Dublin school expels 4 pupils for 'disparaging Facebook comments'

seamus · 18-05-2012 2:52pm

Helix wrote: »

no, you'd expect to have the police involved

it wouldn't be a matter for your job to sort out unless it was something that was spilling into the workplace

how are people continually missing this?

We're not. But it would be unreasonable of my workplace to expect my colleague to continue having to work with me, so it would be totally reasonable to fire me because my behaviour is work-related. Even if I was perfectly professional in the workplace.

If the person on the receiving end of my abuse did not work in the company, then they would have no good reason to fire me.

It would be exceptionally unreasonable for the school to tell the teacher to deal with it outside of the school and to take no action against the kids. It's school-related conduct.

Helix · 18-05-2012 2:55pm

seamus wrote: »

We're not. But it would be unreasonable of my workplace to expect my colleague to continue having to work with me, so it would be totally reasonable to fire me because my behaviour is work-related. Even if I was perfectly professional in the workplace.

how does that make it work related?

Wossack · 18-05-2012 2:56pm

court action can be pursued alongside school disciplinary action - they're not substitutes for one another

Helix · 18-05-2012 3:09pm

Wossack wrote: »

court action can be pursued alongside school disciplinary action - they're not substitutes for one another

one has rightful jurisdiction, one does not

Wossack · 18-05-2012 3:24pm

school can do what it likes when it comes to protecting the schools image, and the interests of its teachers and students. And I'm sure the transgressors agreed to such policy upon induction or enrolement.

is there any legal basis, limiting a school to a jurisdiction? its not like an employee unfair dimissal for example

FoxT · 18-05-2012 4:11pm

I haven't seen the facebook page, and the details in teh media are sketchy. Nevertheless I think the school was probably wrong to expel the students.

Detention of students who 'liked' the page would be OK, provided that the detention time was spent in giving them a lecture on the implications & consequences of what they had done. Detention on its own is a waste of time .

Broadly speaking I think schools should not have the power to expel students - because it is a power that they will abuse if unchecked.

IMO the way it should operate is
- Schools suspend students pending a district court (or similar) hearing
- Court rules on how the students should be dealt with
- if court rules the students are to be expelled, then the court must also rule on how they are to complete their education.

Too often, the Board of mgt is in the pocket of the school principal - from the POV of parents & students, the district court or similar independent arbritrating body would be fairer.

Helix · 18-05-2012 4:24pm

Wossack wrote: »

school can do what it likes when it comes to protecting the schools image, and the interests of its teachers and students. And I'm sure the transgressors agreed to such policy upon induction or enrolement.

is there any legal basis, limiting a school to a jurisdiction? its not like an employee unfair dimissal for example

a school can't do what it likes unless it has been specifically agreed to by all parties prior to signing the student up

as for the second point, i suspect it's only a matter of time before we see a facebook related disciplinary measure taken to the courts

Dudess · 18-05-2012 4:29pm

I thought it was too harsh initially but then reconsidered when it struck me expulsions are not resorted to lightly. If there were allegations of a sexual nature made that would require intervention from the gardai/HSE (I can only think of one such type allegation) then perhaps the school had no choice but to expel?

newport2 · 18-05-2012 4:29pm

Helix wrote: »

no, you'd expect to have the police involved

it wouldn't be a matter for your job to sort out unless it was something that was spilling into the workplace

how are people continually missing this?

im not saying what the kids did is acceptable, nor should it be tolerated, but it's not the school's place to do anything other than report it to the appropriate authorities, which they are not unless it happens in school or while the student is representing the school, unless otherwise outlined explicitly in the school terms of acceptance which was agreed upon by the student's parents when signing up

If you harass a colleague outside the workplace it will spill into the workplace.

strobe · 18-05-2012 6:12pm

MarkyTheLips wrote: »

Totally agree that they shouldn't come across "the raw prawn" and behave as if they know better than a parent. I do still think the school should be able to say that if their criteria laid out in good faith and not in contravention of basic human rights are not met, there's no obligation to enroll or continue to facilitate a person under those circumstances. In all honesty, purely from an unbiased spectator's POV I would love to see the parent on the Aussie forum that said "try that on my child and I'll sue you into the dark ages" do just that.. (oh ok, I want mischief ) Hope I come across as civil Strobe!

