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cyclists on the dundalk to castle'bham road

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24

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    #32
    rich.d.berry
    Registered Users Posts: 517 ✭✭✭rich.d.berry


    ShiverinEskimo wrote: »
    When cyclists and their marshalls completely take over a lane of traffic in the early evening then of course there will be intolerance. Riding 4/5/6 abreast while a stream of cars is held up at 20kmph for 20/30 minutes shows a total and utter lack of respect for other road users.
    I somehow doubt that they are 4/5/6 abreast, and if they are then it's not your responsibility to police them. I also doubt that motorists are held up by any more than 20 or 30 seconds.
    ShiverinEskimo wrote: »
    It's also worth bearing in mind that tractors and wide-loads are not holding up traffic for recreational purposes. Single cyclists going to and from work etc. are fine by me and I have all the patience and courtesy in the world for them. But this business of ruining other people's evening so you can enjoy yours is bollox.
    I have to tolerate motorists using their vehicles for non essential journeys, polluting and using dwindling natural resources in the process. I have no right to forbid it though. It is the motorists right as long as they do so legally. Likewise, cyclists have every right to engage in their chosen leisure pursuits on the roads, and you no right to forbid it either.

    If they are breaking the law and purposely obstructing traffic then, by all means, report their actions to the gardae.


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    #33
    ShiverinEskimo
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 18,115 ✭✭✭✭ShiverinEskimo


    shamwari wrote: »
    whats wrong with a smaller number over a smaller time scale in Louth, or for that matter, anywhere else?

    Read my posts. I've explained at length what is wrong.

    Entire lane taken over on a busy road at a busy time.
    Turns a 20 minute journey into a 50 minute journey.
    As many as 6 abreast with no gaps to allow safe overtaking.
    Marshals stopping traffic dangerously in the middle of the roundabout.
    Refusing to allow traffic to pass.
    Refusing to use the hard shoulder.
    Cycling club ignore complaints made my locals.

    If that happens regularly throughout Wicklow and Kerry then I'd be very concerned for Wicklow and Kerry people.
    rich.d.berry wrote: »
    I somehow doubt that they are 4/5/6 abreast, and if they are then it's not your responsibility to police them. I also doubt that motorists are held up by any more than 20 or 30 seconds.

    You doubt? How do you doubt? How long does it take to cycle from the Ballymac Roundabout to the junction at Fitzpatricks pub? A considerable amount of time. Had it been safe to pass I would have, but it wasn't safe, so I didn't.

    Not sure where you're getting 20 or 30 seconds from - I'm really at a loss to how you come up with that.


    rich.d.berry wrote: »
    I have to tolerate motorists using their vehicles for non essential journeys, polluting and using dwindling natural resources in the process. I have no right to forbid it though. It is the motorists right as long as they do so legally. Likewise, cyclists have every right to engage in their chosen leisure pursuits on the roads, and you no right to forbid it either.

    If they are breaking the law and purposely obstructing traffic then, by all means, report their actions to the gardae.

    It was reported to the Gardaí - nothing they can do apparently.

    And I do tolerate it - what did you think I did? I didn't mow them down, I didn't 'police' them as you think I must have. I sat behind them foolishly thinking that at some point they would filter down to maybe 2 abreast so I could pass safely. But no. They didn't and I drove the whole way from Ballymac to Fitzpatricks at 20kmph or less keeping a safe distance as is required. Try it yourself sometime - see if it only takes 20 or 30 seconds.


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    #34
    feck sake lads
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,889 ✭✭✭feck sake lads


    tayto lover wrote: »
    These cyclists from Cuchullain Cycling Club are a regular hazard on the Dundalk / Carlingford Road and are a complete nuisance. They think they own the road and put their enjoyment ahead of the needs of any other road users. I've had many a near miss with them.
    Ah Now its probable one of the best run clubs in ireland bar none.
    no i'm not a member and i live in drogheda.
    its a simple fact folks roads are not just for cars ,


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    #35
    rich.d.berry
    Registered Users Posts: 517 ✭✭✭rich.d.berry


    tayto lover wrote: »
    These cyclists from Cuchullain Cycling Club are a regular hazard on the Dundalk / Carlingford Road and are a complete nuisance. They think they own the road and put their enjoyment ahead of the needs of any other road users. I've had many a near miss with them.

    Then report them to the gardae, you can even use a dash mounted video camera to gather evidence. Or why not bring your complaints in person to the cycling club.

    But, I suspect that the cyclists are acting legally, and any near misses are as a result of your impatience and recklessness. But, please feel free to prove me wrong. I'd be more than willing to eat my words and offer an apology for doubting you if you were to post the incriminating video evidence here. I think that I speak for all reasonable, law abiding, cyclists in saying so.


