Spanish bishop makes inflammatory comments about women who've aborted <title-edited>

Delirium · 11-01-2012 1:29pm #1

Are the RCC having some sort of "say the most offensive sh*t possible" competition this year??

The Archbishop of Granada, Javier Martinez, said in his Christmas sermon that it was acceptable for women who have had an abortion to be raped. Author Manuel António Pin expresses his outrage in the daily Jornal de Notícias: "The Spanish Church won't let anyone dissuade it from its intolerant traditions. ... After [Prime Minister] Mariano Rajoy, who is close to the Church, announced his intention of 'extirpating the putrid secular abortion law' that was passed under Zapatero's government I was given a copy of a Christmas sermon delivered by the Archbishop of Granada in which he says that 'a woman who has an abortion gives a man absolute licence to abuse her body without restrictions because she has committed a sin as if she had a right to do so'. ... For the Archbishop Hitler's and Stalin's crimes (he forgot Franco's) were 'less dreadful than abortion'. In such situations even a non-believer wishes there was a God to condemn these people."

Source

MOD NOTE:
Thread title changed from "Spanish bishop says its ok to rape women who've had abortions".
(For new readers - this will explain the translation battle later in the thread.)

ANOTHER MOD NOTE:
Thread title changed again from "Spanish bishop makes inflammatory comments about women who've aborted <title-edited>"; btw, there's an 85-char limit on thread titles

Penn · 11-01-2012 1:35pm

I'm going to book flights to Spain.

So I can kick the living sh*t out of that f*cker

strobe · 11-01-2012 1:37pm

Perhaps he meant that by a woman allowing an abortion to be performed on her she is allowing a man 'to abuse her body without restrictions'?

smcgiff · 11-01-2012 1:38pm

A wounded animal is more dangerous. Hopefully this animal is in it's death throes.

charlemont · 11-01-2012 1:43pm

So that's why Larry Murphy went to Spain, I bet Larry attends mass to listen to that priest.:rolleyes:

Delirium · 11-01-2012 1:45pm

strobe wrote: »

Perhaps he meant that by a woman allowing an abortion to be performed on her she is allowing a man 'to abuse her body without restrictions'?

Possibly, but the use of "man" instead of "doctor" leaves it too vague and can easily be read as it's okay to rape women who've had abortions.

jhegarty · 11-01-2012 1:49pm

Any source on this , that isn't that one article ?

Penn · 11-01-2012 1:51pm

strobe wrote: »

Perhaps he meant that by a woman allowing an abortion to be performed on her she is allowing a man 'to abuse her body without restrictions'?

I doubt it. 'a woman who has an abortion gives a man absolute licence to abuse her body without restrictions because she has committed a sin as if she had a right to do so' reads to me that she gives a man absolute licence to abuse her body because she has already had an abortion

MagicMarker · 11-01-2012 1:59pm

jhegarty wrote: »

Any source on this , that isn't that one article ?

Can you speak Portuguese?

Original Article.

Horses Mouth.

Delirium · 11-01-2012 2:00pm

jhegarty wrote: »

Any source on this , that isn't that one article ?

Link to google translate version of the document produced by the bishop.

Link to original Spanish version

coffee_cake · 11-01-2012 2:06pm

yeah
Eso le da a los varones la
licencia absoluta, sin límites, de abusar del cuerpo de la mujer,

seems clear cut enough

Sarky · 11-01-2012 2:11pm

I would laugh if it wasn't such a mind-bogglingly heinous statement.

im invisible · 11-01-2012 2:14pm

I said to Johnny 'my fanta tastes like cola' WHAT THE FCUK?

Beruthiel · 11-01-2012 2:41pm

Sarky wrote: »

I would laugh if it wasn't such a mind-bogglingly heinous statement.

Yup.
It's so appalling, I don't have the words.

Galvasean · 11-01-2012 2:48pm

I'm really hoping it's some sort of terrible mistranslation.

coadyd · 11-01-2012 3:21pm

sick sick twisted inhuman bastard....:mad:

Tea_Bag · 11-01-2012 3:48pm

can't wait for the Vatican to defend this one.

Doctor Jimbob · 11-01-2012 3:58pm

Tea_Bag wrote: »

can't wait for the Vatican to defend this one.

Can we have a little competition? Whoever guesses their response wins!

I'm going to guess they'll go with the 'completely ignore' option.

Sarky · 11-01-2012 3:59pm

Someone will mention Hitler, Stalin, and/or Pol Pot.

Penn · 11-01-2012 4:00pm

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Can we have a little competition? Whoever guesses their response wins!

I'm going to guess they'll go with the 'completely ignore' option.

"Abortion is wrong"

Dodge the issue - Check
Doesn't say the priest/bishop was wrong - Check
Reiterates a moral point they have no real business making - Check

Seems like a winner to me.

coffee_cake · 11-01-2012 4:03pm

"don't have abortions and you won't have anything to worry about then"

sensibleken · 11-01-2012 4:29pm

"Outrage over this is political correctness gone mad"

actually thats the after hours response

thebullkf · 11-01-2012 4:31pm

Folks I ain't religous at all and having read that i don't know how in the name of jaysis ( pun intended) how ye concluded its ok to rape women who've had abortions... thread title is misleading and disengenious.

i wish the OP would change it tbh, i think its designed to be inflammatory (apologies if i'm wrong-though i doubt it) it just furthers the anti-christian agenda that appears prevalent on boards.ie .

He says the only thing a christian would do is forgive....