Yeah, don't worry man, you come across extremely civil. In fact, you sure you have the right forum? :pac:

Yeah I get what you're saying about a school being able to set their own criteria etc, but I just don't think it should extend to matters outside of the school, unless perhaps they directly impact things in the school. In the case in question the pupils brought the facebook stuff inside the school by having a go at a teacher at the school, similarly students writing stuff about each other, or bullying each other on facebook would bring it within the schools jurisdiction, however a student simply having an account for their personal use is not, in my opinion, a school related issue.
And I don't want to seem histrionic or anything, but seeing as you mentioned human rights, I do believe collective punishment is covered in there.

mariaalice · 18-05-2012 6:26pm

Would the boys have gone up to the teachers and said what they said directly to the teacher's concerned? probably not yet they felt it was alright to post it on the Internet.

seavill · 18-05-2012 9:55pm

Just to clear something up for all those unaware.

For those who think making a comment about a teacher being gay isn't a big deal, it could be.

A teacher CAN lose their job for being gay in a Catholic school, or could be denied a job for the same reason as their life could be seen as going against the ethos of the school.
This is probably one of the only places left in the country where someone can be discriminated against for being gay.
(for those saying life outside of school has no relevance to inside school, if it does for the teachers why not for the pupils?)

So in short allegation of being gay against a teacher could have a huge impact on their lives outside of the whole cyber bullying argument.

(I do realise that they are looking at legislation to overturn this but this is still legal today)

MarkyTheLips · 18-05-2012 11:04pm

Yeah, don't worry man, you come across extremely civil. In fact, you sure you have the right forum? :pac:

Yeah I get what you're saying about a school being able to set their own criteria etc, but I just don't think it should extend to matters outside of the school, unless perhaps they directly impact things in the school. In the case in question the pupils brought the facebook stuff inside the school by having a go at a teacher at the school, similarly students writing stuff about each other, or bullying each other on facebook would bring it within the schools jurisdiction, however a student simply having an account for their personal use is not, in my opinion, a school related issue.
And I don't want to seem histrionic or anything, but seeing as you mentioned human rights, I do believe collective punishment is covered in there.

Thanks! It doesn't strike me as a "punishment" per se, not a collective one either in the Oatlands affair as it isn't making anyone delete their FB. The Aussie school are only insisting that the pupils (and parents) abide by FB's own TOS, so effectively depriving the underage pupils of something they shouldn't have in the first place according to FB themselves. As an aside, I don't think under 13s should have a FB.. But then, I am a crusty old fcuk (of a 31 year old

)

araic88 · 18-05-2012 11:13pm

FoxT wrote: »

I haven't seen the facebook page, and the details in teh media are sketchy. Nevertheless I think the school was probably wrong to expel the students.

Detention of students who 'liked' the page would be OK, provided that the detention time was spent in giving them a lecture on the implications & consequences of what they had done. Detention on its own is a waste of time .

Broadly speaking I think schools should not have the power to expel students - because it is a power that they will abuse if unchecked.

IMO the way it should operate is
- Schools suspend students pending a district court (or similar) hearing
- Court rules on how the students should be dealt with
- if court rules the students are to be expelled, then the court must also rule on how they are to complete their education.

Too often, the Board of mgt is in the pocket of the school principal - from the POV of parents & students, the district court or similar independent arbritrating body would be fairer.

Such rubbish.

I also haven't seen the comments but imagine they were pretty serious, it's not worth the risk of losing an appeal after expelling a student.

As has been pointed out before, this school may well have expelled pupils for bullying other pupils, but that wouldnt have been of media interest. I'd also hope staff-staff or staff-pupil bullying would be dealt with in a similar manner.

17 year olds are not little kids and the internet is not always a harmless bit of fun.
There are education welfare officers to help such students find new school, they should keep their heads down & mouths shut in future!

languagenerd · 18-05-2012 11:26pm

Helix wrote: »

im not taking the kids just being kids line, im saying that if they slander their teachers outside school that's a case for the court, not for the school

if they slander their teachers inside school, it's a case for the school, as well as the court

In my secondary school, anyone could be disciplined for something they did outside school if it "damaged the school's image".

Eg. There was a particular rule that a lot of people hated that stipulated that you couldn't smoke while wearing the school uniform, because it was deemed that you were representing the school. So people were given demerits or detention after being seen smoking outside school grounds or on their way home.

