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04-10-2011, 12:36   #16
pablohoney87
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BJJ to complex?????
Where were you learning it? The biggest key to bjj is simplicity
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04-10-2011, 16:14   #17
Makikomi
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Originally Posted by Charlie3dan View Post
My style of kung fu is better than your style of kung fu.

You like BJJ, you should do BJJ then.
There's no ultimate art. It doesn't have to be the ultimate art to make it worthwhile for you.

Just keep training.
+1.

This is like the discussions we had years ago in the old IRMAC martial arts forum, it was retarded then (IMO) and its still retarded now.

OP for the last few months I trained exclusively BJJ/sub wrestling and some MMA. My fitness/conditioning was brilliant, I dropped 9kgs and my sharpness & skills in those styles was improving all the time and I was on top of the world.

Went to a judo grading this weekend, in judo you fight for your grades - its exactly like a competition.. Anyway I went expecting to bag a few win's and an easy enough day.

I got SPANKED in every fight, lost six fights in a row and was knocked out with an Osoto Gari in the last fight by a lad half my weight (Luke, Keith Rogers buried me!!).

Does that result mean that judo now beats MMA/BJJ/sub wrestling?.. Not at all, unless its on a judo mat under judo rules.

If I went to a BJJ comp after the same training I've no doubt I'd have done very well, but if I went after training only Judo I'd get spanked.

Just enjoy martial arts, and stop comparing one with the other - its a bit silly, you'll be searching forever in that case.
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05-11-2011, 20:03   #18
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I just watched John Maguire's fight, wow is all I can say...he is absolutely sick!
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05-11-2011, 21:56   #19
paulmclaughlin
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I just watched John Maguire's fight, wow is all I can say...he is absolutely sick!
Where were you one month ago?
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05-11-2011, 22:30   #20
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The only martial arts I have seen compete with BBJ and give it trouble are Greco-Roman wrestling, especially the submission version (I prefer it to BBJ, although BBJ has "borrowed" some of its chokes, arm bars and tri angles), judo, although only high dan grades seem to be able to hold their own against BBJ and Sambo, something I hope to do more of in the future, it has alot of leg locks etc.

Things like Karate, Kung fu etc are left totally exposed by BBJ.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQXlg7DksvY
I cant believe they got their asses kicked so comprehensively. It kind of backs up what I always thought.. that people get brainwashed into their particular style and are totally exposed as a result. Whats' the typical ju jitsu defense to a take down attempt ? The Karate guy seemed kind of slow and was moving back and forth in a straight line. He did look kind of slow even at that. I'd be tempted to do a bit more side stepping (just a millimetre) while looking for an opportunity to punish my opponent if someone rushed me in such a way. However in a busy crowded drunken club atmosphere finding space to move around wouldnt' be easy.

Last edited by psychward; 05-11-2011 at 22:32.
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05-11-2011, 22:41   #21
Michael O Leary
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Originally Posted by cruasder777 View Post
got into wing chung, but found it too complex, why do 5 moves when only one is needed ?
Hi,

Just out of interest, where did you do wing chung? One of the main things about Leung Ting wing chun (Wing Tsun) is that often it is a lot more direct than generic wing chun(g).

For example some wing chun people will apply a Bong Sau or a Tan Sau, etc against a punch and then follow up with a punch, where in Wing Tsun we counter a punch with a punch and the Bong/Tan Sau, etc is secondary if it is used at all. So the movements/positions can be the same but the strategy is different.

Regards,

Michael

Last edited by Michael O Leary; 06-11-2011 at 09:19.
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07-11-2011, 11:00   #22
cruasder777
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Originally Posted by pablohoney87 View Post
BJJ to complex?????
Where were you learning it? The biggest key to bjj is simplicity

BJJ is a superb martial art, BUT, it takes on average 10 yrs to be come a black belt, there are only 50 odd black belts, in the whole of the UK and Ireland, most are from overseas.

It has over 2,000 moves which are nicked from submission wrestling others from sambo, judo, Jap ju-jitsu, vale tudo.

As an example there are more then 40 ways of doing an arm bar from the full guard.


Im not saying people should not study BJJ, but mix it up with sub wrestling/gipsy ju jitsu as well, it will give you an individual style which most will find a real hand full. Under pressure you want it to be as simple but effective.

Last edited by cruasder777; 07-11-2011 at 11:21. Reason: spelling
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07-11-2011, 11:06   #23
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Originally Posted by Michael O Leary View Post
Hi,

Just out of interest, where did you do wing chung? One of the main things about Leung Ting wing chun (Wing Tsun) is that often it is a lot more direct than generic wing chun(g).

