[AudreyHepburn]

Originally Posted by Knight who says Meh

Oh look. the usual high horsed catch all telling off from Audrey which she will start backing down from with the highest level of denial and indignance. Fianna Fail rarely got an over all majority so its safe to say that a huge percentage on boards have not voted for them. I have not so please reign in your wagging finger and dont question my memory or accuse me of lying or do so to others on here.

If I were trying to act high and mighty I'd have tried to deny that I voted FF but there's no point in lying. I have no intention of backing down from anything.

They were voted in by the majority whether you like it or not. Perhaps you didn't vote them, but many of those claiming they didn't have to have done so or FF would not have been in government for 17 years.

It's not high and mighty finger wagging.....it's the truth, it's logic.

[looksee]

No never, right back to the early 70's. In latter years hubby was voting FF so I would just have to go and vote to cancel his!

[patwicklow]

No Always knew they were corrupt to the core and really pleasing now to see the FF party were it belongs in the sewer, and hope its banished of the face of the earth like the PD,S now the would be icing on the cake.

[Foghladh]

I voted Fianna Fail in 2002 and 2007. I didn't in the last election though because I figured a change was due. FG got my vote on that occasion.
If I felt that they had some policies that appealed to me in the future I don't see that I'd rule them out just for the sake of it. I'll reserve judgement on my next vote until the time comes.

[Einhard]

Originally Posted by lugha

They were largely delivering to everyone.

No they weren't. They weren't delivering sound governance, sustainable administarion, or prudent management of the economy, which is what I was looking for.

Originally Posted by AudreyHepburn

They were voted in by the majority whether you like it or not.

Actually you're wrong here. Fianna Fail haven't gained an overall majority in a general election since 1977, and even then only 46% of the population voted for them. That figure has diminished in the past two decades, so that in 1997, 2002, and 2007, the party received the support of 39%, 41%, and 41% of the electorate respectively. The party has consistently received a plurality of the vote, but never a majority of the vote.

65% of the respondents to this thread's poll claim never to have voted for Fianna Fail. Considering that historically, Fianna Fail have never received more than 43% of the vote, meaning that 60% do not vote for the party in each election, the number here who claim never to have voted for the party is not that outlandinsh, especially as the denizens of the boards political forum might be considered to be somewhat more discerning than their counterparts in the rest of society.

[Toby Take a Bow]

Originally Posted by lugha

They were largely delivering to everyone. At the height of the boom there was enough money swilling around to enable them to do so.

Not really enough money, if you're (by you, I mean FF) basing your projections on a property bubble. The money isn't going to last forever.

Originally Posted by lugha

And in any case, when were the Irish electorate, or any other one, wise enough to realize that pre-election political promises are not necessarily honoured?

It happens all the time. I presume it's a fairly well-known tactic from any party hoping to go into government.

Originally Posted by lugha

There was some corruption and certainly is was tolerated more in FF than other parties. But its contribution to our current crisis is grossly overstated.

Had FF been a squeaky clean, ethical party I think we would be largely in the same place now as we currently are.

Definitely: in that the larger economic crisis would have affected us, and that the major parties all largely follow the same economic understanding. I do, however, think the 'brown envelope' culture which was so endemic in FF helped to inflate the property bubble, and so was made worse by the party being in government being more open to that way of doing things.

[Permabear]

Originally Posted by yosser hughes

So you knowingly and willingly vote for a 'crooked' party. Well done you.

Some people have short memories.

Between 1997 and 2007, many people were happy to vote for Fianna Fáil without caring too much about the omnipresent taint of corruption. As Bertie laughed and joked his way around Ireland, we gave him cute names, calling him a "cute hoor" or the "Teflon Taoiseach." Nobody believed his evidence before the Mahon tribunal that he won the money on the horses, or borrowed it from friends, or found it down the back of the sofa, but most simply didn't care. It was like seeing your favorite uncle dragged into court for having no tax on the car -- a lot of fuss about nothing.