This could be a similar case, because (a) the students probably had their school listed on their profile and (b) someone in this thread said that the page in question was called "Oatlands College Memes". If this is the case (I don't know for sure), then it could technically be seen as "representing the school" or at least "damaging the school's image".

Also, if the teacher(s) in question felt bullied or intimidated, then, yes, the school has the right to expel students. Why should someone have to face people who have harrassed them everyday? Why should the school have to accept someone who has been bullying other members of the community? It's the same way that if a student bullied another student, whether inside school or out, it would be acceptable that they be expelled/moved to protect their victim.

Obviously, we don't know the full seriousness of this situation, so we can't say for sure. But I don't think it was outside the school's jurisdiction...

byhookorbycrook · 18-05-2012 11:37pm

FoxT wrote: »

Broadly speaking I think schools should not have the power to expel students - because it is a power that they will abuse if unchecked.

IMO the way it should operate is
- Schools suspend students pending a district court (or similar) hearing
- Court rules on how the students should be dealt with
- if court rules the students are to be expelled, then the court must also rule on how they are to complete their education.

Too often, the Board of mgt is in the pocket of the school principal - from the POV of parents & students, the district court or similar independent arbritrating body would be fairer.

Parents will generally fight any expulsion, schools only use it as a very last resort it is almost impossible to expel students and every i must be dotted and t crossed,several times.Even then, the school can be forced to take the student back, no matter what they have done, who they have assaulted,threatened,how much criminal damage they have done etc.

How can you assert that the BOM is "in the pocket of the principal?"As to completing education, the student is excluded from one school, not all schools.

19-05-2012 7:46am

Helix wrote: »

im not taking the kids just being kids line, im saying that if they slander their teachers outside school that's a case for the court, not for the school

if they slander their teachers inside school, it's a case for the school, as well as the court

They're slandering their teachers inside and outside school.. Doesn't matter where the kids were sitting when the posts were made. The effects were felt both inside and outside the school.

Your logic would allow me to slander freely from a different jurisdiction or share company secrets online as long as I'm outside work. Saying it's a only a civil matter is completely deluded.

Show Time · 19-05-2012 10:07am

problemchimp wrote: »

I take the points about bullying, but is this a bullying issue? No other pupils were bullied and let's face it, we all had stories/rumours about teachers when we where at school. Suspension? yes. Expulsion? no.

What about the reputation of the teachers???

Do their good names matter at all??

False accusations and rumours could destroy their careers.

validusername1 · 21-05-2012 8:33pm

Depends what exactly they said.

I don't think there's anything wrong at all with discussing a teacher's work (like if they're a bad teacher or not). I have a few absolutely horrendous teachers who really just cannot do their job. I'd have no problem saying that in Facebook and if I got caught, well it's not me who can't do my job. I don't think saying unnecessary things like bítching about them for no reason is okay, though. They're people, they have feelings too. But if there's an actual reason (like if something is true, or if a student is just talking about a teacher treating them unfairly/being bítchy to them or whatever). I have had a number of my own teachers have horrible attitudes towards me for nothing. Why's it okay for them to do that? Again, wouldn't have a problem saying that on Facebook and getting caught if it's all true.

However, saying mean or insulting things like ''she's fat'' or something is not right..

seavill · 21-05-2012 9:12pm

validusername1 wrote: »

Depends what exactly they said.

I don't think there's anything wrong at all with discussing a teacher's work (like if they're a bad teacher or not). I have a few absolutely horrendous teachers who really just cannot do their job. I'd have no problem saying that in Facebook and if I got caught, well it's not me who can't do my job. I don't think saying unnecessary things like bítching about them for no reason is okay, though. They're people, they have feelings too. But if there's an actual reason (like if something is true, or if a student is just talking about a teacher treating them unfairly/being bítchy to them or whatever). I have had a number of my own teachers have horrible attitudes towards me for nothing. Why's it okay for them to do that? Again, wouldn't have a problem saying that on Facebook and getting caught if it's all true.

However, saying mean or insulting things like ''she's fat'' or something is not right..

So saying she is fat is not ok, even though may be actual fact, but saying they are crap teacher just beacuse YOU think so thats ok.

Maybe you and your friends think so, maybe the problem is you not her.

Your opinion is your opinion you are entitled to it, doesn't make it correct though.

There is no difference between calling someone a bad teacher and fat, you are slagging them off either way. Real lack of maturity there in your post if you can't see that.

