Why does childcare cost so much in Ireland?

Sand Wedge · 26-03-2013 3:00pm #1

I was reading the below article and it does astonish me how much it costs in Ireland for childcare especially in Dublin where it can cost up to €1,000 per month per child. There has to be a more cost effective way of providing childcare.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/childcare-costs-three-months-of-average-annual-wage-589219.html

I know some of the costs are because of staffing levels with:
Children under age of one requiring a staff to child ratio of 1-3
Aged 1-2, ratio of 1-5
Aged 2-3, ratio of 1-6
Aged 3-6, ratio of 1-8

Are these providers making huge profits? Should the state get invoved in this sector and provide childcare facilities where they can operate on a break even basis?

What are your thoughts and opinions?

Anyone · 26-03-2013 3:06pm

Sand Wedge wrote: »

I was reading the below article and it does astonish me how much it costs in Ireland for childcare especially in Dublin where it can cost up to €1,000 per month per child. There has to be a more cost effective way of providing childcare.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/childcare-costs-three-months-of-average-annual-wage-589219.html

I know some of the costs are because of staffing levels with:
Children under age of one requiring a staff to child ratio of 1-3
Aged 1-2, ratio of 1-5
Aged 2-3, ratio of 1-6
Aged 3-6, ratio of 1-8

Are these providers making huge profits? Should the state get invoved in this sector and provide childcare facilities where they can operate on a break even basis?

What are your thoughts and opinions?

I think you took the highest possible figure instead of the average of €162 per week.

Bobeagleburger · 26-03-2013 3:07pm

Childcare bubble.

Hardonraging · 26-03-2013 3:07pm

Taking care of somebody's spoilt little angel is no easy task, it's like you can just put them in a room and head off for a smoke and stick the head in ever 10 mins..

pabloh999 · 26-03-2013 3:08pm

It is expensive on a monthly basis, but when you break it down-
900euro p.m / 20 days
= 45euro per day.

900-1000 euro a month is alot to spend and im sure someone is making money from it.
But average of 45e to pay someone to mind your child for a full day doesnt seem like a huge amount

Augmerson · 26-03-2013 3:11pm

Sand Wedge wrote: »

Should the state get invoved in this sector and provide childcare facilities where they can operate on a break even basis?

No, they'd make a ****ing balls of it.

Addle · 26-03-2013 3:11pm

A childminder in my locality charges about €65 per week and supplies food. That seems to be the going rate here.
She minds more than one child.
She's tied to her house for 13 hours a day, twice a week.
She does a great job.
I think she should charge a lot more.

Sand Wedge · 26-03-2013 3:16pm

Addle wrote: »

A childminder in my locality charges about €65 per week and supplies food. That seems to be the going rate here.
She minds more than one child.
She's tied to her house for 13 hours a day, twice a week.
She does a great job.
I think she should charge a lot more.

That does seem like very good value. What locality is that in.

I suppose my query is more Dublin related then as most people I know are paying a minimum of a €1,000 per month. That is a lot to pay out of your after tax salary.

Kylo Ren · 26-03-2013 3:19pm

You can replace 'childcare' and put nearly anything you can think of and it will still hold true.

We're an expensive little island.

Tombo2001 · 26-03-2013 3:20pm

Hardonraging wrote: »

Taking care of somebody's spoilt little angel is no easy task, it's like you can just put them in a room and head off for a smoke and stick the head in ever 10 mins..

I know our Childminder manages to get her shopping done, cook the dinner, do all her housework, visit her own (adult) children while minding our kids.

Its not a tough gig.

Addle · 26-03-2013 3:21pm

Sand Wedge wrote: »

What locality is that in.

The West.

Tombo2001 · 26-03-2013 3:21pm

Keno 92 wrote: »

You can replace 'childcare' and put nearly anything you can think of and it will still hold true.

We're an expensive little island.

Good point......what is Ireland cheap for.....that would be an interesting conversation.

I remember when I was a kid my mother used to go on about people flying in from Iceland to do their shopping in Dunnes.

Knasher · 26-03-2013 3:21pm

A substantial proportion of that money will be spent on insurance. After that there is a lot of regulation that needs to be complied with, which is usually pretty expensive. If they could avoid all that then they would be a lot cheaper, but for some reason parents are really protective of their kids and demand high standards, and high standards are expensive.

wmpdd3 · 26-03-2013 3:23pm

I can bearly afford my creche and have had to cut it down to a bear minimum, but you can't beat it for value for 2 babies.

I wouldnt do their job for double their pay!

Like all business, they have break even points and profit points. I can't see how the baby rooms can be anything other than loss making. (babies 6 month plus)

pabloh999 · 26-03-2013 3:25pm

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Its not a tough gig.

You serious? Minding kid(s) is not a tough gig?
Do you have any young children?

ejmaztec · 26-03-2013 3:28pm

wmpdd3 wrote: »

I can bearly afford my creche and have had to cut it down to a bear minimum, but you can't beat it for value for 2 babies.

I wouldnt do their job for double their pay!

Like all business, they have break even points and profit points. I can't see how the baby rooms can be anything other than loss making. (babies 6 month plus)

It must be a nightmare when you get home and find you've picked up the wrong kids.

seamus · 26-03-2013 3:30pm

Insurance and rent are the two big killers for creches. Staff wages are a big cost but in the main creche staff aren't that well paid.