There is only one medicine for this crime: forgiveness, medicine that only Christians know

also says :

A Teen tricked by the guy who abused her..

so he doesn't give permission/or advocate abuse of a woman who's had an abortion but rather the opposite

FWIW- i don't see the word RAPE anywhere. please point it out to me, otherwise my earlier point still stands- i.e designed to inflame.

Cheers.

11-01-2012 4:35pm

thebullkf wrote: »

Folks I ain't religous at all and having read that i don't know how in the name of jaysis ( pun intended) how ye concluded its ok to rape women who've had abortions... thread title is misleading and disengenious.

i wish the OP would change it tbh, i think its designed to be inflammatory (apologies if i'm wrong-though i doubt it) it just furthers the anti-christian agenda that appears prevalent on boards.ie .

He says the only thing a christian would do is forgive....

also says :

so he doesn't give permission/or advocate abuse of a woman who's had an abortion but rather the opposite

FWIW- i don't see the word RAPE anywhere. please point it out to me, otherwise my earlier point still stands- i.e designed to inflame.

Cheers.

Quoted directly from the sermon:
Pero matar a un niño indefenso,...
¡y que lo haga su propia madre!
Eso le da a los varones la licencia absoluta, sin límites,...
de abusar del cuerpo de la mujer,...
porque la tragedia se la traga ella,...
...y se la traga como si fuera un derecho:

My line-by-line interpretation:
But to kill a defenceless child,...
...and to do his own mother! (literal translation, may be a misquote/typo in the source. I'm assuming it means "and for it to be done by his own mother")
That gives men the absolute licence, without limits, to...
...abuse the body of the woman/women...
...because she swallows the tragedy,...
...swallows it as if it were a right.

I think the line "That gives men the absolute licence, without limits, to abuse the body of the woman/women" is what (rightly IMO) has people up in arms, and if he doesn't explicitly mention rape, it's certainly one reasonable interpretation of what he said

GLaDOS · 11-01-2012 4:36pm

^^

'a woman who has an abortion gives a man absolute licence to abuse her body without restrictions because she has committed a sin as if she had a right to do so'.

This is the quote causing all the trouble.

It could be an interpretation/translation issue though?

Sonics2k · 11-01-2012 4:36pm

True, the word Rape is not used. However, as copied from the AH thread, here's the translation.

But to kill a defenceless child,...
...and to do his own mother! (literal translation, may be a misquote/typo in the source. I'm assuming it means "and for it to be done by his own mother")
That gives men the absolute licence, without limits, to...
...abuse the body of the woman/women...
...because she swallows the tragedy,...
...swallows it as if it were a right.

'Without limits to abuse the body of the women.'

I think that's a pretty open statement right there. And abuse is a horrible word to use in this case.

Penn · 11-01-2012 4:36pm

thebullkf wrote: »

Folks I ain't religous at all and having read that i don't know how in the name of jaysis ( pun intended) how ye concluded its ok to rape women who've had abortions... thread title is misleading and disengenious.

i wish the OP would change it tbh, i think its designed to be inflammatory (apologies if i'm wrong-though i doubt it) it just furthers the anti-christian agenda that appears prevalent on boards.ie .

He says the only thing a christian would do is forgive....

also says :

so he doesn't give permission/or advocate abuse of a woman who's had an abortion but rather the opposite

FWIW- i don't see the word RAPE anywhere. please point it out to me, otherwise my earlier point still stands- i.e designed to inflame.

Cheers.

You raise some fair points. But while it doesn't say 'rape', what would you take from this part of the sentence:

gives a man absolute licence to abuse her body without restrictions

Absolute licence.... to abuse her body.... without restrictions....

thebullkf · 11-01-2012 4:38pm

28064212 wrote: »

Quoted directly from the sermon:
Pero matar a un niño indefenso,...
¡y que lo haga su propia madre!
Eso le da a los varones la licencia absoluta, sin límites,...
de abusar del cuerpo de la mujer,...
porque la tragedia se la traga ella,...
...y se la traga como si fuera un derecho:

My line-by-line interpretation:
But to kill a defenceless child,...
...and to do his own mother! (literal translation, may be a misquote/typo in the source. I'm assuming it means "and for it to be done by his own mother")
That gives men the absolute licence, without limits, to...
...abuse the body of the woman/women...
...because she swallows the tragedy,...
...swallows it as if it were a right.

I think the line "That gives men the absolute licence, without limits, to abuse the body of the woman/women" is what (rightly IMO) has people up in arms, and if he doesn't explicitly mention rape, it's certainly one reasonable interpretation of what he said

the bit in bold in my intewpretation means the actual abortion itself is the licence given to abuse their body.

reasonable hysterical you mean.

why didn't the OP use the word he actually said?.... artistic licence and all that jazz.

disgusting really.

Delirium · 11-01-2012 4:39pm

28064212 wrote: »

I think the line "That gives men the absolute licence, without limits, to abuse the body of the woman/women" is what (rightly IMO) has people up in arms, and if he doesn't explicitly mention rape, it's certainly one reasonable interpretation of what he said

^^

@thebullkf - That's the reasoning behind choosing the title I went with.

thebullkf · 11-01-2012 4:41pm

koth wrote: »

^^

@thebullkf - That's the reasoning behind choosing the title I went with.

so he doesn't mention rape, but you state it as fact that he does

Dades · 11-01-2012 4:41pm

This must be what interpreting the bible must be like...

It doesn't specifically mention rape, but it's heavy enough to suggest it, or at least be condemned for it's fire and brimstone.

Spanish bishop makes inflammatory comments about women who've aborted <title-edited>

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