisation.

John · 18-03-2005 11:50pm

Kevin_rc_ie wrote:

so what do people in industrial design do? are they engineers? after medical ppl, engineers have histortically been the next category of people to be severly up their own asses in terms of how important they are for civilisation.

But think where we'd be without engineers?

Kevin_rc_ie · 18-03-2005 11:53pm

well look where we'd be without guys with shovels digging holes.

Accessibility of the campus for a mobility impaired person?

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