Fair rate for grinds?

JDD10 · 24-01-2014 11:43pm #1

Hi,

I am considering starting to give grinds, what would a fair rate be, for a fully qualified teacher currently teaching?

How much would you charge one to one?
How much for two students per hour?

Razorfish · 25-01-2014 12:46am

Average €35/hr. I charge €40 per hour. For two students I would charge €20 each. Also depends on the subject and demand.

allthedoyles · 25-01-2014 12:53am

In 2010 we were asked €45 per hour - Maths for Leaving Cert , - challenged this and teacher agreed to €35 p/h on condition student attends once a week for Jan-Apr .

gaeilgebeo · 25-01-2014 1:05am

I would charge €30 per hour per student whether it's one to one or 5 in a group.

This covers as my professional fee :

* my time
* my expenses
* photocopying
* preparation time
* my years of experience
* corrections done outside the hour

An Bradán Feasa · 25-01-2014 11:04am

gaeilgebeo wrote: »

I would charge €30 per hour per student whether it's one to one or 5 in a group.

This covers as my professional fee :

* my time
* my expenses
* photocopying
* preparation time
* my years of experience
* corrections done outside the hour

Just so I'm clear - you could end up with €150 for a one-hour grind (with your additional preparatory work in mind)? Nice!

Arbiter of Good Taste · 25-01-2014 11:10am

gaeilgebeo wrote: »

I would charge €30 per hour per student whether it's one to one or 5 in a group.

This covers as my professional fee :

* my time
* my expenses
* photocopying
* preparation time
* my years of experience
* corrections done outside the hour

Are you saying a student in a group of five gets exactly the same level of personal attention as a one to one?

gaeilgebeo · 25-01-2014 11:57am

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

Are you saying a student in a group of five gets exactly the same level of personal attention as a one to one?

Nowhere did I say that?

I was making a point that I charge €30 per student whatever the circumstance.

For higher level Leaving Cert Irish grinds, the students I see want good, concise notes for the written and oral part of the exam.
They want me to go through these notes, give sample answers and explain the marking scheme as well as exam technique.
It is quite easy to do this in a group setting ( be it a group of two or five).
It was never an issue with students or parents to have grinds in a small group.
I physically did not have the hours/time to do individual grinds so I took most in groups of two or sometimes three.
I took the odd individual grind depending on the circumstance/needs of the student.

I do not understand why we as a profession have to make constant justifications of what we charge! We wouldn't hear a doctor or dentist do it.

I no longer give grinds but when I did, I charged €30 and make no apologies for it.

gctest50 · 25-01-2014 12:18pm

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

Are you saying a student in a group of five gets exactly the same level of personal attention as a one to one?

That could work even better at times - a student may ask a question one of the others didn't remember to ask/think of asking ?

CramCycle · 25-01-2014 12:19pm

I used to charge 25 per hour but was undercharging. The biology ones, I even took in students who were learning outside of school and gave them practicals in my work place. I think 30 per hour if more than one student and 40-50 per hour for individual depending on the level of notes, outside work (correction, preparation, etc.) and background you give is fair.

Crazyteacher · 25-01-2014 1:26pm

Where you insured though to take students in to your work place?

CramCycle · 25-01-2014 1:44pm

Crazyteacher wrote: »

Where you insured though to take students in to your work place?

Yes I was, I worked in an educational institution and permission was given from the institution.

Arbiter of Good Taste · 25-01-2014 1:49pm

gaeilgebeo wrote: »

I do not understand why we as a profession have to make constant justifications of what we charge! We wouldn't hear a doctor or dentist do it.

No one is asking you to justify what you charge, but surely it's reasonable to expect a better level of service for a one to one than a group scenario whatever the situation.

For example, I take a Pilates class. I can pay €20 for a group class or pay €100 for a one to one. I don't expect to get the full attention of the instructor in the class, and thus I pay the lower amount.

