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New Bus Fares

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24

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    #32
    Birneybau
    Registered Users Posts: 10,227 ✭✭✭✭Birneybau


    wretcheddomain wrote: »
    I didn't realize money was expressed as digital time, nor did I realize there's that much difference between 2:15 and 2:05. Learn something new everyday on boards though. :rolleyes:

    Was there a need for the :rolleyes:?


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    #33
    Birneybau
    Registered Users Posts: 10,227 ✭✭✭✭Birneybau


    SirLemonhead wrote: »
    For Dublin bus, the new cash fare is €2.80, the new Leap fare is €2.05

    That's a difference of 75 cents. Unless I've misinterpreted the point you're trying to make..

    It was the punctuation he had an issue with because he has nothing better to do.


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    #34
    munchkin_utd
    Registered Users Posts: 7,834 ✭✭✭munchkin_utd


    the new prices are mostly 100%.
    you can travel with a leap card for a smilar price to a number of years back OR pay an ever increasing penalty for paying in cash and indeed "fumbling" with change holding up the rest of the bus with your change counting.
    If anything the penalty for using cash isnt high enough yet, but its getting there.


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    #35
    dublinstevie
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 86 ✭✭dublinstevie


    SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »
    Bus Eireann average wage: €50,623
    Irish Rail average wage: €53,108
    Dublin Bus average wage: €52,656

    Aircoach : €37.713
    Lothian Scotland: €42,765
    First Manchester: €30,470
    ???????I have worked as a driver for Dublin Bus for the past 15years and ive never earned 52,656 in any given year,either im on the wrong pay scale and getting screwed or you are talking bollocks,id go with the latter.


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    #36
    Birneybau
    Registered Users Posts: 10,227 ✭✭✭✭Birneybau


    dublinstevie wrote: »
    ???????I have worked as a driver for Dublin Bus for the past 15years and ive never earned 52,656 in any given year,either im on the wrong pay scale and getting screwed or you are talking bollocks,id go with the latter.

    Think that's just for the drivers of the 46a.


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    #37
    Egginacup
    Site Banned Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭Egginacup


    SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »
    Bus Eireann average wage: €50,623
    Irish Rail average wage: €53,108
    Dublin Bus average wage: €52,656

    Aircoach : €37.713
    Lothian Scotland: €42,765
    First Manchester: €30,470

    Lovely 3 bedroom apartment in Manchester City Centre: £180,000

    Squalid, pokey, damp, poorly finished 2.5 bed shoe-box
    with Dickensian storage heaters in "rejuvenated" Dublin wasteland: €1.9 Million (€200,000 extra gets pot-holed parking space).


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    #38
    moxin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,203 ✭✭✭moxin


    Topping up a Leap card in a shop is time consuming especially when there is a queue. I do topup at the Luas machines whenever i'm in town. Why can't they have topup machines like the Luas ones in the suburbs with no Luas instead of trekking to a shop? Like an ATM perhaps but only takes money and is 24 hr.


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    #39
    Mr. CooL ICE
    Registered Users Posts: 17,498 ✭✭✭✭Mr. CooL ICE


    wretcheddomain wrote: »
    I didn't realize money was expressed as digital time, nor did I realize there's that much difference between 2:15 and 2:05. Learn something new everyday on boards though. :rolleyes:

    It's fine once you get used to it. If something costs €25.50, you say it costs "half past one tomorrow"


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    #40
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    B0jangles wrote: »
    Best value for me has to be the dublin bus 10 journey ticket - it costs 27.50 (used to be 22.50 but went up massively a couple of years ago) so that works out as 2.75 per journey, and you can take as many buses as you like for 90 minutes after each journey starts - so say you start out in shankill - get the bus to the city centre, then switch to a bus to Blanchardstown; the whole journey will cost you 2.75 in total.

    Leap is crap by comparison.

    Of course, they are working on phasing out the paper tickets, you know for customer convenience.

    How is Leap card crap by comparison?

    It's the exact same price as a Leap card weekly cap, €27.50. In fact, if the Travel 90s are going up, it's cheaper because Leap card caps are untouched in this price hike.

    It might be more value for money for non-frequent commuters compared to the Leap card daily cap of €6.90, I'll give you that.


