Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Assigned Certifier Quotes for New Build

Options
  • 19-05-2014 3:13pm
    #1
    The Gambler 101
    Registered Users Posts: 265 ✭✭


    I have recently been grant Planning for a new build and want to get started in the next few months. I see there is a lot of uncertainty in the industry with the extra costs per these new regulations.

    I'm interested to see if anyone has received any quotes from an Assigned Certifier for the development of their build. At the moment, I have a few quotes ranging from €7k-€15k, but none seem to be able to put an exact figure on the total cost.

    Apologies, if there is another thread with this information.


«13

Comments

  • Options
    #2
    DOCARCH
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,800 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    Have you a Design Certifier? Or...are the quotes you have to act as both Design and Assigned Certifier?


  • Options
    #3
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,673 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Was talking to a home owner in Dublin City the other day. About to start a large house extension and he has been quoted between 4.5 & 8k.

    The cheaper being a consulting engineer, which IMO seems to be good value considering he will be getting, inspection, structural design and certification.


  • Options
    #4
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,761 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    So much for Bully Phil's 1k.....

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • Options
    #5
    The Gambler 101
    Registered Users Posts: 265 ✭✭The Gambler 101


    Quotes are to act as both.


  • Options
    #6
    Casbra
    Registered Users Posts: 2 ✭Casbra


    Ensure you do your research before you look for quotes. If you already have a design team in place then you will just require to appoint assigned certifier and Design certifier (assuming you have also appointed PSDP and PSCS). Just know what you want so you can compare apples with apples.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    shane6977
    Registered Users Posts: 165 ✭✭shane6977


    There is an ad on donedeal.ie at the moment offering assigned certifier service for €100!

    Seems to be an RIAI registered practice, not sure if it's for real or not at that price!

    Not going to post a link as I think it may be against forum rules.


  • Options
    #8
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,249 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    shane6977 wrote: »
    There is an ad on donedeal.ie at the moment offering assigned certifier service for €100!

    Seems to be an RIAI registered practice, not sure if it's for real or not at that price!

    Not going to post a link as I think it may be against forum rules.

    you dont have to, just search "assigned" in teh main section...

    this is simply an advertisement.
    have you seen his other ad which says he'll apply for planing permission for €95 :D .... and has
    100% success rate since 2005

    seeing as the newspaper notice will cost €50ish and the planning application fee is €65.. he appears to be doing it at his own cost..

    LOL this is a laughable attempt to advertise... nothing more.

    i would also be very wary of an architects office where theres no landline number, nor no address listed... no previous work shown ;)

    if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck........


  • Options
    #9
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,761 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    you dont have to, just search "assigned" in teh main section...

    this is simply an advertisement.
    have you seen his other ad which says he'll apply for planing permission for €95 :D .... and has

    seeing as the newspaper notice will cost €50ish and the planning application fee is €65.. he appears to be doing it at his own cost..

    LOL this is a laughable attempt to advertise... nothing more.

    i would also be very wary of an architects office where theres no landline number, nor no address listed... no previous work shown ;)

    if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck........

    I just looked it up - it doesn't say anything In that ad about a Certification for €100.

    And I would not attach any credence to the lack of a land line number to anything. To do so would belie the fact that many people now only use a mobile number.

    By all means do research and do get references and follow them up.

    I mean no-one here uses their real name or id either....

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • Options
    #10
    4Sticks
    Registered Users Posts: 1,155 ✭✭✭4Sticks


    Building Regulations Application
    78. Deputy Marcella Corcoran Kennedy Information on Marcella Corcoran Kennedy Zoom on Marcella Corcoran Kennedy asked the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government Information on Phil Hogan Zoom on Phil Hogan in view of the new building regulations the measures in place to regulate the professional fees of engineers retained by persons in the course of constructing their own homes; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [24021/14]

    Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government (Deputy Phil Hogan): Information on Phil Hogan Zoom on Phil Hogan The costs of construction activity and related professional services are determined by market forces and I am precluded by trade and competition law from introducing any measures which would interfere with the normal functioning of the market in that regard.

    A number of cases have, however, been brought to my attention whereby consumers have been quoted exorbitant charges for professional services in relation to residential construction projects. I am concerned to ensure that in such cases the introduction of the new regulations is not exploited entirely inappropriately to quote for excessive services. While the new regulations will support improved competence and professionalism, which will provide additional work opportunities for competent practitioners and construction professionals, homeowners should not have to pay an inflated rate for excessive inspection services. In this regard, I have asked my Department as a matter of urgency in conjunction with the Housing Agency and the construction professional bodies, to prepare guidance on an appropriate inspection plan for a single, stand-alone dwelling. This will inform the market in relation to offering realistic and appropriately priced professional services for such work. I understand that the construction professional bodies are already well advanced in terms of providing similar guidance on this and other matters relevant to the new arrangements for building control. I have asked my Department to keep the issue under close and continuing review.

    source


  • Options
    #11
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,761 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    Quote in Galway this week for certifier fees for 2800 sq ft house: €9,000 excluding VAT.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,249 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    galwaytt wrote: »
    Quote in Galway this week for certifier fees for 2800 sq ft house: €9,000 excluding VAT.