LOL at the doctor/dentist reference. Apart from the fact that there is absolutely no correlation, people are always complaining about medical costs.

jeepers101 · 25-01-2014 1:50pm

If you were declaring the income you wouldn't be charging so little. 50/hr minimum seems fair to me.

rainbowtrout · 25-01-2014 2:08pm

jeepers101 wrote: »

If you were declaring the income you wouldn't be charging so little. 50/hr minimum seems fair to me.

It also depends on the part of the country you are in. Just from word of mouth grinds seem to cost more in Dublin than in the west. Grinds in the north west around my area would typically be €25-30 per hour.

thesimpsons · 25-01-2014 7:41pm

midwest area hons lc maths, hons physics or hons applied maths 30e for 90 minutes. small class of 2/3 students.

Il Trap · 25-01-2014 7:44pm

For a single student by themselves I could never bring myself to charge more than €25 an hour. Its a fair and reasonable amount in my opinion.

Powerhouse · 25-01-2014 10:00pm

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

No one is asking you to justify what you charge, but surely it's reasonable to expect a better level of service for a one to one than a group scenario whatever the situation.

For example, I take a Pilates class. I can pay €20 for a group class or pay €100 for a one to one. I don't expect to get the full attention of the instructor in the class, and thus I pay the lower amount.

LOL at the doctor/dentist reference. Apart from the fact that there is absolutely no correlation, people are always complaining about medical costs.

With respect, by making comparisons with your Pilates classes and 'LOLLing' about Doctors/Dentists' charges you are at least implicity asking the poster to justify what they charge. If you feel they don't have to justify it then there's no need to be discussing it at all surely? Can they not charge what they like and let the market decide and not have it debated as if it can be objectively assessed?

Powerhouse · 25-01-2014 10:11pm

I charged €25 an hour for a grind last year for an LC Honours student - it was a word-of-mouth as opposed to an advertised grind so I didn't like to ask too much. But with the price of petrol and often other costs incurred e.g. incidental shopping on the way home which probably wouldn't have happened had I not been doing the grind, it wasn't worth my while. I found it tiring on top of a full-time job and wouldn't dream of doing it again for that sort of money. It's all very fine having an amount in your head which is 'fair' but the opportunity cost has to be considered too.

blatantrereg · 25-01-2014 10:16pm

I'd charge €40 per hour of my time teaching outside of Dublin. €45-€50 in Dublin. More if there were corrections to do outside of class.

PinkCat86 · 28-01-2014 3:30pm

I charge 20 euros per hour but I find parents of grinds teenagers want an even cheaper rate!

CramCycle · 28-01-2014 3:39pm

PinkCat86 wrote: »

I charge 20 euros per hour but I find parents of grinds teenagers want an even cheaper rate!

That is generally the way, and I can see the reasoning, it is expensive. The fact of the matter is that a good grinds teacher will have put alot of prep in, and that time needs to be accounted for as well. This is why lecturers generally get paid what some people consider excessive rates per hour. They never consider that for every hour I lecture I may have put in (depending on the class) 3 or 4 hours background time as well, not to mention the responding to e-mails and questions outside of the lecture time. Same with grinds, I have to keep up to date on how the course is changing, proposed changes, what is not on the syllabus anymore (you would be surprised how many students do not know). Fair enough, generally not as intense as lecturing but it is still a point. Any time I have been asked, this is what I will tell them and that unfortunately it would be a waste of my time and effort to give them any cheaper. That said I always give a little over the time paid for so people feel less cheated. Alot of parents may also have been from a cash in hand culture that if something was not declared then it was cheaper.

RealJohn · 28-01-2014 5:53pm

I don't and have never given grinds but if I was to start, I wouldn't consider doing it for less than 50 euros per hour, given that half of that will go to the government anyway.

mylady · 29-01-2014 7:05am

Does anyone have thoughts on grinds or support for students in primary level. I am thinking about offering support to primary level students but I am unsure about demand and cost.?? I have already worked as a resource teacher. .