MagicSean · 21-05-2012 9:17pm

validusername1 wrote: »

I have had a number of my own teachers have horrible attitudes towards me for nothing.

Perhaps it's you that's the problem and not everyone else

BattleCorp · 21-05-2012 9:25pm

validusername1 wrote: »

Depends what exactly they said.

I don't think there's anything wrong at all with discussing a teacher's work (like if they're a bad teacher or not).
However, saying mean or insulting things like ''she's fat'' or something is not right..

The comments were of a sexual nature according to newspaper reports. I don't think that comments of a sexual nature fall into whether a teacher is a good teacher or not.

validusername1 · 21-05-2012 10:28pm

MagicSean wrote: »

Perhaps it's you that's the problem and not everyone else

Eh what problem are you referring to there..?

validusername1 · 21-05-2012 10:36pm

seavill wrote: »

So saying she is fat is not ok, even though may be actual fact, but saying they are crap teacher just beacuse YOU think so thats ok.

Maybe you and your friends think so, maybe the problem is you not her.

Your opinion is your opinion you are entitled to it, doesn't make it correct though.

There is no difference between calling someone a bad teacher and fat, you are slagging them off either way. Real lack of maturity there in your post if you can't see that.

Because saying something like ''she's fat'' is just malicious and there's no need for it. Whereas if somebody's teaching skills are bad, there's a need for that to be said so that the teacher can realise and make an effort to improve. And no, it's not me ''that is the problem''. Don't judge the situation before you've lived it. For this particular teacher, not one person in my class thinks she is good. Try telling me how a teacher who sits, tells us do questions, never corrects them, clearly expects us to already know how to do them, tell me how that is good teaching skills? Nobody in my class thinks so. So don't talk about something you know nothing about.

''Your opinion is your opinion, doesn't make it correct though''. Yeah no shít? Nobody's opinion is correct or incorrect. That's why they are called opinions.

And it is not ''slagging'' a teacher off if I mention the reasons why me and the majority of my class failed our mock. It's not our fault. I do the work I can. It's not taught properly. A teacher's teaching skills directly affect my education. Her weight does not. So no, they are most definitely not the same thing. And don't go accusing me of being immature, please. I'd advise you to find out the full information of a story before you go judging people. Nice life lesson for you.

validusername1 · 21-05-2012 10:38pm

BattleCorp wrote: »

The comments were of a sexual nature according to newspaper reports. I don't think that comments of a sexual nature fall into whether a teacher is a good teacher or not.

Eh, I never said that it did??
I was clearly speaking generally about discussing teachers on Facebook and the different types of things that, in my opinion, are appropriate/not appropriate.

seavill · 21-05-2012 10:48pm

validusername1 wrote: »

Because saying something like ''she's fat'' is just malicious and there's no need for it. Whereas if somebody's teaching skills are bad, there's a need for that to be said so that the teacher can realise and make an effort to improve. And no, it's not me ''that is the problem''. Don't judge the situation before you've lived it. For this particular teacher, not one person in my class thinks she is good. Try telling me how a teacher who sits, tells us do questions, never corrects them, clearly expects us to already know how to do them, tell me how that is good teaching skills? Nobody in my class thinks so. So don't talk about something you know nothing about.

''Your opinion is your opinion, doesn't make it correct though''. Yeah no shít? Nobody's opinion is correct or incorrect. That's why they are called opinions.

And it is not ''slagging'' a teacher off if I mention the reasons why me and the majority of my class failed our mock. It's not our fault. I do the work I can. It's not taught properly. A teacher's teaching skills directly affect my education. Her weight does not. So no, they are most definitely not the same thing. And don't go accusing me of being immature, please. I'd advise you to find out the full information of a story before you go judging people. Nice life lesson for you.

One is rude one is slanderous. I'll let you figure out which is which, from your point of view one is much worse to say than another.

Maybe as you said "there is no need" for any of it. Why is it your business to post it online anywhere? Just because you want to?

As I said its your opinion, maybe there is another student in a different class that has the complete different opinion. So why have you the right to write what you want to clearly defame your teacher.

Just because you mention the reasons why you are slagging off their teaching abilities does not mean you are not slagging them off. It's the exact same thing as calling them any name, either way you are slagging them off, just because you justify it in your own head, does not make it anything but slagging someone off. I fail to see how you can see that any other way.

