Garda attitude - PFO?

robindch · 29-08-2012 6:21pm #1

Must be the weather or something, but three times in the last week and in exactly the same situation (though different places), me and my five-year old kid have some within a whisker of being knocked off the bike that we cycle around town together on. Here's one of the stories:

Me + snowflake a few days ago, the conditions are dry + bright and we're cycling up Merrion Square North in the direction of D4 and we reach the junction with Holles Street. We've a green light and continue on after checking in every direction. Immediately brake reasonably hard as as I see some moronic woman taking the turn from Merrion Square East onto Holles without apparently noticing me. I'm six-feet, btw, and wearing a bright red jacket. Snowflake's on the crossbar seat, strapped in and wearing a bright green + white jacket. The woman proceeds down Holles Street apparently unaware that if I hadn't braked, we'd probably have crashed into her. I wave my fist in her general direction, releasing the brakes in the process and continue. Immediately jam on the brakes a second time, this time stopping the bike sharply in the middle of the road, as a second moron drives within a few inches of my front wheel, again down Holles Street, apparently unaware that he'd almost killed us. I let rip with a string of obscenities in the direction of yer man's rapidly-receding exhaust pipe, causing a woman at the traffic lights to huff and puff mightily, shake her head and walk across the junction. Snowflake asks me why I shouted. Nobody else seems to notice. The car turns left at the bottom of the road and disappears.

So, this morning, passing by my local garda station, I drop in and here's a summary of the exchange:

Me: Hi. Are there ever any police placed at junctions around the city to check whether motorists are making dangerous turns? I'm asking coz... (explain some bits of the story above, expletives deleted)
Garda: No.
Me: Any chance there might be?
Garda: No. There's been terrible cuts around here. Go write to Alan Shatter.
Me: And that's it? Despite the fact that me and my daughter have come within inches of being killed by careless motorists three times in the last week?
Garda: Yes, that's it. Go write to Alan Shatter.
Me: I've heard enough (stalks out).

Ok, I get the cutbacks, but being told basically to go stuff myself? Is this the reaction that most cyclists get from the police? And are there any other options other than Traffic Watch (whose number I keep on my phone; was on hold for ~25 minutes last Sunday afternoon after another incident out near Blackrock; gave up and never bothered reporting)?

Diarmuid · 29-08-2012 6:35pm

robindch wrote: »

Me: Hi. Are there ever any police placed at junctions around the city to check whether motorists are making dangerous turns? I'm asking coz... (explain some bits of the story above, expletives deleted)
Garda: No.
Me: Any chance there might be?
Garda: No. There's been terrible cuts around here. Go write to Alan Shatter.
Me: And that's it? Despite the fact that me and my daughter have come within inches of being killed by careless motorists three times in the last week?
Garda: Yes, that's it. Go write to Alan Shatter.
Me: I've heard enough (stalks out).

You:Can I speak to your superiour please.

get on your bike · 29-08-2012 7:33pm

I'm on my bike with 2 children on it. One on back & one in middle & I'm always surprised of how many near misses I have with cars nearly crashing into us. On just thinking while writing is that I never seem to have any problems while by myself on the racer! Weird

Shapey Fiend · 29-08-2012 7:36pm

Seems to me cycling on busy roads in general with kids is pretty mental. There aren't any decent cycle lanes in this country so it's always going to be a lottery when you're sharing the same space with cars. My father used cycle with me on the bike in the 80's but the roads were 10 times quieter then and It wasn't around the city center.

