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Handicap setting when joining a club

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  • 26-08-2013 10:01pm
    #1
    shane0007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,677 ✭✭✭


    PhlegmyMoses wrote: »
    Handing in my cards for a handicap now, reckon I'll be given around 24/25.
    Don't be surprised if you get a first handicap of 18. Most clubs give a maximum first handicap of 18 & then you can slowly work back to a maximum of 24 for men.
    I could be wrong but the few clubs I have been a member of over the years operated this way.


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    #2
    Rikand
    Registered Users Posts: 20,350 ✭✭✭✭Rikand


    shane0007 wrote: »
    Don't be surprised if you get a first handicap of 18. Most clubs give a maximum first handicap of 18 & then you can slowly work back to a maximum of 24 for men.
    I could be wrong but the few clubs I have been a member of over the years operated this way.

    In general this is correct unless the scores are exceptionally high.

    Also, the maximum is 28 for men :)


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    #3
    shane0007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,677 ✭✭✭shane0007


    Rickylovesuall wrote: »
    Also, the maximum is 28 for men :)

    Sorry, yes of course the highest for men is 28. My club max is 24. Sorry, forgot about the 28.


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    #4
    PhlegmyMoses
    Registered Users Posts: 11,906 ✭✭✭✭PhlegmyMoses


    I really hope I don't get given an 18 handicap. No chance I could play to that. Reckon 24/25 is my level for now. Gonna try get out for my first comp this Saturday if I get my handicap in time.


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    #5
    spacecoyote
    Registered Users Posts: 8,489 ✭✭✭spacecoyote


    PhlegmyMoses wrote: »
    I really hope I don't get given an 18 handicap. No chance I could play to that. Reckon 24/25 is my level for now. Gonna try get out for my first comp this Saturday if I get my handicap in time.

    Pretty sure I handed in a 98 & a couple of mid 100s rounds & was given 22 so I guess it depends on the club


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    #6
    alxmorgan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,824 ✭✭✭alxmorgan


    spacecoyote wrote: »
    Pretty sure I handed in a 98 & a couple of mid 100s rounds & was given 22 so I guess it depends on the club

    Handed in 108, 110, 113 with just consistent bad play as opposed to a few blow-ups and got 18


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    #7
    BigChap1759
    Registered Users Posts: 1,608 ✭✭✭BigChap1759


    shane0007 wrote: »
    Don't be surprised if you get a first handicap of 18. Most clubs give a maximum first handicap of 18 & then you can slowly work back to a maximum of 24 for men.
    I could be wrong but the few clubs I have been a member of over the years operated this way.

    Sorry for the off topic rant but I have to say this is just totally wrong - if clubs are doing this then they should be reported to CONGU IMO. What is the point of having a handicapping system to then offer a maximum of 18?!?

    It does not make any sense at all


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    #8
    shane0007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,677 ✭✭✭shane0007


    It stops unknown bandits coming into the club without history. Somebody who is really a 16 handicapper puts in all 100's & gets a 28. He'd be a long time coming down to his true 16 & taking a lot of prizes along the way.
    Most people prefer to be as low as possible but there is always the few that play for the prizes any which way they can!


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    #9
    BigChap1759
    Registered Users Posts: 1,608 ✭✭✭BigChap1759


    shane0007 wrote: »
    It stops unknown bandits coming into the club without history. Somebody who is really a 16 handicapper puts in all 100's & gets a 28. He'd be a long time coming down to his true 16 & taking a lot of prizes along the way.
    Most people prefer to be as low as possible but there is always the few that play for the prizes any which way they can!

    So you discriminate against all golfers who are genuinely >18 handicap in case the above happens......sounds very fair :rolleyes:


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    #10
    scrubber72
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,215 ✭✭✭scrubber72


    I personally know a guy who left one club in galway when he had a handicap of 15. Joined another one and put in 3 cards after his handicap lapsed. Got 25. He is capable of playing of 10. He will not play in any comps that will affect his handicap such as non gui affiliated ones, back on topic i can't hit it out of my at the mo. And when i can its likely to go oob.