I did not say you were immature I said there was a lack of maturity in your post. Which again there is, by firstly getting so irate and secondly when you cannot see that whatever you say about them you are slagging them off, as I said no matter what way you justify it in your own head how are you not slagging them off? If I am missing something feel free to explain.

Thanks for the life lesson all the same, always good to get one at least once a day

validusername1 · 21-05-2012 10:51pm

seavill wrote: »

I fail to see how you can see that any other way.

And there we have it, proof of your ignorance. You have a nice day now

BattleCorp · 21-05-2012 10:51pm

validusername1 wrote: »

Eh, I never said that it did??
I was clearly speaking generally about discussing teachers on Facebook and the different types of things that, in my opinion, are appropriate/not appropriate.

This thread is about comments made of a sexual nature about teachers and the reaction of the school to these allegations so how am I supposed to know that you were talking about different types of allegations.

Clearly you weren't being clear.

Secondly, you can't go and slate teachers on the internet if you think they are bad. Even if the whole class thinks that the teacher is bad, you shouldn't go writing articles about them on the internet.

If you have a problem with a teacher, then there are rules and regulations about the method to follow regarding complaining about them etc.

Even if the teacher is the most useless gobsh1te in the entire Dept of Education, they are entitled to fair process. You can't make wild allegations that might damage their credibility or else you could find yourself on the wrong end of a civil action. I'm not saying that they would win, I'm just saying that you could end up in court.

seavill · 21-05-2012 10:53pm

validusername1 wrote: »

And there we have it, proof of your ignorance. You have a nice day now

Maybe you didn't understand my post seen as you couldn't come up with a mature response.

Saying something bad about someone = slagging them off
Saying something bad about someone = slagging them off

Calling someone fat = slagging them off
calling someone a bad teacher/footballer/student/milkman = slagging them off

If I have said something incorrect please point out, otherwise I will presume you have seen how you are wrong and have accepted my point of view

secretambition · 21-05-2012 10:56pm

I just hope that exactly the same decision would be made, and it would have been taken as seriously, if these 4 were found to have done this to another student, rather than a teacher, because a persons right not to be bullied should not depend on rank or status within the school. It should be equal for everyone.

validusername1 · 21-05-2012 11:04pm

BattleCorp wrote: »

This thread is about comments made of a sexual nature about teachers and the reaction of the school to these allegations so how am I supposed to know that you were talking about different types of allegations.

Clearly you weren't being clear.

Secondly, you can't go and slate teachers on the internet if you think they are bad. Even if the whole class thinks that the teacher is bad, you shouldn't go writing articles about them on the internet.

If you have a problem with a teacher, then there are rules and regulations about the method to follow regarding complaining about them etc.

Even if the teacher is the most useless gobsh1te in the entire Dept of Education, they are entitled to fair process. You can't make wild allegations that might damage their credibility or else you could find yourself on the wrong end of a civil action. I'm not saying that they would win, I'm just saying that you could end up in court.

I have never discussed teachers on Facebook and don't plan to. I just wouldn't have a problem with doing it if I felt like it. When you have been treated as unfairly and like absolute shít by 1 or 2 particular teachers (just because they had the power to, honestly nothing else) like I have, and above that also being an awful teacher in the process, when you know what that feels like, come back to me and tell me how you think they deserve decency. Probably slightly bitter but if you were in my situation you'd be the same. The Facebook thing is just relevant to that because it means I don't see much wrong other people knowing what they're really like also. And yeah, maybe I should've been clearer about what I was on about. Oh well.

validusername1 · 21-05-2012 11:11pm

seavill wrote: »

Maybe you didn't understand my post seen as you couldn't come up with a mature response.

Saying something bad about someone = slagging them off
Saying something bad about someone = slagging them off

Calling someone fat = slagging them off
calling someone a bad teacher/footballer/student/milkman = slagging them off

If I have said something incorrect please point out, otherwise I will presume you have seen how you are wrong and have accepted my point of view

The line you said was showing ignorance. You're being hypocritical as you're accusing me of refusing to accept other people's points of views, yet you admitting to doing just that by saying ''I fail to see how you can see that any other way''.

Don't really know how voicing my feelings makes me lack maturity but so be it. That's just ignorant people for ya I guess.