Seaswimmer · 29-08-2012 7:39pm

get on your bike wrote: »

I'm on my bike with 2 children on it. One on back & one in middle & I'm always surprised of how many near misses I have with cars nearly crashing into us. On just thinking while writing is that I never seem to have any problems while by myself on the racer! Weird

I think when you have kids on the bike that you are less able to react quickly to dangerous situations. On your own you probably cycle faster and take slightly riskier actions to stay out of trouble. With kids on the bike you behave safely and expect others will do the same

fat bloke · 31-08-2012 4:37pm

Seaswimmer wrote: »

I think when you have kids on the bike that you are less able to react quickly to dangerous situations. On your own you probably cycle faster and take slightly riskier actions to stay out of trouble. With kids on the bike you behave safely and expect others will do the same

Also, I think one's Personal Safety and Indignation Zone areas increase fourfold when you have your child with you! You can fly into a rage at stuff which you might just tut tut at, or ignore altogether when alone on the bike.

Qualitymark · 31-08-2012 8:59pm

Anyone with a kid on the bike should have an airhorn.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/wb-Supporters-Loud-Air-Horn/dp/B002DG967W/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1346443129&sr=8-1

Iwannahurl · 31-08-2012 9:17pm

robindch wrote: »

So, this morning, passing by my local garda station, I drop in and here's a summary of the exchange:

Me: Hi. Are there ever any police placed at junctions around the city to check whether motorists are making dangerous turns? I'm asking coz... (explain some bits of the story above, expletives deleted)
Garda: No.
Me: Any chance there might be?
Garda: No. There's been terrible cuts around here. Go write to Alan Shatter.
Me: And that's it? Despite the fact that me and my daughter have come within inches of being killed by careless motorists three times in the last week?
Garda: Yes, that's it. Go write to Alan Shatter.
Me: I've heard enough (stalks out).

Ok, I get the cutbacks, but being told basically to go stuff myself? Is this the reaction that most cyclists get from the police? And are there any other options other than Traffic Watch (whose number I keep on my phone; was on hold for ~25 minutes last Sunday afternoon after another incident out near Blackrock; gave up and never bothered reporting)?

Over in the Emergency Services forum they are wont to refer to the Minister for Justice as Alan Sh!tter.

Here's a quote from a thread I'm currently contributing to:

Potential-Monke wrote: »

I think i've gotten to the stage where i just don't care anymore. Close the stations, cut the numbers, keep a ban on recruitment and cut our wages even more. But, don't expect us to be all understanding when everything falls to sh!t. I'm still going to do my job, but for reasons outlined above i'm certainly not going to do it with a smile and i'm not going to go out of my way to "go the extra mile". I can see it already in colleagues, you'll (eventually) get the response and the basics, but no more.

The frontline is getting to a stage when you'll get a basic service, and probably little follow-up for the majority of crime. The headline crimes will still get full investigations, TD's lost cats will have the full co-operation and resources they always get, firemen will put out the fires and paramedics will do all that they can, but no-more than what is needed. The everyday man, woman and child will suffer. And it sickens me. To truely understand it, you need to work it, or be close to someone that does (but even that isn't enough).

I know I, along with many, many others, would happily jump ship should a job that pays the same (any less and i'd lose my house) arrive. I don't care about security, and lets face it it's not as secure as it once was. I don't care about a good pension. It's getting harder and harder to go into work every day and give your best when nearly everything is against you.

Well before the cutbacks started to bite hard, and AGS supposedly began not to care any more, I found them less than responsive to dangerous driving incidents and other road traffic violations affecting non-motorists. Unless you're prepared to push hard and long, and take things all the way to court, you will get nowhere.

The anger is still finding its target, seemingly.

CardinalJ · 31-08-2012 9:21pm

Garda morale is at an all time low. I deal with the Gardai on a daily basis through my work and I see it going down hill the entire time. They're getting no support from the gov and the courts/prison service can't handle their 'clients' effectively due to cut backs. So when someone comes in complaining about an 'almost incident' they just don't care. Im not saying thats right at all. We all pay our taxes etc etc, but its the reality unfortunately.

I'd still have asked to speak to a sergeant or the super.

Also, don't write to Alan Shatter, write to a newspaper or 'Talk to Joe'. From my experience writing to a minister just leads to an acknowledgement letter stamped by a secretary.