CramCycle · 29-01-2014 8:15am

mylady wrote: »

Does anyone have thoughts on grinds or support for students in primary level. I am thinking about offering support to primary level students but I am unsure about demand and cost.?? I have already worked as a resource teacher. .

My sister gives grinds to primary students for language. She charges 20 per hour and is based in the Midlands. She knows the family though, hence, I imagine the lower rate. She claims she has heard of other students from other teachers but she still only has two so what that proves is beyond me. No harm to offer the service if you have the ability and time but I imagine grinds at that age are to prepare a student for 2nd level or have them ahead of the game rather than for any primary material.

spurious · 29-01-2014 9:19am

RealJohn wrote: »

I don't and have never given grinds but if I was to start, I wouldn't consider doing it for less than 50 euros per hour, given that half of that will go to the government anyway.

I agree.
If they want a qualified, experienced teacher then they can pay.
If they want someone who 'was good at Maths' in their Leaving, then they can pay 10-20 euro an hour.

sawdoubters · 29-01-2014 9:23am

whats the compertition charge

what can the client afford

Powerhouse · 29-01-2014 11:42am

sawdoubters wrote: »

whats the compertition charge

what can the client afford

Funnily enough I am not sure how relevant either of these is for many people. It's not a perfect competition situation where people are banging out burgers on a street corner.

You could have the proverbial 'Trinity student' who's studying Engineering and feels qualified to give LC grinds in everything (and has the LC notes to back it up) etc. for whom €20 an hour is great because his overheads and preparation amount to squat. These are regular presences on noticeboards in supermarkets in my experience and to compete with them on price would be folly.

You'll also have the teacher on a few hours who consequently has more time for grinds and can do several to make some income and as such can maybe keep prices down to generate more business.

Then you'll have someone on full hours - who might still do with the money - but for whom doing a grind is tiring, is far more of a sacrifice in time and effort especially if they have a family, and have many other things calling on their time. Expecting them to compete with a €20 an hour merchant is unrealistic.

That's leaving aside the fact that many grinds are word-of-mouth and it's not always transparent against whom you are 'competing' and what they charge.

As for 'what the client can afford' - let's be honest they can either afford the rate you are prepared to work for or they can't. When I go in to buy petrol they don't ask me what I can afford to pay. Obviously at a certain level there is a broad market price but it quickly becomes not worth it if someone tries to bargain you down.

acequion · 29-01-2014 6:42pm

I,personally don't give grinds,but I've heard that the going rate in my area is €30,down from €35-€40 during the boom years. €30 seems fair enough to me.The student is paying for a teacher's time and expertise, which, like everything, has a price.The price should reflect the value of the service, so giving grinds for €20 or €25 euro is just another example of teachers selling themselves short.

teacherhead · 29-01-2014 7:48pm

There are two types of kids who get grinds in my experience. The kid who rally works hard and wants that little bit extra to get over the line and the kid who pisses around for two years and thinks s grind will fix it.

for the latter id say 50€ and tell mammy that johnny better produce the work or shed wasting her money - i have gotten good results this way as the parent is suddenly very interested in how much work the kid does.

for the former i tend to be about 40 because there's a willingness to do work and they are actually easier to engage.

Mr Boom Boom · 29-01-2014 9:14pm

gaeilgebeo wrote: »

I would charge €30 per hour per student whether it's one to one or 5 in a group.

This covers as my professional fee :

* my time
* my expenses
* photocopying
* preparation time
* my years of experience
* corrections done outside the hour

Do you pay PRSI, USC as well as PAYE on this ?

gaeilgebeo · 29-01-2014 9:45pm

Mr Boom Boom wrote: »

Do you pay PRSI, USC as well as PAYE on this ?

All of the above, why?

Fair rate for grinds?

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