''If I have said something incorrect please point out'' - That's just the thing. Your opinion can neither be incorrect nor correct, so I don't see how you expect me to do that. All I'm saying is that I don't agree with you. Why is that not okay?

seavill · 21-05-2012 11:13pm

validusername1 wrote: »

The line you said was showing ignorance. You're being hypocritical as you're accusing me of refusing to accept other people's points of views, yet you admitting to doing just that by saying ''I fail to see how you can see that any other way''.

Don't really know how voicing my feelings makes me lack maturity but so be it. That's just ignorant people for ya I guess.

''If I have said something incorrect please point out'' - That's just the thing. Your opinion can neither be incorrect nor correct, so I don't see how you expect me to do that. All I'm saying is that I don't agree with you. Why is that not okay?

So I wasn't saying anything incorrect so?

BattleCorp · 21-05-2012 11:14pm

validusername1 wrote: »

I have never discussed teachers on Facebook and don't plan to. I just wouldn't have a problem with doing it if I felt like it.

Fair enough, you aren't going to badmouth teachers so no problem there (not that I have any great love for teachers either). But can you not see the dangers in doing this?

It's your opinion that the teacher is bad. We have all had useless gobsh1tes teach us in our time. Maybe you are right about the teacher and maybe you aren't, it doesn't matter. You can't go badmouthing people on the net with no consequences.

If you think that they are crap, then report them. Badmouthing them on the internet is the equivalent of taking the law into your own hands, and that's not allowed.

If I thought you were a heroin dealer and a kiddie fiddler (but you had never been convicted of it), would it be ok for me to publish that you were a heroin dealer and a kiddie fiddler on the internet? I think not.

I know it is an extreme example but can you see my point? The internet is a dangerous place and people don't seem to realise that you can't put anything you like up on the internet.

validusername1 · 21-05-2012 11:17pm

seavill wrote: »

So I wasn't saying anything incorrect so?

Considering somebody being a bad teacher is fact and not subjective, yes, you were saying something incorrect.

Me saying that an opinion can't be neither wrong nor right was directed at the view on discussing these things on Facebook. Different people have different morals. Obviously yours are different to mine. You just can't accept that and move on, can you?

Sad really.. Anywho I have better things to be doing now, so if you don't mind getting on with your life now that'd be fantastic

Can you do that?

Joe10000 · 21-05-2012 11:20pm

I got a bit more detail on this today but I'm sure how much I can say so as to not repeat the slander but the male teacher in question had reason in the normal course of his work to work with the boys one on one, a scurrilous link was made between this role and his sexuality which was completely without foundation and was vindictive in the extreme.

Based on this I think the expulsions are easily justified.

seavill · 21-05-2012 11:22pm

validusername1 wrote: »

Considering somebody being a bad teacher is fact and not subjective, yes, you were saying something incorrect.

Me saying that an opinion can't be neither wrong nor right was directed at the view on discussing these things on Facebook. Different people have different morals. Obviously yours are different to mine. You just can't accept that and move on, can you? Sad really.. Anywho I have better things to be doing now, so if you don't mind getting on with your life now that'd be fantastic Can you do that?

You seem to have misunderstood my couple of posts. I am only trying to help you clear something up. I thought my 2nd last one was clear enough.

I wasn't talking about whether someone was a bad teacher or not.

Several times I have tried to say that you mentioned previously that you felt calling them fat and commenting on their teaching ability were not the same thing.
I tried to explain how either way you were slagging them off. You disagreed originally but then seemed to misread my posts after that.

I am not agreeing or disagreeing with you whether the teacher is good or not. I have never mentioned anything of the sorts in any of my posts, I think your (as you said) "bitterness" is getting in the way slightly.

My last few posts were the fact that whatever you say about them you are slagging them off, whether you thing it is justified or not is irrelevant. Either way you could walk yourself into a lot of trouble as BattleCorp is saying also.

validusername1 · 21-05-2012 11:25pm

BattleCorp wrote: »

Fair enough, you aren't going to badmouth teachers so no problem there (not that I have any great love for teachers either). But can you not see the dangers in doing this?

It's your opinion that the teacher is bad. We have all had useless gobsh1tes teach us in our time. Maybe you are right about the teacher and maybe you aren't, it doesn't matter. You can't go badmouthing people on the net with no consequences.

If you think that they are crap, then report them. Badmouthing them on the internet is the equivalent of taking the law into your own hands, and that's not allowed.