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    #41
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    mariaalice wrote: »
    Seriously what are people doing on Dublin bus using change in this day and age, Why would anyone spend more money by using cash!!.
    I only get the bus occasionally, from the stop outside my house into town and back out again.
    If I were to use a leap card, I would need to check my credit the night before, and if it's too low, drive down to the local shop before it closes at 10pm to top-up my leap card.
    If I discover that I have no credit before I leave for work, there is nowhere within a 30 minute walk to "activate" the top-up on my card before 8am.

    So I use cash instead. Because I have a big jar of cash in my house, so it's more convenient. The cash queue for the bus is also shorter than the cash queue for the leap machine.

    The bus I get has WiFi onboard, so it could very easily charge leap cards in real time. There is literally no good reason why this activation nonsense still exists. Even busses without wifi could collect the data from any leap cards used and then sync with the central database at the depot.


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    #42
    Turtyturd
    Registered Users Posts: 28,394 ✭✭✭✭Turtyturd


    Hard to blame Dublin Bus, if someone was willing to give me more money every time I asked for it even though my work output was sh*t, I'd keep chancing my arm.


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    #43
    munchkin_utd
    Registered Users Posts: 7,834 ✭✭✭munchkin_utd


    seamus wrote: »
    <snip>
    If I were to use a leap card, I would need to check my credit the night before, and if it's too low, drive down to the local shop before it closes at 10pm to top-up my leap card.
    If I discover that I have no credit before I leave for work, there is nowhere within a 30 minute walk to "activate" the top-up on my card before 8am.
    <snip>
    if you check here (as already mentioned) the auto top up will ensure you always have at least a tenner on your leap card:
    http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/News-Centre/General-News/Introducing-Leap-Card-Auto-Top-Up/

    so a) no need to check the night before and b) no need to re-activate as everything is automatic


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    #44
    Slot Machine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 126 ✭✭Slot Machine


    Birneybau wrote: »
    People that don't have Leap cards are mad.

    Not all bus routes support the Leap card yet.


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    #45
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    munchkin_utd wrote: »
    if you check here (as already mentioned) the auto top up will ensure you always have at least a tenner on your leap card:
    http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/News-Centre/General-News/Introducing-Leap-Card-Auto-Top-Up/

    so a) no need to check the night before and b) no need to re-activate as everything is automatic
    €10 seems a bit much. That's two months worth of bus travel for me.

    Anyway, that kind of proves my point. If they can auto top-up without activation, then you can do normal top-up without activation. There's no good reason why activation is required.


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    #46
    Rothmans
    Registered Users Posts: 1,805 ✭✭✭Rothmans


    SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »
    Bus Eireann average wage: €50,623
    Irish Rail average wage: €53,108
    Dublin Bus average wage: €52,656

    Aircoach : €37.713
    Lothian Scotland: €42,765
    First Manchester: €30,470

    Where are you getting these figures?

    The only other place that I can see them is by some other unsourced post on politics.ie (here: http://www.politics.ie/forum/current-affairs/210432-bus-eireann-strike-likely-4.html#post6744718 )

    A quick Google search would suggest that the average DB driver salary WITH overtime included is €38,000 - http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/transport-chaos-the-main-issues-causing-row-29474517.html
    .
    There's a significant difference between that and what you've quoted. Perhaps during the boom, with huge overtime going, the take-home pay might have risen. But what you're quoting now certainly is disingenuous at the very least.


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    #47
    dquinnan
    Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭dquinnan


    Passenger numbers are down so we'll increase the fares for another consecutive year, great logic there!

    They should at least freeze Leap fares for a year or two to throw hard pressed commuters a bone. They didn't raise the tax on petrol this year did they? but no problem hitting people who have no other alternative than the poxy bus.

    So bloody irritating too when you see out of it drug addicts/drunks / gougers stroll on without paying a thing, while I have to search my place for coins on a Wednesday to try and gather enough cash to top up my leap for the remainder of the week.


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    #48
    dublinstevie
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 86 ✭✭dublinstevie


    dquinnan wrote: »
    Passenger numbers are down so we'll increase the fares for another consecutive year, great logic there!

    They should at least freeze Leap fares for a year or two to throw hard pressed commuters a bone. They didn't raise the tax on petrol this year did they? but no problem hitting people who have no other alternative than the poxy bus.

