Of interest to Civil Defence members.

#1 · 14-07-2011 9:51am #1

http://www.civildefence.ie/cdweb.nsf/documents/B71C9F0609FE7C8F802578CC002E70C0

Interesting suggestion that the Civil Defence should be retaken under the wing again so to speak of the DOD. Good or bad thing I wonder..An exercise in rationalization ie. cutbacks or is it a positive move for the organisation.

Any thoughts out there?

flazio · 15-07-2011 10:02am

To be honest I thought we never stopped answering to the minister of Defence.
Under the board the Civil Defence has really come along leaps and bounds, especially the appearance of the organisation in the public eye, gone are the yellow 'denims' and in their place is a professional, well presented look that has really boosted the image of the organisation. The new PHECC certification levels have also helped to make sure we are all singing from the same hymn sheet when it comes to casualty care, would somthing like that matter to the DoD?
Will the DoD maintain these high standards? I'm not so sure.

Mckin · 15-07-2011 8:18pm

I agree with Flazio, In my 10 years serving I have seen major differences at all levels however many CD members didn't know we worked under the board. Tbh I cant see it changing all that much however change would be welcomed in some aspects. With regard to the DoD maintaining high standards....I think we'l be fending for ourselves there. This would also be welcome in my opinion as long as we are allowed to work for the good of the organisation and its troops.

Sierra Oscar · 16-07-2011 12:29pm

I see the CD website is now down, is this all part and parcel of the centralization program being rigorously pursued by Minister Shatter? :rolleyes:

In anycase I do believe that the Civil Defence will down the line suffer heavily as a result of this decision. Over the last number of years the Department of Defence has had a tough job keeping its own house in order and by no means will things get easier for the Department following the next two budgets. I can see the Department not being too interested in developing CD in the midst of the crisis within the department and furthermore you can now be rest assured that the department will distribute funding cuts to CD following the budget - CD has been lucky in the sense that it has avoided stringent funding cuts to date.

I know a lot of people viewed the CD board with contempt - but the fact of the matter is that since the enactment of the Civil Defence Act the entire organization has come on leaps and bounds. The entire organization is much more professional these days.

On a sidenote, it is blatantly apparent that Alan Shatter is one of the most domineering Ministers that we have seen in decades. It was his idea to merge the Department of Justice with the Department of Defence and he is trying to extend his sphere of influence over the judiciary amongst many many other things. The move to abolish the CD board is probably just another one of these steps to satisfy Shatters desire to have direct control over everything he comes in contact with.

civdef · 16-07-2011 3:28pm

The way the board was set up, the vast majority of it's funding was spent on the administrative staff. The breakdown of 30 staff was something like 1-2 instructors, 1 technical officer, the rest admin.

In terms of training, the amount of training on offer has continued to drop year on year. In recent years, the amounts of equipment / vehicles being issued has dropped dramatically.

Sierra Oscar · 16-07-2011 6:37pm

civdef wrote: »

The way the board was set up, the vast majority of it's funding was spent on the administrative staff. The breakdown of 30 staff was something like 1-2 instructors, 1 technical officer, the rest admin.

In terms of training, the amount of training on offer has continued to drop year on year. In recent years, the amounts of equipment / vehicles being issued has dropped dramatically.

Repealing the Civil Defence Act will not necessarily rectify the problem in the slightest.

Mckin · 16-07-2011 9:39pm

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Repealing the Civil Defence Act will not necessarily rectify the problem in the slightest.

Im inclined to agree. However as mentioned by Civildef the training at national level has continued to drop but iv noticed county level training has increased and counties are purchasing their own equipment and vehicles to what they want/need rather than what they are given.

I personally am undecided on this change in management so only time will tell.