If I thought you were a heroin dealer and a kiddie fiddler (but you had never been convicted of it), would it be ok for me to publish that you were a heroin dealer and a kiddie fiddler on the internet? I think not.

I know it is an extreme example but can you see my point? The internet is a dangerous place and people don't seem to realise that you can't put anything you like up on the internet.

So you're using examples like using Class A drugs and molesting kids along with being a bad teacher? The difference is the first two are illegal, the second one is not. I have no problem in seeing that people should be careful about what they put on the internet because there can be major consequences for certain things, I get what you're saying, what I don't have a problem with is saying something like ''I don't like Ms ___ 'cause she is a bad teacher imo''. I would say that upfront to my principal's face if he directly asked my opinion on her/him. The internet is just more give the opinion even if it's not asked. Obviously it's not a good idea to say negative things about anyone on the internet no matter who they are 'cause you never know what way they may take it. But yes I do see your point

paddyandy · 21-05-2012 11:32pm

Helix wrote: »

if they're dickheads in school, during school hours or while officially representing the school, then i agree

outside that, the school has absolutely no jurisdiction and it shouldve been taken up in the courts

It's not outside the school if it's affecting morale and discipline inside the school .

validusername1 · 21-05-2012 11:33pm

seavill wrote: »

You seem to have misunderstood my couple of posts. I am only trying to help you clear something up. I thought my 2nd last one was clear enough.

I wasn't talking about whether someone was a bad teacher or not.

Several times I have tried to say that you mentioned previously that you felt calling them fat and commenting on their teaching ability were not the same thing.
I tried to explain how either way you were slagging them off. You disagreed originally but then seemed to misread my posts after that.

I am not agreeing or disagreeing with you whether the teacher is good or not. I have never mentioned anything of the sorts in any of my posts, I think your (as you said) "bitterness" is getting in the way slightly.

My last few posts were the fact that whatever you say about them you are slagging them off, whether you thing it is justified or not is irrelevant. Either way you could walk yourself into a lot of trouble as BattleCorp is saying also.

Saying something negative is not ''slagging someone off'' in my opinion. To me, slagging someone off is saying unnecessary things about someone just for the sake of saying something negative with intent to hurt the person. To me, saying someone is a bad teacher is not slagging someone off because of that. This is why I don't think they are the same things. Obviously ''slagging off'' means something different to you.

''Could walk yourself into a lot of trouble'' - I said I never have and have no intent to say anything on Facebook about teachers. What part of this are people not getting..

I wouldn't say anything to another person about somebody (be it a teacher, friend, stranger) unless I would say it to that person's face also. I wouldn't care about telling this teacher my opinion of her. Calling her ''fat'' to her face however would just be plain rude (she's not fat anyway fyi, just used that as an example) and would not achieve anything. Whereas telling her how the way she currently ''teaches'' is ineffective would.

seavill · 21-05-2012 11:42pm

[QUOTE=validusername1;78805397]Saying something negative is not ''slagging someone off'' in my opinion. To me, slagging someone off is saying unnecessary things about someone just for the sake of saying something negative with intent to hurt the person. To me, saying someone is a bad teacher is not slagging someone off because of that. This is why I don't think they are the same things. Obviously ''slagging off'' means something different to you.

''Could walk yourself into a lot of trouble'' - I said I never have and have no intent to say anything on Facebook about teachers. What part of this are people not getting..

I wouldn't say anything to another person about somebody (be it a teacher, friend, stranger) unless I would say it to that person's face also. I wouldn't care about telling this teacher my opinion of her. Calling her ''fat'' to her face however would just be plain rude (she's not fat anyway fyi, just used that as an example) and would not achieve anything. Whereas telling her how the way she currently ''teaches'' is ineffective would.[/QUOTE]

I have previously mentioned my definition of slagging someone off I won't repeat for the sake of it, you have seen it.

You have said you are not going to post it, we are just using it as the example rather than actually talking about you doing it.
Again the fat thing was just as an example obviously, not actually meant about that teacher. How would I know?

If you feel so strongly about it, as you seem to, why have you not done what you are going on about here, and actually said it to the teacher or the principal. As you have said in your last line saying she is ineffective would achieve something, so if she has been that bad for 2 years why have you not done so.

You seem to have just joined in to get the rant off your chest, as you won't actually do it in real life. Hopefully it has helped and you can just get through the last week or so with this person until you don't have to see them ever again (presuming you are in 6th year possibly not)
If I were you I would just forget about them unless you are going to approach the principal and concentrate on your own work as worrying about the teacher at this stage is only going to hamper your studies.