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    #11
    shane0007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,677 ✭✭✭shane0007


    BigChap1759 wrote: »
    So you discriminate against all golfers who are genuinely >18 handicap in case the above happens......sounds very fair :rolleyes:

    It's not me discriminating, that's just most club rules. I'm just a member that accepts & plays by club rules. If you feel hard done by, you should take it up with your club committee. Majority votes generally rule so if they all feel the same as you, they will change the rule for you.


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    #12
    bustercherry
    Registered Users Posts: 1,061 ✭✭✭bustercherry


    shane0007 wrote: »
    It's not me discriminating, that's just most club rules. I'm just a member that accepts & plays by club rules. If you feel hard done by, you should take it up with your club committee. Majority votes generally rule so if they all feel the same as you, they will change the rule for you.

    I thought it was the home club’s responsibility to ensure handicaps are maintained in accordance with the rules specified by Congu/GUI?

    If that's the case then I can't see how clubs can have rules regarding this or what it has to do with the club committee.


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    #13
    shane0007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,677 ✭✭✭shane0007


    Yes but I would imagine if maximum initial handicaps vary from club to club then there is allowable tolerances.
    The club's handicap committee would therefore set accordingly but any changes to overall club rules would be set by the club committee.
    I am guessing here as I have never been on a club committee so many will know a lot more than me on the matter.
    I just have no problem accepting whatever rules the club set out for me within reason. I signed up for accept those rules in the first place & I also accepted to abide by any changes to those rules as set out by the elected committee.


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    #14
    PARlance
    Registered Users Posts: 21,112 ✭✭✭✭PARlance


    bustercherry wrote: »
    I thought it was the home club’s responsibility to ensure handicaps are maintained in accordance with the rules specified by Congu/GUI?

    If that's the case then I can't see how clubs can have rules regarding this or what it has to do with the club committee.

    Congu/Gui set guidelines around initial HCP's not rules! There are many other factors that can be considered other than the 3 cards.

    Technically you won't find a club that has a Rule that the highest HCP awarded will be 18. They might give 18 to everyone that should be above that, but I don't think you'll find it in any rule book, constitution etc.

    Not saying it's right be the way, anything within 2-3 shots leeway and I'd be happy with that. Any bigger difference and it can just demoralise a newcomer to the game.

    If the OP is shooting 103 and improving then I certainly wouldn't give 24/25. A few disaster holes in that 103 and the OP could be getting close to or above 36 points with an initial HC of 25.


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    #15
    jackal
    Registered Users Posts: 793 ✭✭✭jackal


    Maybe it depends on the club. I joined a club this year and the handicap was allocated based on 3 cards, they cap your worst score at double bogey, take your best front 9 of the three cards, and the best back 9 of the three cards and put them together to give your score. So having disasters does not really matter as much as it would in a strokeplay round, its more your scoring capability than how bad your blow ups are.

    For instance on the best front 9 if you par 3 and bogey 3 and blow up on 3, you are going to be +9. (3*bogey, 3*double).
    And on your best back 9 you have 3 blow ups and 6 bogeys then you will be +12. Giving you a handicap of 21.

    I was given 22 with similar scores in the 100-110 range.

    You could have 3 fairly shocking rounds but still produce a fairly reasonable front and back on different rounds.


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    #16
    spacecoyote
    Registered Users Posts: 8,489 ✭✭✭spacecoyote


    yeah thats loosely my understanding, they treat your rounds like one by an 18 handicap, and anything outside of a net double is rounded down to a net double.

    Not sure on the exact ins and outs


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    #17
    bustercherry
    Registered Users Posts: 1,061 ✭✭✭bustercherry


    ajcurry123 wrote: »
    Congu/Gui set guidelines around initial HCP's not rules!

    Where did I say that they did?