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    #36
    furiousox
    Registered Users Posts: 6,894 ✭✭✭furiousox


    tayto lover wrote: »
    These cyclists from Cuchullain Cycling Club are a regular hazard on the Dundalk / Carlingford Road and are a complete nuisance. They think they own the road.....

    All of them are a nuisance and they all think they own the road?

    CPL 593H



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    #37
    ShiverinEskimo
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 18,115 ✭✭✭✭ShiverinEskimo


    At no stage have I said what they are doing is illegal. Just that it's obnoxious and inconsiderate to other road users.

    Like I said - I did what was required - I waited, and waited and waited. I didn't risk anything and I didn't endanger any cyclist in any way. But I did hate every single one of them to the very core for the utter disregard they show to motorists in much the same way I'm sure cyclists hate motorists who show utter disregard to cyclists.

    Also - the points about the motor tax I take on-board and stand fully corrected. Touché.


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    #38
    furiousox
    Registered Users Posts: 6,894 ✭✭✭furiousox


    ShiverinEskimo wrote: »
    At no stage have I said what they are doing is illegal. Just that it's obnoxious and inconsiderate to other road users.
    Like I said - I did what was required - I waited, and waited and waited. I didn't risk anything and I didn't endanger any cyclist in any way. But I did hate every single one of them to the very core for the utter disregard they show to motorists in much the same way I'm sure cyclists hate motorists who show utter disregard to cyclists.
    Also - the points about the motor tax I take on-board and stand fully corrected. Touché.

    I can understand your frustration, I've been on both sides of this scenario.
    It's club racing season at the moment, I don't know what alternative there is apart from closing the road completely which is unrealistic.

    CPL 593H



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    #39
    ShiverinEskimo
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 18,115 ✭✭✭✭ShiverinEskimo


    furiousox wrote: »
    I can understand your frustration, I've been on both sides of this scenario.
    It's club racing season at the moment, I don't know what alternative there is apart from closing the road completely which is unrealistic.

    Use the hard shoulder.
    Select a better day/time than 6pm/7pm Thursday (Commuters, late-night shopping in town).
    Stop Marshalls from dangerously stopping traffic mid-roundabout (seriously, safety reasons alone are reason enough to stop this practice)
    Cordon or designate over-taking areas in wider sections of the road and ensure the pace vehicles co-ordinate these.
    Alert traffic approaching the route (first I knew of it was when a marshall stepped out)
    Limit cyclists to two abreast except when passing another cyclist (this should already be the norm)

    And if the race format permits, break the group into sub-groups starting at intervals so there are gaps to overtake. Sort of like rally motorsport only with a few cyclists starting at each window a number of minutes apart.


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    #40
    rich.d.berry
    Registered Users Posts: 517 ✭✭✭rich.d.berry


    ShiverinEskimo wrote: »
    You doubt? How do you doubt? How long does it take to cycle from the Ballymac Roundabout to the junction at Fitzpatricks pub? A considerable amount of time. Had it been safe to pass I would have, but it wasn't safe, so I didn't.

    And I do tolerate it - what did you think I did? I didn't mow them down, I didn't 'police' them as you think I must have. I sat behind them foolishly thinking that at some point they would filter down to maybe 2 abreast so I could pass safely. But no. They didn't and I drove the whole way from Ballymac to Fitzpatricks at 20kmph or less keeping a safe distance as is required. Try it yourself sometime - see if it only takes 20 or 30 seconds.
    Apologies, my misunderstanding. I thought that you were referring to cyclists in a group out for a training spin, I hadn't realised that it was a club race. I can understand now how it added 20 minutes to your journey.

    It does seem strange that they should choose the late night shopping day to do it. A Wednesday would seem far more sensible.

    I'm not sure what to say about it. One would think that they could do a diversion loop about a 3rd to half of the way into the Ballymac to Fitzpatricks road to allow following vehicles through and then rejoin later or at the same point. Not knowing the road layout means that I don't know if it's even possible to do a loop. It may be worth suggesting something like that to the club race organisers.


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    #41
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,493 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Two abreast is the rule and the cyclists should stick to it. If they did that then everyone would be happy. Surely they know the law.


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    #42
    Bunnyhopper
    Registered Users Posts: 1,414 ✭✭✭Bunnyhopper


    We're all inconvenienced every day by other people.

    Is it obnoxious and inconsiderate every time cars have to wait at a level crossing? Every time cars have to queue behind a bus at a stop? Every time cars are delayed by someone on horseback or by a learner driver? Is it obnoxious and inconsiderate every time a cyclist is delayed by a queue of cars, or every time a pedestrian has to wait to cross the road because of traffic? Is it obnoxious and inconsiderate when streets are closed for the Marathon or a Formula 1 display or Paddy's Day or Obama?