We get you think that you believe it true so you are allowed say it on facebook, if so test it out and let us know how you get on. otherwise we are just going around in circles here. Either you see nothing wrong with posting it and feel you won't get in trouble because it is true, so do it, otherwise there is no point in just ranting off here and dragging things off topic

validusername1 · 21-05-2012 11:46pm

seavill wrote: »

I have previously mentioned my definition of slagging someone off I won't repeat for the sake of it, you have seen it.

You have said you are not going to post it, we are just using it as the example rather than actually talking about you doing it.
Again the fat thing was just as an example obviously, not actually meant about that teacher. How would I know?

If you feel so strongly about it, as you seem to, why have you not done what you are going on about here, and actually said it to the teacher or the principal. As you have said in your last line saying she is ineffective would achieve something, so if she has been that bad for 2 years why have you not done so.

You seem to have just joined in to get the rant off your chest, as you won't actually do it in real life. Hopefully it has helped and you can just get through the last week or so with this person until you don't have to see them ever again (presuming you are in 6th year possibly not)
If I were you I would just forget about them unless you are going to approach the principal and concentrate on your own work as worrying about the teacher at this stage is only going to hamper your studies.

We get you think that you believe it true so you are allowed say it on facebook, if so test it out and let us know how you get on. otherwise we are just going around in circles here. Either you see nothing wrong with posting it and feel you won't get in trouble because it is true, so do it, otherwise there is no point in just ranting off here and dragging things off topic

Ah jesus I'm not even gonna bother reading that. No time for this shít. Cya
*adds to ignore list*

anirishlad · 22-05-2012 12:01am

Ive seen people get attacked in school by another student and only get a weeks worth of detention for it.

I wonder what would happen if someone attacked the principal :pac:

mcmoustache · 22-05-2012 12:32am

A good old fashioned caning would have nipped this in the bud. Just sayin'.

paddyandy · 22-05-2012 11:27am

Never had problems with pupils 50 years ago....then the telly arrived .

Mr. Loverman · 22-05-2012 3:58pm

I also went to Oatlands.

I remember putting a dildo package under the wiper of Ms. Show Everyone Yer Tits's car.

I have good memories from Oatlands but they aimed to make everyone average.

Shout to out Mr. Carolyn, he was a brilliant teacher.

Faolchu · 22-05-2012 4:42pm

seavill wrote: »

A teacher CAN lose their job for being gay in a Catholic school, or could be denied a job for the same reason as their life could be seen as going against the ethos of the school.

I believe that in the last 12 months there was a case exactly like this. not sure if it was here or in the UK. i'm a little vague on the facts not sure if the teacher was fired after coming out or was denied a job because he came out.
as for this matter the scrotes got what they deserve, its not right that they can say what they want about a teacher and get away with it this can ruin the reputation and/or family of a teacher depending upon the allegation.

as for the detention for the others, well that's akin to the gang that stand by watching as some poor kid gets beaten up or laugh when that same poor kid is verbally & mentally abused by a bully. they are in my opinion no better and should have been given a stronger punishment like suspension at teh end of the day their actions directly condoned the bullying of a teacher

christmas2012 · 22-05-2012 5:32pm

i think immediate expulsion (without first suspension) was a little harsh for facebook comments

the_syco · 22-05-2012 6:00pm

GaryIrv93 wrote: »

How come those bullies don't get suspended or expelled? Why aren't kids as fully protected?

In most cases, the kids will deny the bullying happens, in fear of repercussions from the bully, so they can't be prosecuted.

The teachers don't fear such repercussions, and thus will get the bully prosecuted.

frank reynolds wrote: »

but i wouldnt be stupid enough to turn it into a media frenzy by expelling the students - one of which is a TD's son. i'd stop and think about it.

So, if someone said on a school facebook page that they had a video of you getting sucked off by a (same sex) student, you'd let it pass?

As for the TD's son; f**k the politicians; no longer will they get away with this just for being a politician!

kowloon · 22-05-2012 6:50pm

TeddyTedson wrote: »

How about a quote for us iPhone 4S users

I ALSO HAVE AN iPHONE 4S!!!!!!!!!111111

Dublin school expels 4 pupils for 'disparaging Facebook comments'

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