    They set guidelines around calculating initial handicaps but all affiliated clubs administrating handicaps have responsibility to ensure that handicaps are maintained in accordance with the rules laid down by CONGU/GUI. Further the following rules from the CONGU manual states,

    6.2 Ensure that the spirit and intent of the UHS is properly applied in the club. Failure by a club to comply with this requirement may lead to a Union withdrawing the club’s right to act as a Handicapping Authority or imposing such conditions as the Union considers appropriate.
    6.4 Ensure that all handicaps are calculated in accordance with the UHS and issue,when requested, Handicap Certificates, which are required to specify a CONGU®Handicap thereon.

    I can't see how any club could have a rule in their constitution preventing someone from from getting higher than 18 without being in direct conflict with the above.


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    #18
    OilBeefHooked2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 836 ✭✭✭OilBeefHooked2


    Lets be honest though, any reasonably fit and healthy male doesn't need more than 1 shot a hole.


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    #19
    PARlance
    Registered Users Posts: 21,112 ✭✭✭✭PARlance


    bustercherry wrote: »

    Where did I say that they did?

    They set guidelines around calculating initial handicaps but all affiliated clubs administrating handicaps have responsibility to ensure that handicaps are maintained in accordance with the rules laid down by CONGU/GUI. Further the following rules from the CONGU manual states,

    6.2 Ensure that the spirit and intent of the UHS is properly applied in the club. Failure by a club to comply with this requirement may lead to a Union withdrawing the club’s right to act as a Handicapping Authority or imposing such conditions as the Union considers appropriate.
    6.4 Ensure that all handicaps are calculated in accordance with the UHS and issue,when requested, Handicap Certificates, which are required to specify a CONGU®Handicap thereon.

    I can't see how any club could have a rule in their constitution preventing someone from from getting higher than 18 without being in direct conflict with the above.

    Fixed that (you need to end a persons quote)

    I didn't say you said anything. There was a lot of talk about "rules" that in fact are only guidelines


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    #20
    Felexicon
    Registered Users Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭Felexicon


    I just joined a club a few months ago (only playing about a month at the time). Handed in 3 cards all in the 110 range. Got a handicap of 22 from them which, while I find it difficult to play to is fair enough.

    There would be no point in me entering any comps if they had given me 18 or below as I feel miles away from playing to that level.


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    #21
    Danny dyers double
    Registered Users Posts: 381 ✭✭Danny dyers double


    david-k wrote: »
    Lets be honest though, any reasonably fit and healthy male doesn't need more than 1 shot a hole.
    Im a fit and healthy male and i would need more then 1 shot a hole


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    #22
    OilBeefHooked2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 836 ✭✭✭OilBeefHooked2


    Danny dyers double wrote: »
    Im a fit and healthy male and i would need more then 1 shot a hole
    You only think that, you don't really though, it just acts like a crutch and holds you back.


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    #23
    PhlegmyMoses
    Registered Users Posts: 11,906 ✭✭✭✭PhlegmyMoses


    This is a ludicrous statement David K. As an absolute noob, I'd really struggle to play to an 18 handicap. Nothing to do with being fit or healthy, more to do with skill level, understanding how the game is played and how much time you can devote to the game. I'd like to think that in a year or two I'd be around that level, and I suspect that I will be, but sweeping statements like that are unhelpful and unenlightened.


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    #24
    OilBeefHooked2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 836 ✭✭✭OilBeefHooked2


    PhlegmyMoses wrote: »
    This is a ludicrous statement David K. As an absolute noob, I'd really struggle to play to an 18 handicap. Nothing to do with being fit or healthy, more to do with skill level, understanding how the game is played and how much time you can devote to the game. I'd like to think that in a year or two I'd be around that level, and I suspect that I will be, but sweeping statements like that are unhelpful and unenlightened.
    Case in point, beginners get too hung up on handicaps and forget to play golf, forget about handicaps altogether and just play golf and let the chips fall as they may.


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    #25
    ForeRight
    Registered Users Posts: 3,695 ✭✭✭ForeRight


    david-k wrote: »
    Lets be honest though, any reasonably fit and healthy male doesn't need more than 1 shot a hole.



    Fair play being naturally gifted at golf.
    Do you give lessons?