Sierra Oscar · 24-07-2011 2:34am

Dara Calleary will be tabling a question to the Minister for Defence in relation to this, hopefully some light will be shed on what exactly will replace the Civil Defence Act.

iceage · 25-07-2011 7:39pm

Is there a time frame for that to take place Sierra Oscar?

iceage · 07-08-2011 3:56pm

Seems not a lot to change by all accounts...

http://www.civildefence.ie/cdweb.nsf/documents/D78F30F2A22B3D8F802578D300479BC3

brotherrabbit · 17-10-2011 9:42pm

Well folks,
Im new to this forum and to he civil defence..( only joined 4 weeks ago )
Just curious to what all this talk of abolishing the board means and who will it effect members?

Mckin · 17-10-2011 10:17pm

Your welcome Brotherrabbit on both counts... About the board disbanding... TBH mate I think its an overall case of wait and see. The DoD is up in arms at the minute financially so I doubt there are too many happy people taking on the CD and some RDF people are still not happy CD was used in the major flood/rescue op's and not them. Its hard to see how its gonna effect us/ if it will effect us. Theres plenty rumours flying about but in the end they are only rumors.

Fuinseog · 19-10-2011 4:43pm

I find it odd in places like Galway that had major flooding did not use the RDF at all. they have several rucks and men at their disposal. maybe it was a pay issue?

Mckin · 19-10-2011 7:49pm

The PDF were dispatched in from Athlone to the Balinasloe Area and lads were sent from the Galway City barracks to other parts. It may have been pay or political but from what i seen on the ground myself, they just werent needed (In Ballinasloe anyway). If the RDF had been called in it may have led to H&S issues due to the increased traffic volume on the roads, I dont know TBH thats just my opinion. Their help would have been appreciated absolutley but i dont know how the powers that be thought it.

anyone_local · 20-10-2011 7:20pm

Mckin wrote: »

Your welcome Brotherrabbit on both counts... About the board disbanding... TBH mate I think its an overall case of wait and see. The DoD is up in arms at the minute financially so I doubt there are too many happy people taking on the CD and some RDF people are still not happy CD was used in the major flood/rescue op's and not them. Its hard to see how its gonna effect us/ if it will effect us. Theres plenty rumours flying about but in the end they are only rumors.

At the end of the day the local civil defence unit is at the beck and call of the CDO, and ultimately Director of services and County/City manager. Up to them if they want them utilised. added to that is the fact Civil Defence will form part of a councils major emergency plan. Most flood events will probably see at least part of this plan activated. dont know about the reserves but for the army to be involved a request has to be made to the DOD, more than likely the same for the reserves. or at least to the local commander

Mckin · 20-10-2011 8:23pm

Absolutely agree. I have noticed over the past few years alot more people are becoming dual members but this is frowned upon by alot of higher up's particularly in the RDF. The older higher ups anyway with the newer guys/Girls being open to the idea. I have seen the argument from both sides, CD and RDF, and as I stated already the RDF were just not needed. As regards the Major emergency plan, Im sure the Local DF be it RDF or PDF have a part to play in the majority of plans but its a decision higher up who gets the first call.

22-10-2011 7:35am

Hmmm, first of all as a witness to the floods in Ballinasloe I'd doubt if the local CD would have been able to do the job at hand without the trucks & boats provided by the local DF units, and second I think the logic on who would get called out first would be similar to the logic of CD's calling out.

Big Emergency:
First, regular emergency services

Big Emergency gives so much work that Regulars swamped:

Reserve Emergency Service, which is what Civil Defence's primary role is, is called in.

Big Emergency is so big heavy equipment/ lots of manpower needed.

Do you call the guys getting paid to stay in a barracks or do you call out the guys doing a normal job already to pay him while also paying the guy who stays in the barracks?

Unfortunately, the RDF is fourth on the list. Permanent soldiers are in barracks day in day out at the ready for national crises. Just as CD don't get a call until the Full-Time Emergency Services are swamped with work, so too the RDF don't get called until the PDF are swamped with work. (An example would be the Foot & Mouth Border Security back in the 90s. If I recall correctly that was a job that the RDF did.)

Of interest to Civil Defence members.

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