Sand Wedge · 26-03-2013 3:32pm

seamus wrote: »

Insurance and rent are the two big killers for creches. Staff wages are a big cost but in the main creche staff aren't that well paid.

Anyone got an idea of what insurance costs would be?

Fromthetrees · 26-03-2013 3:41pm

pabloh999 wrote: »

You serious? Minding kid(s) is not a tough gig?
Do you have any young children?

It is a tough gig but if you are an individual childminder it can be a nice little job.

If a mother has a kid of her own to mind anyway and takes on the responsibility to mind two or three other kids then it can be pretty profitable.

This mother would be a stay at home mother so gets to do all her housework and that anyway all the while making a few hundred Euro extra per week for herself.

hfallada · 26-03-2013 3:47pm

I suppose regulated places are new and there is little competition at the moment. Plus insurance for it must be huge.

I know in Germany the catholic church provides free child care if you pay the church tax which is 10% of you income. Which seems cheap enough. But I suppose the Germans don't have large families like the irish

Anyone · 26-03-2013 3:50pm

hfallada wrote: »

I suppose regulated places are new and there is little competition at the moment. Plus insurance for it must be huge.

I know in Germany the catholic church provides free child care if you pay the church tax which is 10% of you income. Which seems cheap enough. But I suppose the Germans don't have large families like the irish

I'd like to see that in Ireland purely for the thread it would generate in AH.

Three Seasons · 26-03-2013 3:51pm

I pay 150 per week for my 2 year old for 3 days a week. Luckily the grandparents help out on other days.

All in all I do feel it's worth it as she gets education as well as the chance to improve her social skills.

ejmaztec · 26-03-2013 3:59pm

Anyone wrote: »

I'd like to see that in Ireland purely for the thread it would generate in AH.

No doubt it will kick off shortly anyway.:eek:

shedweller · 26-03-2013 4:28pm

Augmerson wrote: »

No, they'd make a ****ing balls of it.

Yet it can be done in other countries. Lots of things can be done in other countries, that cannot be done here. We are too soft, too stupid.

delw · 26-03-2013 5:21pm

Tombo2001 wrote: »

I know our Childminder manages to get her shopping done, cook the dinner, do all her housework, visit her own (adult) children while minding our kids.

Its not a tough gig.

Maybe the one you know has it easy but i can tell you that my wife works in childcare with pre school age & by god she works hard,comes home exhausted & stressed.
Also where she works struggle to get staff (CE workers) because nobody wants to work with kids as it is a tough gig

clairefontaine · 26-03-2013 5:26pm

Sand Wedge wrote: »

I was reading the below article and it does astonish me how much it costs in Ireland for childcare especially in Dublin where it can cost up to €1,000 per month per child. There has to be a more cost effective way of providing childcare.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/childcare-costs-three-months-of-average-annual-wage-589219.html

I know some of the costs are because of staffing levels with:
Children under age of one requiring a staff to child ratio of 1-3
Aged 1-2, ratio of 1-5
Aged 2-3, ratio of 1-6
Aged 3-6, ratio of 1-8

Are these providers making huge profits? Should the state get invoved in this sector and provide childcare facilities where they can operate on a break even basis?

What are your thoughts and opinions?

That one is particularly interesting considering junior and senior infants range from 4-6 and their rations are far from 1-8. More like 1-25.

December2012 · 26-03-2013 5:40pm

For a parent to work full time:-

on average
- work time of 37.5 hours,
- travel time of at least 60 mins a day (to split the difference between the short commutes and the longer ones)

Looking at apx 9.5 hours of child care a day.

1000 / 20 days per month = 50 per day
50 per day / 9.5 hrs = €5.26 per hour

Crèches are open about 13 hours a day, must have cover for breaks, lunch, early starts and late finishes.

Crèches usually provide all food and snacks.

Insurance, heat, equipment, wages make up the cost. Apparently the only way money is made is by the chains and playing the long game, after school, summer camps, etc.

I think it should be tax deductible myself.

seamus · 26-03-2013 5:43pm

December2012 wrote: »

I think it should be tax deductible myself.

Indeed, it's already a money spinner for the government.

If two parents are working and paying for creche, the government gets income from
- Both parents' income tax
- VAT on the creche service
- Income tax on the creche employees
- corporation taxes on the creche

If the parents have to give up the creche and one stays home to mind the kids, it results in a massive net loss to the economy.

December2012 · 26-03-2013 5:54pm

Plus more crèche / child care centres are needed and therefore more staff employed, more tax paid, more funds in circulation.

Anyone · 26-03-2013 5:58pm

Aren't Creche Fees VAT exempt? Dunno if it has been changed recently.

As for the person staying home, and their income tax dropping, I'd assume the job would be filled by someone else who would pay tax.

Anyone · 26-03-2013 6:01pm

shedweller wrote: »

Yet it can be done in other countries. Lots of things can be done in other countries, that cannot be done here. We are too soft, too stupid.

People wouldn't pay the Gov for it, they would complain that its another tax and demand the service for free.

Why does childcare cost so much in Ireland?

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