GoBus/BE launch new Cork to Dublin/Airport Express service

bk wrote: »

ooking at the schedule, interestingly GoBus claim they can get Cork to Dublin Airport in 3 hours 15 minutes!! While it might be possible at off peak times, I don't think it is realistic at peak times and I think they should change the peak time schedule to reflect his, so as not to get people into a situation where they might miss their flight. Specially as GoBus stops further away in the bus park then Aircoach.

Exactly how I would describe it also, although this make it even more vital that Aircoach update their site that STILL mentions the fact the Dublin to Cork service serves the coach park, which redirects users to the new service ran by the opposition very soon. I've no doubt people will point this out to them but if they change it or not remains to be seen.

You would think they would allow more than 15 minutes from Busaras to Dublin Airport for the reasons that you mention, normally operators pad the arrival time at airports a little bit than cut it fine to prevent people from complaining at missing the flight. From a customer satisfaction point of view it's always better to arrive early than late. If they wanted to be quicker than Aircoach just allow 25 minutes.

JustMary wrote: »

Surely if BE wanted to simply knock out the competition, they would just have done it themselves?

Not when they legally cannot run such service as they cannot get a license for it, they have to be more cute about how they go about this, also they would like to see Aircoach, who would be considered a long term threat to the BE market should they make big gains due to their parent company, knocked out of the market, not just for the Cork run, but for the bigger public transport picture, same reason as they would perhaps like citylink to pull out, they would quite like to see the bigger resourceful privates removed from the market leaving smaller ones behind who are less able to fight with BE I would suspect.

kieran4003 wrote: »

An interesting, but long rumoured development.

It was mentioned on these boards long ago and rubbished!

- Departing from Parnell Place & Bus Aras: This will make the service very attractive compared to Aircoach. People waiting for the Aircoach service must get soaked most days with all the rain.

I think it's a bigger benefit in Cork than in Dublin, as the location in Dublin is better for passengers in my view. However in Cork the BE station is a much better location and facilities even if it is just across the road.

- The departure times are interesting, none of them are in direct competition with the X8.

More to do with the NTA guidelines I would suspect, when Aircoach have all the slots on the hour mark already taken up, which means they need to run on the half hour. This is good policy from the NTA as we don't want to see services run five minutes ahead or behind as that is predatory in my view.

The use of the name GO - BE, This will benefit BE much better then Go Bus, People will assume it means Go Bus Eireann. Most people in Cork have never heard of Go Bus

If the coach pictured on the Go BE website is showing the actual livery that will be used, the fact it is mostly red will also benefit Bus Eireann.

I feel sorry for Go Bus though. BE probaly want to use this service to knock out Aircoach and then apply for that licence and leave Go Bus in the lurch. I cant see Aircoach leaving the market completely.

I'd agree with that, which is why I think this is a gamble for Jim Burke, he's merely putting the majority of the money in, to build a service which Bus Eireann can possibly reap the rewards of if they pull the contract and access to bus stations later on as it would appear the BE service is a natural continuation of the service. I would assume at the end of the war Aircoach will pull out, GoBus will be the dominant operator, but would have took some financial hit from the war, leaving BE able to take advantage of the whole situation. It's win win for them, they have nothing now anyway.

The tickets are cheaper then Aircoach

Although they are advertised as promotional fares, and they're cheaper than the Galway route mostly for a bigger distance, I would think that this is more to take the challenge to Aircoach, and we'd see an increase in prices as they begin to win the war or the war finishes.

I imagine if a service is full that BE would lay on another coach, unlike Aircoach which has to leave passengers behind. Or else they can wait for an X8, it is only 30 minutes after from Cork.

Considering they allow online tickets only, then there cannot be any extra coaches as they would only sell enough tickets that can be accommodated on each departure. Burke's are running this contract alone with no drivers or vehicles from Bus Eireann I believe. I suspect there is good reason to operate online bookings only and not to allow BE to book tickets themselves.

There are a couple of odddities with this service however
- Cannot buy tickets on the bus, greatly limiting flexibility.

I'd say this clause is because of what I've talked about above, if they allow people to purchase tickets in Parnell Place or Busaras for instance, this leaves GoBus more vulnerable if BE decide to pull the partnership later on when Aircoach exit the market and BE market their own services from their own bus stations. If they can get people booking online in advance, this means that the change of departure points becomes less of an issue AND they encourage people to often visit their site, and their contact information making it easier for them to communicate the split to their advantage rather than BE's.

Timetable is confusing with the friday and sunday extra runs.
- Like Aircoach, no late night departure ex Cork.

Agreed, although it remains to be seen if this is just a temporary thing on the first point, and the second one is perhaps simply because they are more interested in flushing out the competition right now than actually providing new services that are not already provided, hence why all services tend to be half an hour ahead of Aircoach ones. They also want to seem faster to the airport, being a core market for Aircoach.

Perhaps though BE are not concerned with this in the short term. Maybe they only want to use this to establish a base if they get a licence at a later stage.

That is exactly how I see it, Bus Eireann are no doubt involved because of several other factors and their own ambitions, lets face it they would not do such a thing if they could get their own service, it is a marriage of convenience I would say.

bk wrote: »

Which begs an interesting question on the Limerick route. Are Kelly Travel wasting a valuable direct slot with their crap two services a day?