    At one time or another I've been the one delayed in most of those situations, and I've been the one causing the delay in a lot of them. Either way it's just traffic, it's just other people having lives that have different priorities to mine, and we all deal with it every day.

    How many accidents were there on those roundabouts, given how dangerous the marshals were being, and what did the Gardaí have to say about this danger?

    The hard shoulder is not part of the road: it's a hard shoulder. Using it, like enforcing a two-abreast rule, would encourage dangerous overtaking, as anyone who cycles much will know. If you were to cordon off overtaking areas I'd wager someone else would be on here to complain about bits of the road being cordoned off. If the race were broken up into sections and riders sent out in small groups then there might also be someone complaining that the whole race takes too long and why asking why those obnoxious cyclists can't all go off in one bunch and get it over with quickly.


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    #43
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,267 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    Road races are generally held with the permission of the local Gardaí.

    Marshals don't have any authority to stop traffic. Their role is advise motorists of an oncoming hazard, i.e. the race.

    Marshals will generally err on the side of caution. It's far better to advise traffic to stop a little too early than risk sending a car towards a fast moving bunch of riders.

    Most road races would move at speeds of between 40 and 45kph. I've yet to see a tailback of more than a few cars on even major stage races.


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    #44
    ShiverinEskimo
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 18,115 ✭✭✭✭ShiverinEskimo


    Bunnyhopper wrote: »
    Is it obnoxious and inconsiderate every time cars have to wait at a level crossing? No. It's safe.
    Every time cars have to queue behind a bus at a stop? No it's traffic.
    Every time cars are delayed by someone on horseback or by a learner driver? No. They don't actively block traffic and prevent overtaking.
    Is it obnoxious and inconsiderate every time a cyclist is delayed by a queue of cars. No. That's traffic.
    Every time a pedestrian has to wait to cross the road because of traffic? No. It's safe and there are lights in place to ensure the junction is shared fairly by motorists and pedestrians alike.
    Is it obnoxious and inconsiderate when streets are closed for the Marathon or a Formula 1 display or Paddy's Day or Obama? No. They are once-offs, at weekends and accomodate quite a considerable number of spectators, have diversions in place and the public is notified well in advance.

    Got any more?


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    #45
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,834 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    ShiverinEskimo wrote: »
    Cyclists are welcome to have their meets but until they are paying road tax they can fúck right off with essentially closing a road at will. I've never been

    You can bet that the majority of people at these meets and races get there by car, on which they pay their motor tax.


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    #46
    ShiverinEskimo
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 18,115 ✭✭✭✭ShiverinEskimo


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    You can bet that the majority of people at these meets and races get there by car, on which they pay their motor tax.
    ShiverinEskimo wrote: »
    Also - the points about the motor tax I take on-board and stand fully corrected. Touché.

    .


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    #47
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Two abreast reminds me of the Simpsons.....

    Ned Flanders: “You were bicycling two abreast?”
    Homer Simpson: “I wish. We were bicycling to a lake.”

    The Simpsons, ‘Dangerous Curves’ (Episode 2005), first broadcast, November 10th 2008


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    #48
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,834 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    Well what point about 'road' tax did you take on board, that it doesn't exist, it that cyclists pay motor tax like you do?

    The road tax argument is the token ill thought out argument by most anti cyclist drivers.


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    #49
    ShiverinEskimo
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 18,115 ✭✭✭✭ShiverinEskimo


    The point taken on board was my referral to it as Road Tax, when in fact it is motor tax and therefore inapplicable to cyclists and shouldn't be used as a stick to beat them with.

    But sure ignore every other point I made and hit me with the motor tax thing again if you like. Big difference between being anti-cyclist and being pissed off when a large group of cyclists insist on hogging an entire lane of a busy road on a fairly regular basis.


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    #50
    triggermortis
    Registered Users Posts: 2,683 ✭✭✭triggermortis


    ShiverinEskimo wrote: »
    The point taken on board was my referral to it as Road Tax, when in fact it is motor tax and therefore inapplicable to cyclists and shouldn't be used as a stick to beat them with.

    But sure ignore every other point I made and hit me with the motor tax thing again if you like. Big difference between being anti-cyclist and being pissed off when a large group of cyclists insist on hogging an entire lane of a busy road on a fairly regular basis.

    So, from your own words, you get annoyed by slow moving traffic which just happens to be a group of cyclists? (and I doubt that they are going at 20Km/h!)


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    #51
    buffalo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,050 ✭✭✭buffalo


    ShiverinEskimo wrote: »
    When cyclists and their marshalls completely take over a lane of traffic in the early evening then of course there will be intolerance. Riding 4/5/6 abreast while a stream of cars is held up at 20kmph for 20/30 minutes shows a total and utter lack of respect for other road users.