For example some wing chun people will apply a Bong Sau or a Tan Sau, etc against a punch and then follow up with a punch, where in Wing Tsun we counter a punch with a punch and the Bong/Tan Sau, etc is secondary if it is used at all. So the movements/positions can be the same but the strategy is different.

Regards,

Michael

I studied Wing Chun locally with a locally with a guy who had 30 years experience.

Because its not full contact, you cant tell how effective the defence technique is in real life.

Its a bit like the way traditional martial arts schools teach knife self defence, what knife attacker in real life leaves their arm in mid air ?

Wing Chun, is great for teaching, focus, discipline and making one feel connected to something powerful, even as a self defence system against the average aggressive guy, but against a grappler, it will get destroyed.

Last edited by cruasder777; 07-11-2011 at 11:30. Reason: spelling
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07-11-2011, 11:10   #24
cruasder777
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Originally Posted by psychward View Post
I cant believe they got their asses kicked so comprehensively. It kind of backs up what I always thought.. that people get brainwashed into their particular style and are totally exposed as a result. Whats' the typical ju jitsu defense to a take down attempt ? The Karate guy seemed kind of slow and was moving back and forth in a straight line. He did look kind of slow even at that. I'd be tempted to do a bit more side stepping (just a millimetre) while looking for an opportunity to punish my opponent if someone rushed me in such a way. However in a busy crowded drunken club atmosphere finding space to move around wouldnt' be easy.

There are various defences against being taken down in BJJ and sub wrestling depends on the attack, from the front the old school wrestling simple two legged take down is very effective from a sub wresting pov.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1OvD...eature=related

Last edited by cruasder777; 07-11-2011 at 11:22. Reason: spelling
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07-11-2011, 11:14   #25
cruasder777
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Originally Posted by slammer187 View Post
I just watched John Maguire's fight, wow is all I can say...he is absolutely sick!

Submission wrestling is where its at for its simplicity, he totally dominated that fight.

Heres the full fight


http://www.mmalinker.com/external/fr...38_fight_video
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07-11-2011, 11:41   #26
EnjoyChoke
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Originally Posted by cruasder777 View Post

As an example there are more then 40 ways of doing an arm bar from the full guard.
Say what?
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07-11-2011, 11:49   #27
cruasder777
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Say what?

grip tease arm bar, octopus guard to arm bar, elbow pressure arm bar, posture leg over arm bar, arm bar off americana, neck crank counter to arm bar, pendulum sweep arm bar, arm pendulum to standard arm bar, arm bar sweep to pendulum sweep to arm bar, follow through arm bar, biceps slicer arm bar, various standing arm bars, decoy sweep to arm bar, ladder up arm bar, fake sweep to arm bar, posture break arm bar, fake sit up to underhook arm bar various types, whizzer grip to knee pressure arm bar,..............

Shall I go on ?
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07-11-2011, 11:51   #28
OLDMAN1
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Originally Posted by cruasder777 View Post
I studied Wing Chun locally with a locally with a guy who had 30 years experience.

Because its not full contact, you cant tell how effective the defence technique is in real life.
YES IT IS
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07-11-2011, 12:08   #29
EnjoyChoke
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Originally Posted by cruasder777 View Post
grip tease arm bar, octopus guard to arm bar, elbow pressure arm bar, posture leg over arm bar, arm bar off americana, neck crank counter to arm bar, pendulum sweep arm bar, arm pendulum to standard arm bar, arm bar sweep to pendulum sweep to arm bar, follow through arm bar, biceps slicer arm bar, various standing arm bars, decoy sweep to arm bar, ladder up arm bar, fake sweep to arm bar, posture break arm bar, fake sit up to underhook arm bar various types, whizzer grip to knee pressure arm bar,..............

Shall I go on ?
Is the armbar not executed in almost exactly the same way, off the setups you've just listed?
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07-11-2011, 12:14   #30
cruasder777
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YES IT IS

Lol, students practice by throwing fake punches, usually leaving their arm in the air, if thats full contact Im a China man.

If it was full contact its weakness against grapplers would have been discovered years ago.

Like Karate it was promoted by Hollywood cause it looks great on film.

I bought into the bs I read in martial arts mags as a kid, picture scenarios of fight seqences where exotic MA always won, but was never anything like a street fight.

Secret moves, ninjas and other bs, taught by "professors" who had never had a real fight in their lives.

The reason we produce so few decent MMA fighters is cause we were sold this BS for years.

Effective and genuine martial arts like submission wrestling were not glam enough, thus they were never promoted, it will take years to catch up.

At least many have seen through the BS.

Last edited by cruasder777; 07-11-2011 at 12:20. Reason: spelling
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