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Record burner running time.

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  • 24-10-2014 3:23pm
    #1
    Wearb
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,238 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    I read some time ago about hooking a clock up to oil burner to record running hours. Do any of you know of a suitable clock for this purpose? It is needed to record approx usage in a rental property.

    Please follow site and charter rules. "Resistance is futile"



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    #2
    mikeyjames9
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 700 ✭✭✭mikeyjames9


    http://ie.rs-online.com/mobile/p/hours-run-meters/7350194/
    I think they're actually 50hz
    That's a mechanical type with no reset

    It might be the simplest solution but needs a box etc

    I presume it will just count when connected to the switched live from the boiler stats

    You could stick it into a tamper proof box


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    #3
    Wearb
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,238 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wearb


    mikeyjames9 wrote: »
    http://ie.rs-online.com/mobile/p/hours-run-meters/7350194/
    I think they're actually 50hz
    That's a mechanical type with no reset

    It might be the simplest solution but needs a box etc

    I presume it will just count when connected to the switched live from the boiler stats

    You could stick it into a tamper proof box

    That is along the lines of what I need. I would be placing it inside the house and wired back to stat output. Pity it can't be reset.
    Thanks

    Please follow site and charter rules. "Resistance is futile"



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    #4
    mikeyjames9
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 700 ✭✭✭mikeyjames9


    Wearb wrote: »
    That is along the lines of what I need. I would be placing it inside the house and wired back to stat output. Pity it can't be reset.
    Thanks

    You can buy them with reset
    But I'd guess they're the digital type only
    They're on the same website

    It might get tricky if you need a permanent supply for a digital type and it's not available
    Unfortunately im not familiar with them


    What exactly is the application?


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    #5
    Wearb
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,238 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wearb


    mikeyjames9 wrote: »
    You can buy them with reset
    But I'd guess they're the digital type only
    They're on the same website

    It might get tricky if you need a permanent supply for a digital type and it's not available
    Unfortunately im not familiar with them


    What exactly is the application?

    To record the number of hours an oil burner is running. From there I can work out usage within certain acceptable tolerances.

    Please follow site and charter rules. "Resistance is futile"



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    #6
    dingding
    Registered Users Posts: 4,931 ✭✭✭dingding


    I dont think it will work properly by connecting to the stat output in the house.

    There is a thermostat in the boiler also. The most accurate method would be to wire it into the boiler to something that is powered when the boiler is actually running.


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    #7
    mikeyjames9
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 700 ✭✭✭mikeyjames9


    Ya
    supply to burner obviously after boiler stats

    But would that even do it?
    She'd still count if it locks-out
    Would you have to wire it in the control box to get it right


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    #8
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,370 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    I often use things like this https://www1.elfa.se/data1/wwwroot/assets/datasheets/zpMFT-ITU24S_data_e.pdf

    I set them for 1 pulse every second and take them in to a datalogger, I then use a pulse output from a flow meter and take that into the same data logger. It gives a good indication of what's going on , because then you can get really fancy with flow and return temps. With out the datalogger a you can connect then directly to digital or analogue counters.


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    #9
    Billy Bunting
    Registered Users Posts: 2,842 ✭✭✭Billy Bunting


    mikeyjames9 wrote: »
    Ya
    supply to burner obviously after boiler stats

    But would that even do it?
    She'd still count if it locks-out
    Would you have to wire it in the control box to get it right

    They can be wired off oil pump solenoid via control box.


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    #10
    mikeyjames9
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 700 ✭✭✭mikeyjames9


    Billy Bunting wrote: »
    They can be wired off oil pump solenoid via control box.

    sounds more like it if you're not getting into trouble by tampering with the unit

    But what use is this burner run-time information when you have it?


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    #11
    Wearb
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,238 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wearb


    mikeyjames9 wrote: »
    sounds more like it if you're not getting into trouble by tampering with the unit

    But what use is this burner run-time information when you have it?

    It is for a landlord who collects his rent weekly from that particular property. He supplies the oil but charges weekly for it. At moment it is a lot of guess work and dipping tank regularly. He asked me if I could come up with a cheap option. He is a good customer and a decent landlord.

    A flow meter could be used, but because of positioning it would not be near as convenient as the electrical counter option.

    Please follow site and charter rules. "Resistance is futile"



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    #12
    Wearb
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,238 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wearb


    Billy Bunting wrote: »
    They can be wired off oil pump solenoid via control box.

    Is there not reduced voltage there billy?

    Please follow site and charter rules. "Resistance is futile"



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    #13
    Billy Bunting
    Registered Users Posts: 2,842 ✭✭✭Billy Bunting


    RS do hour counters that run from low as 3v, choose one for your application.


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    #14
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,370 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Wearb wrote: »
    It is for a landlord who collects his rent weekly from that particular property. He supplies the oil but charges weekly for it. At moment it is a lot of guess work and dipping tank regularly. He asked me if I could come up with a cheap option. He is a good customer and a decent landlord.

    A flow meter could be used, but because of positioning it would not be near as convenient as the electrical counter option.
    Run time won't tell how much oil is being used. You need a flow meter to quantify how much oil is actually being used.


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    #15
    Billy Bunting
    Registered Users Posts: 2,842 ✭✭✭Billy Bunting


    ted1 wrote: »
    Run time won't tell how much oil is being used. You need a flow meter to quantify how much oil is actually being used.

    It will if you know Nozzle size and pump pressure.


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    #16
    mikeyjames9
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 700 ✭✭✭mikeyjames9


    ted1 wrote: »
    Run time won't tell how much oil is being used. You need a flow meter to quantify how much oil is actually being used.

    Would be better seeing as how the OP just wants to measure oil usage basically

    Is there much to fitting one?