    So bloody irritating too when you see out of it drug addicts/drunks / gougers stroll on without paying a thing, while I have to search my place for coins on a Wednesday to try and gather enough cash to top up my leap for the remainder of the week.

    blame the government for cutting the subvention year after year,also the fare increases are dictated by the NTA not DB


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    #49
    WoollyRedHat
    Registered Users Posts: 10,462 ✭✭✭✭WoollyRedHat


    moxin wrote: »
    Topping up a Leap card in a shop is time consuming especially when there is a queue. I do topup at the Luas machines whenever i'm in town. Why can't they have topup machines like the Luas ones in the suburbs with no Luas instead of trekking to a shop? Like an ATM perhaps but only takes money and is 24 hr.

    Maybe if people didn't top up by amounts which will only do them for one week and topped up by a larger amount or not top up at peak times (i.e in the morning just before commute gets underway) then it wouldn't be such a problem.


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    #50
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    seamus wrote: »
    Anyway, that kind of proves my point. If they can auto top-up without activation, then you can do normal top-up without activation. There's no good reason why activation is required.

    It's the exact same with an Oyster card.

    I presumed the reason behind it was something like this:

    If you top up online, there's no way for the system to contact your card(unlike your phone) and tell it to increase balance by €X amount. So you go to a Luas stop/train station/shop. Bus card readers can't download and store a list of cards to be topped up so you can't collect your top up on a bus.

    When you choose auto top up, once again, you go to a Luas stop or whatever to activate it. It stores your choice on your card i.e. If balance falls below €10, top up by €20. You use it on a bus or any other card reader, it reads it and sees the balance is below €10, it tells the card to top up by €20.

    It seemed logical to me. It's probably not the reason.


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    #51
    dublinstevie
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 86 ✭✭dublinstevie


    seamus wrote: »
    I only get the bus occasionally, from the stop outside my house into town and back out again.
    If I were to use a leap card, I would need to check my credit the night before, and if it's too low, drive down to the local shop before it closes at 10pm to top-up my leap card.
    If I discover that I have no credit before I leave for work, there is nowhere within a 30 minute walk to "activate" the top-up on my card before 8am.

    So I use cash instead. Because I have a big jar of cash in my house, so it's more convenient. The cash queue for the bus is also shorter than the cash queue for the leap machine.

    The bus I get has WiFi onboard, so it could very easily charge leap cards in real time. There is literally no good reason why this activation nonsense still exists. Even busses without wifi could collect the data from any leap cards used and then sync with the central database at the depot.

    The transport companies love people like you,even though its blatantly obvious cash is a rip off compared to leap card you still insist on paying cash,why not cash all your coins in at the bank and top up a leap card with that money,more journeys from your jar of coins,everyone moaning and groaning because the cash fares have risen,obvious answer is get a LEAP CARD


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    #52
    dquinnan
    Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭dquinnan


    WoollyRedHat wrote: »
    Maybe if people didn't top up by amounts which will only do them for one week and topped up by a larger amount or not top up at peak times (i.e in the morning just before commute gets underway) then it wouldn't be such a problem.

    Maybe people can't to afford to top up for multiple weeks in advance. I certainly can't. Same reason I can't use the auto top up as the minimum amount is 30 quid, when it should be half that. NTA /Leap/whichever overpaid quango is in charge this week haven't a clue.


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    #53
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    dublinstevie wrote: »
    The transport companies love people like you,even though its blatantly obvious cash is a rip off compared to leap card you still insist on paying cash,why not cash all your coins in at the bank and top up a leap card with that money,more journeys from your jar of coins,everyone moaning and groaning because the cash fares have risen,obvious answer is get a LEAP CARD
    I'm actually not moaning and groaning at all. Our public transport fares in Dublin are pretty reasonable for what we get in comparison to other capital cities.
    The reason I don't just cash in all the coins is because I use it for other stuff too.

    I'm moaning and groaning about the Leap card itself and how poorly it continues to be implemented.
    Maybe people can't to afford to top up for multiple weeks in advance. I certainly can't. Same reason I can't use the auto top up as the minimum amount is 30 quid, when it should be half that. NTA /Leap/whichever overpaid quango is in charge this week haven't a clue.
    30 quid? That's six months worth of bus fares for me.

    That's mental, there are so many people who cannot afford to just have €30 randomly leave their bank account because they're watching their pennies. Another example of how poorly the leap system has been thought out.

    I think what's frustrating is that leap is *almost* there as a world-class integrated ticketing system, they've just put these unnecessary blocks in the way which effectively make it impossible to get 100% penetration.