Finally, that junction is lethal, so maybe a letter to the council complaining about how poorly signposted it is wouldn't go a miss.

hardCopy · 31-08-2012 9:28pm

To be fair, even when we had money coming out our arses the gardai could only monitor junctions for the Christmas period, at a massive overtime cost.

All you can really do is ride carefully and assertively, hope you survive any indiscretions and report the drivers reg number.

Fair play for bringing the kid on the bike, it's something that's great to see on my own commute. Don't let the sh1t drivers get you down.

mp31 · 31-08-2012 10:01pm

Helmet cam & give footage to the Gardai as evidence.

monument · 31-08-2012 10:54pm

Mobile and fixed red light cameras FTW. Seriously red light cameras at least at major junctions would make Dublin a nicer place to cycle, walk across a junction, push a pram etc. It's a myth that cyclists are the only ones who break red lights all the time.

I find that I've been far more aware of it since first bringing my son out in the pram and second on the bike.

I found motorists to be better with passing etc once I put him on the back and the cargo bike even more so, but you can get freaked out when small enough things happen (rightly so, I think).

Shapey Fiend wrote: »

Seems to me cycling on busy roads in general with kids is pretty mental. There aren't any decent cycle lanes in this country so it's always going to be a lottery when you're sharing the same space with cars. My father used cycle with me on the bike in the 80's but the roads were 10 times quieter then and It wasn't around the city center.

Your post is a bit mental.

Road deaths were around 500 per year in the 80s - now down to around 200. Roads are safer than they used to be.

Tones of people carry their children on their bikes daily, it's not that mental at all.

Qualitymark · 31-08-2012 10:57pm

What are these helmet cams and where do people acquire them?

Waitsian · 31-08-2012 11:05pm

Qualitymark wrote: »

What are these helmet cams and where do people acquire them?

http://www.dogcamsport.co.uk/mtb-bmx-bullet-cameras.htm

http://www.promotioncams.com/

Qualitymark · 01-09-2012 8:38am

mod9maple wrote: »

http://www.dogcamsport.co.uk/mtb-bmx-bullet-cameras.htm

http://www.promotioncams.com/

Thanks, brilliant.

karltimber · 01-09-2012 10:30am

Have a look at the Contour Roam.

Good cam for bike helmets - both cycles & motor.

K

GTDolanator · 01-09-2012 11:01am

You called your child snowflake?

For serious?

NamelessPhil · 01-09-2012 12:18pm

^^^^^^^

Yeah, sure, the same way mine is named on her birth certificate as "mini-me".:rolleyes:

I've had one incident in two and a half years of successful cycling with a child trailer attached. I reported it to Trafficwatch and it did get as far as the District Court.

Tips I got from the guard dealing with it at the time were:-

If you report an incident, try doing it to the/your local station rather than Trafficwatch as it is then the responsibility of the named guard. It can take a while (up to six weeks) for incidents reported to Trafficwatch to be posted out to the station responsible.

It took a year for the case to come to court, with at least two adjournments.

I realise that not all guards are in any way proactive about following up incidents (as demonstrated by Seweryn's recent thread), and with further cutbacks such policing may fall further behind.

My husband reported an incident at the same time that was not pursued by the guards, even though the circumstances were just as similar but without the trailer involved.

Eamonn Kee · 26-09-2012 1:00am

monument wrote: »

Mobile and fixed red light cameras FTW. Seriously red light cameras at least at major junctions would make Dublin a nicer place to cycle, walk across a junction, push a pram etc. It's a myth that cyclists are the only ones who break red lights all the time.

I find that I've been far more aware of it since first bringing my son out in the pram and second on the bike.

I found motorists to be better with passing etc once I put him on the back and the cargo bike even more so, but you can get freaked out when small enough things happen (rightly so, I think).

Your post is a bit mental.

