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View Poll Results: Will you pay the household charge?
Yes 697 24.52%
No 1,235 43.46%
Dont know 309 10.87%
Not Applicable to me 601 21.15%
Voters: 2842. You may not vote on this poll

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04-02-2012, 01:09   #2326
dxhound2005
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Originally Posted by gerryo777 View Post
In the UK council tax also covers your refuse collection for the year and a lot more besides.
Also in the UK renters are liable for the charge, whereas here its the landlord who is liable.
There's an awful lot of people in Ireland renting from local authorities. Why should they not have to pay if the logic of this tax is that it is to pay for local services provided by these same authorities. Do people in rented properties not use these services???
I see in the North vacant properties have been added to the liable list since last October. I would think in future years people in local authority housing here could become liable, or have their rents increased to some extent to make it fairer. The Government probably thought it would provoke a much bigger protest movement if they were included this year. When the charge increases landlords will have to find some way of renegotiating rents.
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04-02-2012, 01:11   #2327
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Originally Posted by seb2012 View Post
They're not sending a notice to pay, so how can they prove you actually know. All you have to say is you never heard about it. You don't watch tv, you don't listen to the radio, you don't read the newspapers - how can they prove otherwise. Until they issue an invoice, you are not legally obliged to pay. They are chancing their arm and they know it. Don't register, and play dumb.
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Originally Posted by boobar View Post
To be fair, there was an announcement some time ago that every household would receive written notification regarding this charge.

To date, I haven't received anything, and I don't know anyone who has.
I think there might have been a link posted saying they are going to send out leaflets on it. Tbh, it's a bit of waste of resources, the type given out about on this thread because unless you haven't left your house, not listened to the radio or watched TV, not gone to the pub, not spoken to friends or family...........................................

Quote:
Originally Posted by boobar
Just found this under FAQ

Who is liable to pay the charge where a property is jointly owned?


Liability falls on all co-owners but payment by any one co-owner discharges the liability of all co-owners.
I remember reading something like. Who do they go after if neither party pays?

I think I read something on that, can't find the link though. Say if one party emigrated, it seemed the remaining party is liable. Seems unfair? Yep, but that is how partnership law usually works.
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04-02-2012, 01:19   #2328
gerryo777
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Originally Posted by boobar View Post
Just found this under FAQ

Who is liable to pay the charge where a property is jointly owned?


Liability falls on all co-owners but payment by any one co-owner discharges the liability of all co-owners.

Does that sort of look like "We don't give 2 fcuks who pays once someone pays"
Thanks boobar.
The point I'm getting at is this, I'm not going to pay this tax, my partner is not going to pay either so I'm just wondering who the government is going to come after to try and collect it?
We are refusing to pay because the only reason this is being brought in is to pay off debts that neither me or her incurred.
People will come on here and say that that isn't the reason this tax is being brought in but even the dogs on the street know that's not the case.
Next year it will probably be €1,000 and then there will be water charges on top of that.
Irishmen and Irishwomen, stand up and be counted!
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04-02-2012, 01:24   #2329
gerryo777
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Originally Posted by dxhound2005 View Post
I see in the North vacant properties have been added to the liable list since last October. I would think in future years people in local authority housing here could become liable, or have their rents increased to some extent to make it fairer. The Government probably thought it would provoke a much bigger protest movement if they were included this year. When the charge increases landlords will have to find some way of renegotiating rents.
Yea, but even looking at the poll on this thread, almost 25% of people are in the 'doesn't apply to me' category. Do these people not use local services?
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04-02-2012, 01:27   #2330
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Originally Posted by gerryo777 View Post
The point I'm getting at is this, I'm not going to pay this tax, my partner is not going to pay either so I'm just wondering who the government is going to come after to try and collect it?
I'd assume the registered owner or owners.

Quote:
We are refusing to pay because the only reason this is being brought in is to pay off debts that neither me or her incurred.
People will come on here and say that that isn't the reason this tax is being brought in but even the dogs on the street know that's not the case.
Next year it will probably be €1,000 and then there will be water charges on top of that.
Irishmen and Irishwomen, stand up and be counted!
Whether this tax is necessary is debatable, the €16 Billion deficit last year and estimated €12/13 Billion one this year, ignoring bank bailouts, isn't! To put that in perspective, we don't even take those figures in with Income Tax receipts.

I've seen this dogs on the street argument, when presented with facts and links showing the bank costs are not as big and not the sole source of our problem, the dogs on the street seem to go very quiet!
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04-02-2012, 01:33   #2331
donalg1
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Originally Posted by gerryo777 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by boobar View Post
Just found this under FAQ

Who is liable to pay the charge where a property is jointly owned?


Liability falls on all co-owners but payment by any one co-owner discharges the liability of all co-owners.