The electorate at the time cared only that the property boom kept booming, that public-sector wages kept increasing, and that social-welfare benefits kept going up. If it took the Galway tent and a few brown envelopes to keep the developers and politicians happy ... well, many people were willing to overlook such minor improprieties, because many people perceived themselves as benefitting from what was going on.

[Happy Monday]

Originally Posted by Einhard

Neither FG nor Labour stated in their manifestos that they would burn bondholders. Some individual candidates made off the cuff remarks along those lines that they shouldn't have, but neithe party claimed that theyt would seek anything other than to renogitiate the deal FF signed with the troika. It's your perogative to exercise your mandate based on the remarks of a tiny minority of candidates rather than a considered assessment of the party position, but you shouldn't then claimt o be surprised when your expercations aren't delivered upon.

http://www.finegael2011.com/pdf/Fine...%20low-res.pdf

Unilateral burning of junior bondholders stated on this link - search bondholders.

Lies, damned lies and Fine Gael/Labour.

[Border-Rat]

I've never voted. I'll strategically vote for Sinn Fein when the time is right (And I know a lot of people who are similar). However despite being North of the border, I can say despite hating FF I would also have seriously considered strategically supporting them if they were serious when they once gestured a move up here. I believe in an end to partition obviously as a priority.

[johngalway]

Originally Posted by Happy Monday

FG/Labour
Lies, lack of ethics and corruption.

Who is corrupt in the current Government parties please?

[southsiderosie]

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[Eggy Baby!]

I've never voted before.

[lugha]

Originally Posted by Einhard

No they weren't. They weren't delivering sound governance, sustainable administarion, or prudent management of the economy, which is what I was looking for.

Perhaps you were. And indeed, there were some isolated voices, usually academic or professional ones who wanted this. But the great unwashed did not. They had high wages, low taxes and exploding property prices which was going to make them very rich. Happy out.

Of course there are a substantial number of people who now realise that they should have wanted prudent management of the economy during the boom years, which is not altogether the same thing.

No doubt the denial that the people had any role in our economic demise will continue. Unfortunately, election results are a matter of record so the self delusion (presumably!) must at some point stop.

Originally Posted by Toby Take a Bow

Not really enough money, if you're (by you, I mean FF) basing your projections on a property bubble. The money isn't going to last forever.

Of course not. And for me, this was the single greatest failure of the FF years. But there was enough money to do almost anything in the short term. And like bread eaten, bread yet to be baked has negligible value as a political currency.

Originally Posted by Toby Take a Bow

I do, however, think the 'brown envelope' culture which was so endemic in FF helped to inflate the property bubble, and so was made worse by the party being in government being more open to that way of doing things.

I don’t agree, had the CIF followed Bertie around constantly poking him with a stick and calling him a fat fool I doubt the latter would be any less supportive of the construction industry. After all FF were the greater political winners (as well as losers ultimately!) during the boom years.

[later12]

Originally Posted by johngalway

Who is corrupt in the current Government parties please?

Are you familiar with the Mahon report?

Enda Kenny has refused to say whether his councillors named as corrupt and/ or criticised in the Mahon report will be expelled from the Fine Gael party. Unlike Micheal Martin who advocated expulsion for corrupt FFers, Kenny refused to express an opinion when drawn.

It was quite unfortunate for him to pose for a photograph with Denis O'Brien earlier in the week too, while we're on the subject.

[Mr.Micro]

Originally Posted by later12

Are you familiar with the Mahon report?

Enda Kenny has refused to say whether his councillors named as corrupt and/ or criticised in the Mahon report will be expelled from the Fine Gael party. Unlike Micheal Martin who advocated expulsion for corrupt FFers, Kenny refused to express an opinion when drawn.

It was quite unfortunate for him to pose for a photograph with Denis O'Brien earlier in the week too, while we're on the subject.

Hardly an indication of corruption in the current Government. Martin has done nothing yet, Ahern saved him having to wield the axe.