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    #26
    Myksyk
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 3,550 Mod ✭✭✭✭Myksyk


    CONGU set guidelines instructing that the H/C committee take the 'best' of the three cards handed in as a reference point, not an amalgamation of them (everything above double bogey reduced to DB) and take any other factors they feel are relevant into account (player history, previous handicap, knowledge from peers, society handicaps etc). Committees do generally err on the side of caution as the cards handed in are certainly open to 'massaging'. We don't have a limit of 18 but we have been stung giving guys 20+ handicaps in the past.


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    #27
    Miley Byrne
    Registered Users Posts: 1,380 ✭✭✭Miley Byrne


    ForeRight wrote: »
    Fair play being naturally gifted at golf.
    Do you give lessons?

    I agree with him though. A young, reasonably fit young male should find their own level when the start off an 18 h/c. They might get five .1s and find themselves off 19. So be it. I would prefer to see someone new to golf creeping up before getting cut than having a huge cut after getting a 24 handicap starting off.

    If you play enough golf you will find the level that you are capable of playing to eventually. It's fair that clubs will err on the side of caution with new handicaps.


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    #28
    ssbob
    Registered Users Posts: 2,736 ✭✭✭ssbob


    denisoc16 wrote: »
    I agree with him though. A young, reasonably fit young male should find their own level when the start off an 18 h/c. They might get five .1s and find themselves off 19. So be it. I would prefer to see someone new to golf creeping up before getting cut than having a huge cut after getting a 24 handicap starting off.

    If you play enough golf you will find the level that you are capable of playing to eventually. It's fair that clubs will err on the side of caution with new handicaps.

    This isn't what he said though, I can understand a club erring on the side of caution but that doesn't mean every fit and healthy golfer can play to an 18 handicap, I wish I could, but circumstances have it that I play off 23(22.9) after having started at 20.0 about 2 and a half years ago.

    Maybe if I had more time to practice then I could play to 18 but I play regularly enough....


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    #29
    BigChap1759
    Registered Users Posts: 1,608 ✭✭✭BigChap1759


    david-k wrote: »
    Case in point, beginners get too hung up on handicaps and forget to play golf, forget about handicaps altogether and just play golf and let the chips fall as they may.

    Absolute nonsense - how would you feel if you got a 4/5 shot cut in the annual review so as to make you completely uncompetitive. There is erring on the side of caution and then there is just stupidity if any clubs actually have a policy of handing out 18 as a maximum


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    #30
    BigChap1759
    Registered Users Posts: 1,608 ✭✭✭BigChap1759


    david-k wrote: »
    Lets be honest though, any reasonably fit and healthy male doesn't need more than 1 shot a hole.

    Is this deliberate trolling??


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    #31
    Miley Byrne
    Registered Users Posts: 1,380 ✭✭✭Miley Byrne


    ssbob wrote: »
    This isn't what he said though, I can understand a club erring on the side of caution but that doesn't mean every fit and healthy golfer can play to an 18 handicap, I wish I could, but circumstances have it that I play off 23(22.9) after having started at 20.0 about 2 and a half years ago.

    Maybe if I had more time to practice then I could play to 18 but I play regularly enough....

    Yes, but I would argue that if someone can play to a handicap of 23 with little or no practice then with practice, determination etc it should be acheivable to get the neccessary cuts to get down to 18 or lower. Someone who gets 18 from day one HAS to work hard in order to keep it from growing (in an ideal world, not taking into account handicap builders obviously). But someone who gets 23 won't have to work as hard as they will have more shots to play with.

    In essence, by getting 18 starting off it will put the onus on you to put in the work to play to it. You might be uncompetitive for a while but by working on the short game etc then the results will come. If the work isn't put in then the .1s will follow.

    Why do people who have just taken up the game assume they should be competitive straight away. It makes sense that you should have to work at anything to improve and get competitive.

    Slightly off topic but: Example - if you play 1 game per week. Take that as 4 hours per week. Then I would suggest sacrificing one game per month in exchange for three 1 hour sessions on the chipping/putting green. Mightn't be as much fun but your handicap WILL drop.


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