I think on such corridors there needs to be legislation that deals with such circumstance if that is indeed the case, as whilst it is not in this case, it could lead to one operator with a license getting another operator to run a couple of services each day to prevent any real competition, we've seen tow operators team up today to try and remove another one, there is no reason something similar couldn't happen to block entry to the market also in the future.

This shows the completely unfair situation with BE being allowed to use tax payer paid facilities like this. Bus stations should really be taken out of the hands of BE and put under the control of the NTA and all companies allowed to use them.

I agree but I can't see it happening, the fact is Busaras was supposed to be full but now they are adding more services to it. A similar situation happened in Belfast where Aircoach were denied permission to use the Europa, because it would be unsafe to have more services there, which eventually lead to a court battle, in which Aircoach now are allowed access to the area, but the stops just outside as Translink believe it is still part of the bus station. Again translink allowed others and themselves to expand there.

Interesting question, but not necessarily true at all. Rumour has it that BE are planning to cut out all overflow coaches. It was one of the main (faulty) reasoning behind them buying their new high capacity (very little leg room) coaches. To get rid of such overflows.

To be fair though GoBE are no doubt going to have better coaches than Aircoach and this is all the companies fault. They replaced the best coaches in Ireland in my book for comfort and leg-room without toilets with coaches that have far less comfort and legroom with toilets on some of the departures therefore fixing one problem and creating themselves a few more which is clearly now going to be exploited.

It shows that there really is very little real integration between GoBus and BE here.

Obviously, that is the best way at the end of the day for BE, Gobus take on all the risk and the majority of the funding, BE lend them some facilities and some marketing and promote the service to BE customers in order to hasten the demise of Aircoach without having to expose themselves to any risk. BE will pay the upfront marketing costs, which will help GoBus as they would be starting from scratch on the route otherwise.

As I said, it's good there is competition on the Dublin to Cork route but the way that it is happening is not the best for the consumer. I'd personally have liked to see them go it alone as like I say, this appears to be the two companies getting hitched to help each other out in the short term rather than the long term.

bk wrote: »

Yup, I wonder if it would be wise for Aircoach, CityLink and Dublin Coach to link up and create some sort of partnership.

They don't have any network overlap, they could create a single brand, with a single website, joint advertising pot *, the ability to book through trips (e.g. Galway (CityLink) -> Belfast (Aircoach) via Dublin Airport). It could also give them a stronger negotiating position with the DoT. .

With current ownership and structure of those three companies I cannot see it happening however there are without doubt some connections between the companies which means it cannot be completely ruled out. Generally though the problem is big groups don't often like going into partnership with each other for the long term, If all three companies were independents I could more likely see it happen. Citylink are all but out of the market in everything but name however

Aircoach
- Owned by huge North American and UK transport group FirstGroup since 2004
- Successful for many years but now loss making
- First looking to sell unprofitable parts of business.
- Believed to want to get involved in bus market from 2014
- Most vehicles lack toilets.
- Most vehicles leased to Aircoach directly, others First assets that are sent over
- Managing director used to work for Citylink and Metroline for many years
- Heavily reliant on airport users, now trying to change that

Dublin Coach
- Ran by the former boss of Aircoach
- Has two routes which seem to be doing well.
- Has an iPhone app.
- Whole fleet is leased
- Very good fleet apart from the fact
- It doesn't have toilets.
- I would suspect they are only just breaking even at best.
- Also operates quick park airport parking.
- Seems to allow vehicles to be parked up in same place as Aircoach

Citylink
- Owned by ComfortDelGro, a large Singapore based international transport company.
- Tender against First for London bus operations under the Metroline name.
- All operations now contracted out to Callinan's coaches in Galway
- Don't actually own or lease any vehicles, all carried out by subcontractor
- Aircoach a good few years ago did some work for Citylink.
- Formerly led by current Aircoach MD
- Has the most Intercity routes out of the three.

Also such a team-up is not always good for consumers, go and look at the bus market from Luton Airport to London and you'll see what I mean.

bk wrote: »

I'm not sure how smart it is if your direct competitor offers far greater flexibility and ease of us. The only reason GoBus will get away with this is because people might want to guarantee a bus with a toilet. But if Aircoach eventually fix this, then GoBus will likely lose customers due to this inflexibility.

Yes, but there are no ideal situations, as has been pointed out, if BE and GB go their separate ways later on, everyone who buys tickets will have given their telephone number and email address to GoBus,who would the me able to cheaply message such people via email or SMS without having to run an expensive marketing campaign.

BE meanwhile may then be able to run services itself from the bus stations it has kicked the competition out of, but all the customers that the former joint service had would be aware that their service has now moved out of there. They will not gain any walk-up customers who are looking for a service from Busaras or Parnell Place, because such people would have been educated to and had to book online in advance and would know about the split and book with Gobus, as they would be reguarly visiting the GoBus site as you cannot book tickets through GoBe.ie, only GoBus.

This is a perfectly sensible move for GoBus to carry out to safeguard itself from any possible split later on. I agree it's not perfect, but partnerships rarely are in the business world.

It'll be interesting to see if they target rail passengers pro-actively in this arrangement now, seeing as you'd think with BE involved in this new service they'd be less inclined to want to attract Irish Rail passengers, as part of the CIE Group to a service ran by a competitor even if they are partnering up at the end of the day.