Channel 4 Dispatches Investigation on Ryanair August 12th at 20:00

Musicman2000 · 06-08-2013 9:51pm #1

Just a heads up Channel fours dispatches are investigating Ryanair on next Mondays show at 20:00. Something to do with flying on low fuel

keith16 · 06-08-2013 9:57pm

Probably sensationalist nonsense.

Roblestone · 06-08-2013 10:01pm

Is it a repeat? I think that might already be on YouTube. They went undercover and did the cabin crew training a while ago.

donkey balls · 06-08-2013 10:42pm

This low fuel is a load of crap happen to know people working for both EI and FR and they both land with the same amount of fuel.

Peregrine · 06-08-2013 11:12pm

Like Keith said, it'll be the usual sensationalist crap you'd read on the Daily Mail in video.

LeftBase · 06-08-2013 11:13pm

Almost all short haul carriers in Europe will land with alternate, holding fuel and reserves + 5% of Trip fuel everything going to plan. In a case where you have to hold and then divert when you can hold no longer you will be landing pretty light, but legal...that's how everyone does it more or less. The thing for Captains to remember is that they must make a clear decision early to avoid getting caught out like the Valencia aircraft did.

ek9er · 11-08-2013 8:41pm

Guys, this should be quite good. I'm hoping the journalist learned from his mistakes with mol a few years ago. Our ryanair pilot group has also been involved and has released internal ballot results regarding safety issues and a rather threatening memo from the chief pilot. If you have a minute to spare check out the facebook page https://www.facebook.com/ryanairpilotgroup2013 or the website https://www.ryanairpilotgroup.com. The facebook page was shut down but is now back with more members, the bigger the better to spread to word

aramush · 11-08-2013 9:50pm

Any airline that has a quality safety record (and long may it last), good on time records that can get me from one part of Europe to another for 20euro deserves praise. Play by their rules and you have a fantastic resource at your disposal

scudzilla · 11-08-2013 9:54pm

aramush wrote: »

Any airline that has a quality safety record (and long may it last), good on time records that can get me from one part of Europe to another for 20euro deserves praise. Play by their rules and you have a fantastic resource at your disposal

In all fairness there's very few routes, if any, that you can travel on for 20quid now

Popoutman · 12-08-2013 2:20am

aramush wrote: »

good on time records

From what I have seen on routes that are similar to other carriers, Ryanair tend to pad their schedule by 5-15 minutes, such that normal flights that are not particularly early come in under the scheduled time.

Another was of putting it - the expected travel time for a route might be 2h45 after takeoff. Ryanair will show a scheduled flight arrival time of 2h55 after takeoff.

Clever marketing but not exactly being truthful with the scheduling.

FWVT · 12-08-2013 4:37am

Your 2hr45 flight-time is not set in stone. On any given day this could be anywhere from 2:20 to 3:10, depending on winds. Then there's the taxiing issue. A flight taking off from Dublin with easterly winds could require a extra 10 mins of taxi time to get to the holding point of R10, compared to R28.

All airlines pad their schedule to allow for all eventualities. The time stated when you're booking is NEVER the flight time. What I do have a problem with is Ryanair's fanfare on landing, claiming they've arrived on time when in fact they haven't yet arrived at all until they arrive at the gate and engage the parking brake. They know this but still try to pull the wool over the eyes of the passengers (but not of this one).

basill · 12-08-2013 9:49am

IATA have strict rules on scheduling amongst a host of other things. In an IATA member airline its not really padding. Its to cover prevailing winds and anticipated delays. Its logical to have a westbound atlantic flight with a longer block to block than an eastbound given the usual tailwind on the way home to Ireland.

Not being a member of IATA enables an airline to get creative. Hence a cancelled flight due to tech issues can miraculously appear as a new flight number departing at the same time. Or a half empty flight can be "merged" into another with a new flight number. An airline using these techniques could then demonstrate a 100% on time performance when the reality is quite different.

Also if you mess up and don't take into account a major sporting event in your pricing then you get to cancel the flights, refund the passengers and "create" new flights at or around the same departure times but increase the fares significantly.

All completely legal and above board if you are not a member of an oversight organisation that audits these sorts of things.

novarock · 12-08-2013 11:33am

Here is the trailer...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvCxWzQVn-U

Cessna_Pilot · 12-08-2013 12:07pm

Wouldn't waste my time watching this. Biased English media and anti Ryanair propaganda ****e.

donkey balls · 12-08-2013 12:24pm

novarock wrote: »

Here is the trailer...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvCxWzQVn-U

In all my time working both at DUB & STN airport I never seen a FR pilot wear a a hat or did they wear one for the program to disguise them selves,Must give my mate a call later and ask him is he wearing a hat these days. :eek:

Shamrock231 · 12-08-2013 1:10pm

They don't wear hats as part of their uniform. It's just to hide their identity.

FWVT · 12-08-2013 5:22pm

It looks like they've dailymail-ised that program to try to make something big out of something small.

Never look to the media for factual accuracy as it is their business to try to manipulate the facts to sell their product. That narrator was chosen as she was the best they had at lowering her voice to that ominous monotone.

Tom Dunne · 12-08-2013 8:32pm

What a load of nonsense.

Vague and uninformative, nothing more than video tabloid journalism to fill a half-hour slot.

tigershould · 12-08-2013 8:33pm

Was that it?

What a waste of half hour of my life.

Jack Kyle · 12-08-2013 8:36pm

Pretty worrying.

O'Leary appears to have nothing but contempt for pilots. He seems to see them as glorified bus drivers.