    That would appear to be about the norm at the moment.


  • Options
    #13
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,249 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    galwaytt wrote: »
    Quote in Galway this week for certifier fees for 2800 sq ft house: €9,000 excluding VAT.

    That would appear to be about the norm at the moment.


  • Options
    #14
    Drift
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,395 ✭✭✭Drift


    galwaytt wrote: »
    Quote in Galway this week for certifier fees for 2800 sq ft house: €9,000 excluding VAT.

    Interested to know what's included and more importantly what isn't included in the quote galwaytt?

    Is this exclusively to act as an Assigned Certifier or are some design/project management/tendering services included?


  • Options
    #15
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,249 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Drift wrote: »
    Interested to know what's included and more importantly what isn't included in the quote galwaytt?

    Is this exclusively to act as an Assigned Certifier or are some design/project management/tendering services included?

    in the interest of clarity, i think only assigned certifer AND design certifier quotes should be posted.

    if theres additional services, that should be declared


  • Options
    #16
    Drift
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,395 ✭✭✭Drift


    I think it will be fairly rare to find the Assigned Certifier role being taken up by someone who is providing no other services. I'd imagine in many cases, particularly for one off house projects, they will be a designer (or have design input) as well.

    Personally I wouldn't enjoy taking on the risk associated with being an AC without some level of design input.


  • Options
    #17
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,249 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Drift wrote: »
    I think it will be fairly rare to find the Assigned Certifier role being taken up by someone who is providing no other services. I'd imagine in many cases, particularly for one off house projects, they will be a designer (or have design input) as well.

    Personally I wouldn't enjoy taking on the risk associated with being an AC without some level of design input.

    assigned certifier and design certifier will, in the vast majority of cases, go hand in hand, thus what i stated above.
    I can see eventually this engagement being simply referred to as 'the certifier' role.

    there is a large market out there who will only pay for the minimum statutory requirement, so in the main, i think DS and AS quotations wil be comparable.


  • Options
    #18
    Drift
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,395 ✭✭✭Drift


    Hope the following is not too far Off-Topic. If it is mods please move/delete as appropriate:


    I hope there won't be too many Assigned Certifiers confident to provide the minimum (i.e. sign any bit of paper they're paid to). If there are people doing same they will be doing the more diligent professionals out of business (just as they have been up until now with the "old" regime.)

    One of the trickiest things I can see is the interaction between design and assigned certifiers. At what point does the assigned certifier's responsibility stop and the design certifier's start.


    To give an example:
    If a Design Certifier certifies that his/her design is compliant and when the project is on site the Assigned Certifier sees that it is not compliant based on his or her own knowledge what does the AC do?

    1. The diligent AC goes back to the DC and they thrash out a solution. Time and effort is expended all-round but the solution is good albeit more costly for the client.

    2.The not so diligent AC says "It's not my problem - the DC has signed a cert to say it's compliant." Cheaper for the client in the short term but what happens when everyone ends up in court 6 years down the line. There's no way, in my opinion, that the AC won't be found partially to blame.


  • Options
    #19
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,249 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    to be honest, at most levels including residential... the DS will also be the AS.

    i cannot think of any regular circumstances where there will be a separation of both, and at this stage lets differentiate between a "planning" designer and the Design certifier role.... i think there will eb many cases where the planning designer will not be providing certification services.

    I would agree that id be very slow to assume the As responsibilities if i wasnt the DS.


  • Options
    #20
    Drift
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,395 ✭✭✭Drift


    Structural items such as Hollowcore and Prefabricated Trusses will need separate design ancilliary certification although to be fair I've never had problems getting design certification from manufacturers for these items.

    Precast and or pre-stressed lintels made by Timmy Johnny down the road should have some form of design certification or certified load tables too!!!

    They way I was seeing it is that there would rarely be a project with only one Design Certifier.


    P.S.:
    On the larger projects with multi-part design teams I actually don't see as much of an issue because the management will be better:

    There will be multiple design ancilliary certifiers:
    Architect
    Structural Engineer
    M&E Engineer
    Specialist Designers such as truss manufacturers, highway/traffic engineers, acoustic consultants


    Edit: Post corrected for future generations with strikethroughs as per Syd's post below.