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    #17
    gctest50
    Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    Wearb wrote: »
    I read some time ago about hooking a clock up to oil burner to record running hours. Do any of you know of a suitable clock for this purpose? It is needed to record approx usage in a rental property.

    http://www.commercialfuelsolutions.co.uk/systems/flow_meter/oil_heating_meter/

    loads off meters around


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    #18
    Wearb
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,238 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wearb


    mikeyjames9 wrote: »
    Would be better seeing as how the OP just wants to measure oil usage basically

    Is there much to fitting one?

    It is the flexibility with the positioning that make the electrical route more desirable.

    Please follow site and charter rules. "Resistance is futile"



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    #19
    dingding
    Registered Users Posts: 4,931 ✭✭✭dingding


    http://www.tanks.ie/products_id/385/apollo-smart-oil-monitor.htm

    I have one of these. It measures the level of the oil in the tank and returns the number of litres.

    As it is based on the volume of oil there may be issues as temperature changes and the oil expands and contracts but it might be worth considering.


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    #20
    mikeyjames9
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 700 ✭✭✭mikeyjames9


    Wearb wrote: »
    It is the flexibility with the positioning that make the electrical route more desirable.

    I wasn't clear at first if it was for billing purposes or just information

    If you're billing for oil use you should fit the flow meter

    It's a no brainer


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    #21
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,370 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Wearb wrote: »
    It is the flexibility with the positioning that make the electrical route more desirable.

    To bill for Oil, the only way to do this is to quantify the oil being used and only an Actual flow meter will do this.

    Why not just let the tenants provide their own Oil?


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    #22
    Wearb
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,238 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wearb


    ted1 wrote: »

    Why not just let the tenants provide their own Oil?

    Because they are not good managers and cannot even be allowed to pay monthly. It is a little complicated, because they used little or no heat last year and the house got all damp. They now have to use a minimum amount each week in winter or leave. I don't know all the details, but I would have asked them to leave long ago.
    As I said before, he is a good landlord, perhaps even gullible and takes every sob story on board.

    Some of the clocks mentioned here will fit the bill perfectally. Thanks for helping.

    Please follow site and charter rules. "Resistance is futile"



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    #23
    Man of Aran
    Registered Users Posts: 237 ✭✭Man of Aran


    I see that King^span and some others have fuel tank level meters on the market (some wireless with apps too). Assuming these are accurate, they could give a very clear indication of daily consumption / drawdown from tank.
    Unless there are multiple consumers drawing off a single supply tank, surely this could be a solution for around 100euro or thereabouts.


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    #24
    mikeyjames9
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 700 ✭✭✭mikeyjames9


    Wearb wrote: »

    Some of the clocks mentioned here will fit the bill perfectally. Thanks for helping.

    that's alright til there's a mistake or a dispute


    isn't there 3x as much work involved in wiring the hour-meter as fitting a flow meter


    the hour meter is easier to bypass too


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    #25
    Wearb
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,238 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wearb


    mikeyjames9 wrote: »
    that's alright til there's a mistake or a dispute

    There can be a dispute on any meter that's not calibrated and sealed by weights and measures.

    Why do you not accept my word that the clock will do what's required.

    Please follow site and charter rules. "Resistance is futile"



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    #26
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,370 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Wearb wrote: »
    There can be a dispute on any meter that's not calibrated and sealed by weights and measures.

    Why do you not accept my word that the clock will do what's required.
    Sub metering and tenant billing is one of the areas that specialise in and if you are billing got oil, you have to measure the amount of oil actually being used. Run time won't do it. You have to Meter the oil being used


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    #27
    Wearb
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,238 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wearb


    ted1 wrote: »
    Sub metering and tenant billing is one of the areas that specialise in and if you are billing got oil, you have to measure the amount of oil actually being used. Run time won't do it. You have to Meter the oil being used

    Metering oil used isn't worth twopence if the meter is not calibrated and sealed by weights and measures.

    Did I not explain that this was a special case and that the landlord is accommodating tenants that would not ordinarily be looked after in private accommodation. He is not going to rip them off and the billing procedures will be agreed by all parties.

    Besides all of the above, why have you got a problem with accepting that I have already stated that my problem regarding this is solved; thanks to the replies I have received here.

    Please follow site and charter rules. "Resistance is futile"



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    #28
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,370 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Wearb wrote: »
    Metering oil used isn't worth twopence if the meter is not calibrated and sealed by weights and measures.

    Did I not explain that this was a special case and that the landlord is accommodating tenants that would not ordinarily be looked after in private accommodation. He is not going to rip them off and the billing procedures will be agreed by all parties.

    Besides all of the above, why have you got a problem with accepting that I have already stated that my problem regarding this is solved; thanks to the replies I have received here.

    Meters are calibrated at factory level and Certs can be provided if requested.

    Your solution is flawed.


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    #29
    Billy Bunting
    Registered Users Posts: 2,842 ✭✭✭Billy Bunting


    Just get the hour counter Wearb, far easier installed JUST has accurate if you know the calculations (as I'm sure you do), its just as you say mechanical meters cannot be trusted, in fact the ones I usually remove are being removed because they pass oil without registering any amount.


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    #30
    mikeyjames9
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 700 ✭✭✭mikeyjames9


    Billy Bunting wrote: »
    Just get the hour counter Wearb, far easier installed JUST has accurate if you know the calculations (as I'm sure you do), its just as you say mechanical meters cannot be trusted, in fact the ones I usually remove are being removed because they pass oil without registering any amount.

    flow meters are not reliable then?


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    #31
    Billy Bunting
    Registered Users Posts: 2,842 ✭✭✭Billy Bunting


    No, not when not working correctly, and how would you know unless regular calibration


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