Razor44 · 12-08-2013 8:46pm

Tom Dunne wrote: »

What a load of nonsense.

Vague and uninformative, nothing more than video tabloid journalism to fill a half-hour slot.

id agree. The show did its self a total disservice on what frankly, should be a well represented program about safety concerns. We all know the pilots are treated badly and as for poor cabin crew.....the show didnt do anyone of those any justice or the serious internal issue in FR.

devnull · 12-08-2013 8:49pm

Letters published here
http://www.ryanair.com/en/news/ryanair-releases-channel-4-dispatches-letters

Tenger · 12-08-2013 9:30pm

The war of words commences-- (my emphasis in bold)

http://entertainment.ie/tv/news/Ryanair-goes-to-war-with-Dispatches-over-defamatory-documentary/205499.htm

The airline released a full statement on its official website, detailing its position on the documentary, and reassuring customers that the Irish Aviation Authority was perfectly happy with its safety record. They argued that the programme makers had refused Ryanair's offer of "legally binding guarantees to the individuals involved of no sanction if they made these claims on the record, solely so that Ryanair could publish details of their individual flight records, fuel records, sickness records and safety reports which would disprove their false claims".

The company went on to state that Dispatches ignored evidence provided by Ryanair and the IAA, "which disproved these fuel and safety claims, Dispatches have failed to address or report this evidence, preferring instead to publish these false claims in an unfair, unbalanced and inaccurate programme."

They also claimed that Dispatches had refused Ryanair’s offer of an unedited interview with CEO Michael O’Leary, during which he would be willing to address any claims raised by Dispatches and "rubbish the false claims made by these anonymous contributors". They say Dispatches would only interview the airline boss if they could edit his answers, and Ryanair were having none of that.

The last straw seems to have been an apparent refusal to read out the original draft of a Ryanair statement rejecting the claims. "Channel 4 Dispatches have refused to report this short statement in its unedited form", Ryanair's website states.

Razor44 · 12-08-2013 9:36pm

I realize im using the journal here as a source but in the interest of public knowledge

http://www.thejournal.ie/dispatches-channel-4-ryanair-1034150-Aug2013/

Shamrock231 · 12-08-2013 9:36pm

Ryanair's offer of "legally binding guarantees to the individuals involved of no sanction if they made these claims on the record, solely so that Ryanair could publish details of their individual flight records, fuel records, sickness records and safety reports which would disprove their false claims".

That's the bit I'm curious about, they mightn't fire them, but I've had friends who work in shops and the like where they're only paid by the hour, they won't fire you, but they'll reduce your hours so much and make them as hectic as possible that they may as well have.

They can spend more on bus fare having to report to their jobs for 1.5 hours on Monday morning and then later in the day for 1 hour on Monday evening, they were given 2.5 hours when for every Monday before they complained they had gotten 8 hours for the previous 11 weeks.

Not fired, but may as well have been. I'm curious as to whether the same could apply to pilots in Ryanair who are only paid by the hour and even if they're not fired, if hours are reduced or made go to another base, then they may as well have been.

Tropheus · 12-08-2013 9:37pm

Recorded this to watch later. Based on the above I'll delete and take back 30 mins of my life.

GTE · 12-08-2013 9:43pm

Tropheus wrote: »

Recorded this to watch later. Based on the above I'll delete and take back 30 mins of my life.

I found it fine, very hard for me to take any negative posts about the program seriously when pilots are being interviewed.

Watch it and make your own opinion by ignoring any iffy aspects of the production.

Shamrock231 · 12-08-2013 9:46pm

A post on another site sums up my opinions pretty well:

It's not whether you're breaking the regulations or not, regulations are only designed for the best case. Like on a motorway you can go at 120kmph, but in fog and snow going 120kmph will get you killed. It doesn't mean you're breaking the regulation, but it's important that pressure isn't being put on you to drive up to and at the legal limit.
Neither does it mean that 120kmph is too fast, 80%+ of the time, 120kmph is perfectly fine, if not too restrictive, but go 120kmph in fog and snow, while you're not breaking the law, you're asking for an accident.

You've got to take MOL's words with a pinch of salt, not breaking the law, and being safe are not the same things, you've just got to look into this.

I don't think I could put this better myself.

TheChizler · 12-08-2013 9:48pm

Shamrock231 wrote: »

Not fired, but may as well have been. I'm curious as to whether the same could apply to pilots in Ryanair who are only paid by the hour and even if they're not fired, if hours are reduced or made go to another base, then they may as well have been.

Constructive dismissal isn't looked upon too well in employment hearings.

BTE72 · 12-08-2013 9:56pm

Ask yourself Could there be truth in it?

Of course ...

Fuel league tables ? He states are in the interest of safety. My Ar$e!
Nothing more than a double edged sword
1. Staff performance scheme
2. major goal of saving fuel.

I have Listened to O'Leary previously in interviews on the Media.. Easily irritated,Self Righteous, pompous, arrogant.

He is flying be the seat of his pants and is surrounded by yes men.. Nobody has the balls to stand up to him in and out of Ryan air

tigershould · 12-08-2013 9:57pm

Tropheus wrote: »

Recorded this to watch later. Based on the above I'll delete and take back 30 mins of my life.

Yeh, make up your own mind. Maybe I was hoping for something more juicy. I spose they did have an ex Ryanair pilot on.

Altho, the legal proceedings could get juicy - will Ryanair be able to get the identities of the pilots involved?

Channel 4 Dispatches Investigation on Ryanair August 12th at 20:00

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