Road deaths were around 500 per year in the 80s - now down to around 200. Roads are safer than they used to be.

Tones of people carry their children on their bikes daily, it's not that mental at all.

I agree with Shapey.
Wobbling around with a kid on the bars in busy traffic is mental. Some cyclists are completely dozey, and stupidily ignorant of cars, lorries and pedestrians.

Bottom line is tottering around on a bike in traffic, a cyclist is the one at risk and should make damn sure they don't totter out in front of a car.

Don't just go when the light is green - make sure that everyone who is supposed to have stopped actually has.

Cee-Jay-Cee · 26-09-2012 1:39am

While I can understand your frustration do you really expect a guard to stand at a junction simply to watch traffic in case there's an incident of careless driving?

Did you have the registration numbers of the cars involved? If not then your wasting your own and the guards time as without it the case is a non starter.

If you did have them then in order for anything to happen you need to be prepared to make a statement of complaint and then follow it up by going to court and giving your account of what happened (that's if it makes it to court)

Simply reporting it, even with the registration number is pointless. The days of guards having a 'word' with someone and warning them over a complaint made about their behavior are gone. Unless your prepared to back up your story by making a statement and giving your account in court then the guards are powerless to do anything.

Sundy · 26-09-2012 3:27am

robindch wrote: »

So, this morning, passing by my local garda station, I drop in and here's a summary of the exchange:

Me: Hi. Are there ever any police placed at junctions around the city to check whether motorists are making dangerous turns? I'm asking coz...

If you actually opened with that line and if the guard though you were being a bit condescending I can see why you got the smartish answers.

Skrynesaver · 26-09-2012 8:04am

Eamonn Kee wrote: »

I agree with Shapey.
Wobbling around with a kid on the bars in busy traffic is mental. Some cyclists are completely dozey, and stupidily ignorant of cars, lorries and pedestrians.

Bottom line is tottering around on a bike in traffic, a cyclist is the one at risk and should make damn sure they don't totter out in front of a car.

Don't just go when the light is green - make sure that everyone who is supposed to have stopped actually has.

To yourself and Shapey, I resent that remark, I get from the M50 to Merrion Sq. in 20 minutes at rush hour, and versa vice, (OK maybe 25 minutes on the way out). I do this while obeying the rules of the road (including stopping at lights) however many motorists see the first few seconds of a red light as optional, whereas a cyclist (due to our awareness of lorries) likes to get out of the junction before some loon decides to swing left from the right hand turn lane. This morning I had some idiot in a Micra nearly drive over me @ Kilshane cross because I stopped at the lights... There are doolish cyclists, foolish pedestrians and foolish motorists, but mechanically propelled vehicles are licensed because of the danger they present to other road users.

You should reconsider who is the obstacle in central Dublin

monument · 26-09-2012 11:56am

Eamonn Kee wrote: »

I agree with Shapey.
Wobbling around with a kid on the bars in busy traffic is mental. Some cyclists are completely dozey, and stupidily ignorant of cars, lorries and pedestrians.

Bottom line is tottering around on a bike in traffic, a cyclist is the one at risk and should make damn sure they don't totter out in front of a car.

Don't just go when the light is green - make sure that everyone who is supposed to have stopped actually has.

Telling people what they do is mental, trying to make out cyclists are the problem and then trying to offer advice.

Now, that's mental!

buffalo · 26-09-2012 12:08pm

Eamonn Kee wrote: »

Bottom line is tottering around on a bike in traffic, a cyclist is the one at risk and should make damn sure they don't totter out in front of a car.

I heartily endorse this statement! Clearly, every cyclist involved in an incident with a car must have tottered into that situation deliberately, while balancing two babies on their handlebars, and using another as a helmet.

The solution is for nobody to cycle ever again. To the carmobile!

Iwannahurl · 26-09-2012 12:11pm

buffalo wrote: »

I heartily endorse this statement! Clearly, every cyclist involved in an incident with a car must have tottered into that situation deliberately, while balancing two babies on their handlebars, and using another as a helmet.