  • Options
    #21
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,249 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Drift wrote: »
    Structural items such as Hollowcore and Prefabricated Trusses will need separate design certification although to be fair I've never had problems getting design certification from manufacturers for these items.

    Precast and or pre-stressed lintels made by Timmy Johnny down the road should have some form of design certification or certified load tables too!!!

    those are all "ancillary certification" that you are referring to.

    they are not fulfilling the responsibility of "design certifier"


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #22
    MizMix
    Registered Users Posts: 313 ✭✭MizMix


    Pre new regulations we had agreed a fixed fee with our architect. Planning dragged on and on and just came through- so we have agreed an additional 3k for him to cover all additional certification responsibilities (AS and DS). We're very happy with that fee and it seems on the lower end of the scale?


  • Options
    #23
    Drift
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,395 ✭✭✭Drift


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    those are all "ancillary certification" that you are referring to.

    they are not fulfilling the responsibility of "design certifier"

    Apologies Syd - Yes I was mixing up the Ancilliary and Design Certifiers completely!!!

    Much like that old television programme when it comes to Design Certifiers ... "There can only be one"


  • Options
    #24
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,249 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Drift wrote: »
    Apologies Syd - Yes I was mixing up the Ancilliary and Design Certifiers completely!!!

    no probs...

    its interesting to note that the responsibility to collate and submit the "ancillary certification" is actually that of the design certifier, not the assigned certifier.
    so the design certifiers role does not stop at commencement stage.


  • Options
    #25
    Drift
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,395 ✭✭✭Drift


    Does the DC have to be a member of the Holy Trinity?

    If not I can see a set-up evolving where the planning permission agent wants to take the role of Design Certifier after receipt of planning and just employ an Assigned Certifier for the bare minimum .... this is the type of situation that would worry me if acting as the Assigned Certifier.


  • Options
    #26
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,249 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    MizMix wrote: »
    Pre new regulations we had agreed a fixed fee with our architect. Planning dragged on and on and just came through- so we have agreed an additional 3k for him to cover all additional certification responsibilities (AS and DS). We're very happy with that fee and it seems on the lower end of the scale?

    if you had agreed some kind of a post planning 'inspection / supervision' engagement with your architect then they would have been including for some of the required services already.

    much of the reason for the introduction of these regs was the fact that some builders / developers/ self builders were not engaging any professional at all to ensure compliance with building regulations.


  • Options
    #27
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,249 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Drift wrote: »
    1. Does the DC have to be a member of the Holy Trinity?

    If not I can see a set-up evolving where the planning permission agent wants to take the role of Design Certifier after receipt of planning and just employ an Assigned Certifier for the bare minimum .... this is the type of situation that would worry me if acting as the Assigned Certifier.

    1. yes, the design certifier must be one of the holy 3.

    another example of why the exclusion of architectural technologists was an abomination.


  • Options
    #28
    Drift
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,395 ✭✭✭Drift


    MizMix wrote: »
    Pre new regulations we had agreed a fixed fee with our architect. Planning dragged on and on and just came through- so we have agreed an additional 3k for him to cover all additional certification responsibilities (AS and DS). We're very happy with that fee and it seems on the lower end of the scale?

    What Syd said is spot on. If he was already going to be supervising construction correctly then the Assigned Certifier role just formalises a lot of what a good Architect would have been doing anyway.

    It does add a lot of extra paperwork and hassle though so the extra 3k sounds fairly reasonable for that.


  • Options
    #29
    Drift
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,395 ✭✭✭Drift


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    1. yes, the design certifier must be one of the holy 3.

    Then as you said above there is VERY LITTLE reason to distinguish between the two and to the lay-person it would be easier to understand if there was just a single "Certifier" role.


  • Options
    #30
    MizMix
    Registered Users Posts: 313 ✭✭MizMix


    We first engaged with him when business was very very bad in the sector and I bargained him down well below an 'average' arch fee. I don't suspect he was cutting corners but quite simply with all the additional admin of these new regulations it wouldn't have been feasible for him without charging the additional 3k. Overall we're happy. Just worried when we go to tender contractors will also be charging an additional amount- i.e. to capitalise on less/no self builds and to cover any additional admin and liability they will now have


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #31
    Drift
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,395 ✭✭✭Drift


    MizMix wrote: »
    Just worried when we go to tender contractors will also be charging an additional amount- i.e. to capitalise on less/no self builds and to cover any additional admin and liability they will now have

    They will. Definitely.

    To be fair I don't think I'd begrudge it to them.


Advertisement