    20kmph? I should get down to this race, I could win that easily! ;) If it moved at that speed, surely you'd be able to overtake at some point? More than likely you're exaggerating, because most races travel at a speed of at least 35kmph, and usually more like 40kmph.

    And if you're exaggerating that point, I see no reason to believe you're not exaggerating the rest of your statements.

    I have marshalled at races in Meath, Wicklow and in Dublin. Usually once a race, I encounter somebody who considers their time far more important than everyone else's, and would endanger lives given half a chance. I have seen a clearly visible marshall clipped by a car, and the driver blamed the marshall for getting in the way. I have had bumpers against my knees on more than one occasion. All because the driver was being delayed by, at the most, two full minutes.

    If the club in question are not doing anything illegal, and are not endangering your life, I suggest you either learn to live with the delay, or avoid it. Or join! See the world from the saddle! :)


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    #52
    Mycroft H
    Registered Users Posts: 9,316 ✭✭✭Mycroft H


    Its very clear from some of the responses here that a lot of people have no idea of how to behave around cyclists. We're simple folk.



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    #53
    alphabeat
    Registered Users Posts: 514 ✭✭✭alphabeat


    ShiverinEskimo wrote: »
    Thanks for your well-written and insightful contribution to the discussion.

    It's a real pleasure to decipher your opinions on the subject.


    feck , i thought this was AH

    * backs out whistling non chalantly *


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    #54
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,493 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    BX 19 wrote: »
    Its very clear from some of the responses here that a lot of people have no idea of how to behave around cyclists. We're simple folk.


    An English example I take it.
    Can't you find any Irish examples.
    Again if cyclists obeyed the law and stayed two abreast as they are supposed to then nobody has a problem. It's simple really.


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    #55
    Mycroft H
    Registered Users Posts: 9,316 ✭✭✭Mycroft H


    tayto lover wrote: »
    An English example I take it.
    Can't you find any Irish examples.
    Again if cyclists obeyed the law and stayed two abreast as they are supposed to then nobody has a problem. It's simple really.



    It is just as applicable here, if not more. We have a very similar road system and laws governing it.


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    #56
    buffalo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,050 ✭✭✭buffalo


    tayto lover wrote: »
    if cyclists obeyed the law and stayed two abreast as they are supposed to then nobody has a problem. It's simple really.

    A race might have up to 120 riders in it. Two abreast will make a bunch 60 riders long. Average bike length is maybe 1.5metres, so you think a 90metre long bunch of cyclists will be easier to overtake? They won't hold up traffic?

    Or, possibly, will people try to overtake and not leave enough space between their vehicle and the cyclists? Or get halfway along the group, realise they didn't have enough time/space to perform the entire manoeuvre because of oncoming traffic and pull in on top of the people on bikes?


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    #57
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,493 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    buffalo wrote: »
    A race might have up to 120 riders in it. Two abreast will make a bunch 60 riders long. Average bike length is maybe 1.5metres, so you think a 90metre long bunch of cyclists will be easier to overtake? They won't hold up traffic?

    Or, possibly, will people try to overtake and not leave enough space between their vehicle and the cyclists? Or get halfway along the group, realise they didn't have enough time/space to perform the entire manoeuvre because of oncoming traffic and pull in on top of the people on bikes?

    Ok then I get it all now.
    It's still bloody annoying though when your in a hurry.
    Roll on the next Tour of Carlingford then and I won't blast my horn at them :)


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    #58
    triggermortis
    Registered Users Posts: 2,683 ✭✭✭triggermortis


    If you left in good time, you wouldn't be in a hurry. Tour of Carlingford was last weekend..


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    #59
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,493 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    triggermortis wrote: »
    If you left in good time, you wouldn't be in a hurry. Tour of Carlingford was last weekend..

    Must have been poorly advertised as I hadn't heard of it being on. Was nearly late for my golf game :)


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    #60
    buffalo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,050 ✭✭✭buffalo


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Ok then I get it all now.
    It's still bloody annoying though when your in a hurry.
    Roll on the next Tour of Carlingford then and I won't blast my horn at them :)

    We all have to deal with inconsiderate road users sometimes. At this point, I've learned to anticipate the dangerous ones, and have patience with the ignorant ones. :)

    Berkeley-Road-B.jpg


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    #61
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,493 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    buffalo wrote: »
    We all have to deal with inconsiderate road users sometimes. At this point, I've learned to anticipate the dangerous ones, and have patience with the ignorant ones. :)

    Berkeley-Road-B.jpg

    Yes indeed. Patience is a virtue I am still trying to acquire.


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