Does that sort of look like "We don't give 2 fcuks who pays once someone pays"
Thanks boobar.
The point I'm getting at is this, I'm not going to pay this tax, my partner is not going to pay either so I'm just wondering who the government is going to come after to try and collect it?
We are refusing to pay because the only reason this is being brought in is to pay off debts that neither me or her incurred.
People will come on here and say that that isn't the reason this tax is being brought in but even the dogs on the street know that's not the case.
Next year it will probably be €1,000 and then there will be water charges on top of that.
Irishmen and Irishwomen, stand up and be counted!
Based on that logic then I assume you are going to stop paying all your taxes?
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04-02-2012, 01:36   #2332
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Confident to take my chances
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04-02-2012, 01:37   #2333
gerryo777
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I'd assume the registered owner or owners.



Whether this tax is necessary is debatable, the €16 Billion deficit last year and estimated €12/13 Billion one this year, ignoring bank bailouts, isn't! To put that in perspective, we don't even take those figures in with Income Tax receipts.

I've seen this dogs on the street argument, when presented with facts and links showing the bank costs are not as big and not the sole source of our problem, the dogs on the street seem to go very quiet!
€31 billion in promissory notes for anglo alone plus interest of approx €14 billion over their lifetime. I heard an economist on Pat Kenny's show saying that it will be costing €14 billion a year to service this debt.
That's just one bank.
We need people to be spending in our economy to create jobs, which in return brings in more taxation revenue.
All these extra taxes and charges have killed our domestic economy and the more they tax us, the less money people have to spend.
We are on a seriously downward spiral so we need to change direction if we're ever to get out of this mess.
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04-02-2012, 01:40   #2334
gerryo777
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Based on that logic then I assume you are going to stop paying all your taxes?
Absolutely not, but on this on, yes.
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04-02-2012, 02:05   #2335
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Originally Posted by gerryo777 View Post
€31 billion in promissory notes for anglo alone plus interest of approx €14 billion over their lifetime. I heard an economist on Pat Kenny's show saying that it will be costing €14 billion a year to service this debt.
That's just one bank.
We need people to be spending in our economy to create jobs, which in return brings in more taxation revenue.
All these extra taxes and charges have killed our domestic economy and the more they tax us, the less money people have to spend.
We are on a seriously downward spiral so we need to change direction if we're ever to get out of this mess.
€14 Billion a year on a banking bail out of about €45 Billion borrowed? Does that not seem rather odd to you?

Economic Incentives: The deficit and “the banks”

That's is a pretty good source, Economist who writes in Indo , but tends to back his stuff up, not these pop Economists on the radio or TV. Not saying he is right, but it's important to read stuff not agreeing with popular opinion.

Look, the bank bail out thing is unfair and very rightly gets huge criticism but saying:

Quote:
We are refusing to pay because the only reason this is being brought in is to pay off debts that neither me or her incurred.
People will come on here and say that that isn't the reason this tax is being brought in but even the dogs on the street know that's not the case.
Our tax revenues don't even cover Welfare and PS pay, never mind stuff like fixing roads, opening hospitals, schools, barracks, that type of stuff. The gap between taxes raised and money spent is just enormous, never mind bank bail out costs.

Debating over what is a right thing to bring in is understandable, I've problems with the choices of FG/Labour, but the figures don't lie. Blaming the banks ignores a huge problem, blaming the IMF/EU the same.
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04-02-2012, 09:38   #2336
squod
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Originally Posted by dxhound2005 View Post
I think I was right about the North anyway.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...310672338.html
Fairplay. Article does go on to explain what they get back though.

Quote:
.....rates are used to accrue a certain amount of money to help pay for refuse collections, bury the dead, fix roads and other services
I'll still be paying for bin collections, paying a contractor to cut the grass in the estate, I'll pay €100 for a visit to the Accident and Emergency if needed, we'll still clean-up our own estate twice a year and unblock gullys and sewers around the estate ourselves.

And I might add, we only got onto the local electoral register for the town by kicking up a fuss!
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04-02-2012, 10:30   #2337
The Quadratic Equation
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Originally Posted by boobar View Post
Just found this under FAQ

Who is liable to pay the charge where a property is jointly owned?


Liability falls on all co-owners but payment by any one co-owner discharges the liability of all co-owners.

Does that sort of look like "We don't give 2 fcuks who pays once someone pays"
Yes, but which one is liable for the fine ?
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04-02-2012, 10:35   #2338
gsxr1
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Yea, but even looking at the poll on this thread, almost 25% of people are in the 'doesn't apply to me' category. Do these people not use local services?
No. They live in Poland and claim rent allowance and dole from there.
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04-02-2012, 11:06   #2339
ninty
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I can say anything about Ireland, but in most countries I've been to - ignorence of the law is not a justification for breaking it.

I've moved to Ireland and nobody has personally informed me of any laws. I didn't get a pamphlet. Nobody has explicitly confirmed or denied that stealing is illegal. And yet, if I steal, I'll be just as guilty.

Is ignorence of the law really a legal defense here?
Why dont the government introduce laws, dont tell anybody about them and then fine people for non compliance, our troubles would be soon sorted
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04-02-2012, 11:14   #2340
dxhound2005
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Why dont the government introduce laws, dont tell anybody about them and then fine people for non compliance, our troubles would be soon sorted
They are not able to enforce all the laws that exist already, otherwise half the pubs in the country would be raided every night for after hours. But if you get caught like these tax evaders ignorance of the law is no defence.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/press/defaulters/index.html
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