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    #54
    moxin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,203 ✭✭✭moxin


    WoollyRedHat wrote: »
    Maybe if people didn't top up by amounts which will only do them for one week and topped up by a larger amount or not top up at peak times (i.e in the morning just before commute gets underway) then it wouldn't be such a problem.

    I'm not a commuter, I do always make sure after my infrequent travels to have bout a tenner on my card. Its just so damn awkward and time consuming to top up the card and yet the Luas machines are so fast for this.

    It would be magnificent if those type of machines were in every suburb, it would go a long way to sort out the mess until the online topup is efficient.


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    #55
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,464 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    Nimr wrote: »
    It's the exact same with an Oyster card.

    I presumed the reason behind it was something like this:

    If you top up online, there's no way for the system to contact your card(unlike your phone) and tell it to increase balance by €X amount. So you go to a Luas stop/train station/shop. Bus card readers can't download and store a list of cards to be topped up so you can't collect your top up on a bus.

    When you choose auto top up, once again, you go to a Luas stop or whatever to activate it. It stores your choice on your card i.e. If balance falls below €10, top up by €20. You use it on a bus or any other card reader, it reads it and sees the balance is below €10, it tells the card to top up by €20.

    It seemed logical to me. It's probably not the reason.
    They have an account based system that is matched to your card when you register,the card is nothing more than something to show up your account on the bus. It could be easily implemented to do away with the activation crap. Much like a bank account and card.


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    #56
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,951 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    Nimr wrote: »
    How is Leap card crap by comparison?

    It's the exact same price as a Leap card weekly cap, €27.50. In fact, if the Travel 90s are going up, it's cheaper because Leap card caps are untouched in this price hike.

    It might be more value for money for non-frequent commuters compared to the Leap card daily cap of €6.90, I'll give you that.

    My 10-Journey is valid for months, I can choose to use it or not use it for days or even weeks and it is still valid. A weekly capped 27.50 leap charge is not comparable at all.

    Say I use my ticket twice in one day to get from Shankill to Blanchardstown and back; that'll cost me 5.50 in total, it'd be 6.90 using leap.

    If I'm only going one way, it'd cost me 2.75, compared to 5.00 with leap.

    They are attempting to make it appear that leap is good value by hiking up the cost of other tickets or straight-up discontinuing them.


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    #57
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,986 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »
    Bus Eireann average wage: €50,623
    Irish Rail average wage: €53,108
    Dublin Bus average wage: €52,656

    Aircoach : €37.713
    Lothian Scotland: €42,765
    First Manchester: €30,470
    different countries with different living costs. the wages for the 3 CIE companies were never that high for the majority of staff, maybe the highest grades with overtime during the boom, but not now. the wages have come down a lot. irish rail drivers do deserve to be payed highly for the skills involved. i see you didn't have the wages for a UK rail company. tube drivers apparently earn about 43000 a year. if true, they deserve it and more.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #58
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,464 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    OSI wrote: »
    The bus cannot access your account though. Your card is a local replica of your account.

    Once the bus has an internet connection it can,as in every bus in Dublin.


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    #59
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,464 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    OSI wrote: »
    Ever tried to use the Wifi on the buses? It's ****. What's the driver supposed to do if there's no reception? Takes long enough boarding a bus without waiting for the machine to connect to a remote server and validate your balance every single time.

    There is no reason why the system cant have a dedicated connection,credit and debit card machines seem to work fine.

    There's no reason also why leap card users should have to go near the driver either.With a tag on and off system.

    Or maybe some sensible alternative like a top up point at the bus stop. But sure that's investment,what good does investment do...


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    #60
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,986 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    dquinnan wrote: »
    Passenger numbers are down so we'll increase the fares for another consecutive year, great logic there!

    They should at least freeze Leap fares for a year or two to throw hard pressed commuters a bone. They didn't raise the tax on petrol this year did they? but no problem hitting people who have no other alternative than the poxy bus.

    So bloody irritating too when you see out of it drug addicts/drunks / gougers stroll on without paying a thing, while I have to search my place for coins on a Wednesday to try and gather enough cash to top up my leap for the remainder of the week.
    while i agree with you, blame the severe cut in subsidy and a government who has decided that the passenger must pay a higher share.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #61
    The_Valeyard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,452 ✭✭✭✭The_Valeyard


    Anyone know why it takes 24/48 hours for your top up to appear on the system?


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