The solution is for nobody to cycle ever again. To the carmobile!

Ah, the good old Dutch Airbag. I used to have one...;)

ootbitb · 01-10-2012 1:03pm

Irish city streets are so bike unfriendly I would never contemplate biking with a youngster onboard.

Three near misses should tell you something.

Jawgap · 01-10-2012 1:35pm

ootbitb wrote: »

Irish city streets are so bike unfriendly I would never contemplate biking with a youngster onboard.

Three near misses should tell you something.

Rubbish! A bit of common sense and patience are all that are needed to safely navigate Irish roads.

Irish and Dublin streets are fine for cycling on with a child / baby - the unfortunate side effects of my two maturing is that I can't get them on to the back of the bike any more - some of my best cycles were with a toddler on the back of the bike.

manwithaplan · 01-10-2012 2:54pm

That's settled it. Cycling is an exotic activity, an extreme sport that should not be imposed on our delicate youngsters. The solution is for us all to love our children a little bit more and stop throwing them in front of the traffic.

At least if you lost a child in front at Holles Street, you could pop in and get a new one. A bit like breaking down in front of the garage.

Jawgap · 01-10-2012 3:04pm

manwithaplan wrote: »

That's settled it. Cycling is an exotic activity, an extreme sport that should not be imposed on our delicate youngsters. The solution is for us all to love our children a little bit more and stop throwing them in front of the traffic.

At least if you lost a child in front at Holles Street, you could pop in and get a new one. A bit like breaking down in front of the garage.

Absolutely - every time my two take to the rugby pitch I thank God they've never shown too much interest in such a dangerous activity as cycling.

Oh, and i think it's easier to pick up a new one in the Rotunda - they're a bit cheaper because they are rougher around the edges!

SerialComplaint · 01-10-2012 4:50pm

mp31 wrote: »

Helmet cam & give footage to the Gardai as evidence.

This is particularly important where you want to show a trend, i.e. regular problems at a particular junction. I did manage to get the Traffic Corps to put some resources into stamping out abuse of one-way systems at this particular location, via letter to the Commissioner, follow up with the Inspector, and a bit of Youtubing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9QvqpLV7gI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_h2G9WxEDE

mod9maple wrote: »

http://www.dogcamsport.co.uk/mtb-bmx-bullet-cameras.htm

http://www.promotioncams.com/

There are much, much cheaper versions out there.

http://www.7dayshop.com/photo-and-video/cameras-and-camcorders/7dayshop-extreme-sports-helmet-action-video-camcorder?cl=4

The quality isn't amazing, but it's generally good enough to show up a reg number and see what happens - in dry, bright weather at least.

DUBintheSTICKS · 03-10-2012 3:38pm

SerialComplaint wrote: »

mp31 wrote: »

Helmet cam & give footage to the Gardai as evidence.

This is particularly important where you want to show a trend, i.e. regular problems at a particular junction. I did manage to get the Traffic Corps to put some resources into stamping out abuse of one-way systems at this particular location, via letter to the Commissioner, follow up with the Inspector, and a bit of Youtubing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9QvqpLV7gI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_h2G9WxEDE

mod9maple wrote: »

http://www.dogcamsport.co.uk/mtb-bmx-bullet-cameras.htm

http://www.promotioncams.com/

There are much, much cheaper versions out there.

http://www.7dayshop.com/photo-and-video/cameras-and-camcorders/7dayshop-extreme-sports-helmet-action-video-camcorder?cl=4

The quality isn't amazing, but it's generally good enough to show up a reg number and see what happens - in dry, bright weather at least.

In the first clip after the driver reversed up a cyclist past you heading the wrong way down the one way street but you didn't say boo to him.

Just seems a bit hypocritical that you didn't say anything to him.

Garda attitude - PFO?

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