Fault with new car - what are my rights?

McSpud · 27-05-2011 08:53PM #1

I collected new car today but I was unable to take for a drive until this evening (I live very close to dealer). It has developed a fault less 1 kms from home so I need to bring it back to the (VW) dealer tomorrow. If it requires a significant parts replacement what are my rights? Hopefully I am being premature but at what stage would I be entitled to a new replacement?

Delancey · 27-05-2011 09:04PM

What car ? Details of fault ?

-Corkie- · 27-05-2011 09:05PM

Is it brand new??

McSpud · 30-05-2011 04:19PM

Brand new Golf TSI. fault developed on first days after a few kms. Service centre have checked it out & unless I misunderstood needs replacement turbo (I feared this might be the case) due to manufacturer fault.

I think i've answered my own now question as clearly its defective so I am sure full refund is available now.

coylemj · 30-05-2011 04:25PM

McSpud wrote: »

I think i've answered my own now question as clearly its defective so I am sure full refund is available now.

They will replace the defective part and claim the cost of the parts and labour back from VW. If by 'refund' you mean they will take the car back and give you a full refund i.e. give you your money back, dream on.

Twin-go · 30-05-2011 04:45PM

coylemj wrote: »

They will replace the defective part and claim the cost of the parts and labour back from VW. If by 'refund' you mean they will take the car back and give you a full refund i.e. give you your money back, dream on.

The Dealer will under the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act 1980 be in their rights to first offer a repair then if that does not work a replacement. A refund would be the last resort.

godtabh · 30-05-2011 04:54PM

I remember a mate of mine bought a brand new Saab 93 in 2004/2005 (cant remember the year but think it was 2005).

He drove it 10km from a certain dealer in Sandyford up the M50 heading northbound.

All the electronics in the car went while in the right hand land during peak rush hour traffic. Anything controlled by electrics would not operate.

Saab want the car for a couple of weeks to figure the problem and fix it. He kicked up an almighty fuss and get a different car with the same specs (all in top of the line aero) plus about a grand compo.

Dont settle for we are sorry here is your broken car back. Keep pushing but dont expect to get a full refund.

Anan1 · 30-05-2011 06:13PM

Twin-go wrote: »

The Dealer will under the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act 1980 be in their rights to first offer a repair then if that does not work a replacement. A refund would be the last resort.

I was under the impression that the Sale of Goods Act entitled the consumer to a refund, repair, or replacement, at the consumer's discretion? http://www.consumerassociation.ie/rights_retailers.html#not_our_Fault

McSpud · 30-05-2011 06:51PM

I haven't approved the repairs yet & waiting until tomorrow to speak to the Sales department. I don't want to be rushed into a decision...

I think a refund will be difficult so i'd say I am looking at new replacement (I already had to wait something like 13 weeks for this car) or repair. If its repair I feel will need to get significant concessions on extended warranty & others. If I push for replacement VW would have to take a big hit on reselling the car.

andyseadog · 30-05-2011 07:02PM

i hated having customers like this.

if you want a refund you are absolutely pissing into the wind, and the dealer will be much less likely to be helpful if you keep pushing for something that is, to them, virtually impossible for various reasons.

when a car (even one with delivery mileage) develops a fault (maunfacturing faults can and do occur on a regular basis with all manufacturers) the dealer has 3 chances to rectify the fault before you can get consumer rights etc involved.

VW i asume should have a very good parts network so i asume given 2 days they could successfully diagnose and rectify your problem with ease while offering you a courtesy car in the meantime.

there will be no rushing into things or mulling your options, the above is what will happen. seen it before countless times, i've actually seen cases where the car was unable to be repaired through parts unavailability within the acceptable timeframe and the manufacturer has been prepared to offer another brand new car before they offer a refund.

-Corkie- · 30-05-2011 07:03PM

McSpud wrote: »

I haven't approved the repairs yet & waiting until tomorrow to speak to the Sales department. I don't want to be rushed into a decision...

I think a refund will be difficult so i'd say I am looking at new replacement (I already had to wait something like 13 weeks for this car) or repair. If its repair I feel will need to get significant concessions on extended warranty & others. If I push for replacement VW would have to take a big hit on reselling the car.

I would be fairly miffed after paying out my hard earned cash on a brand new motor and then it fails within a few Kms. I hope they look after you.

coolbeans · 30-05-2011 07:07PM

Why doesn't the OP just let the dealer repair the car and ask for a replacement in the meantime? It's just a fault that will be rectified, I don't see why you need to stress or ask for a refund. Things go wrong, it'll be fixed with new parts and will therefore be like new as before. What's the problem?

andyseadog · 30-05-2011 07:12PM

coolbeans wrote: »

Why doesn't the OP just let the dealer repair the car and ask for a replacement in the meantime? It's just a fault that will be rectified, I don't see why you need to stress or ask for a refund. Things go wrong, it'll be fixed with new parts and will therefore be like new as before. What's the problem?

exactly.

stuff like this happens every day, in every dealer in the country. it wasn't intentional and they will be only too happy to rectify this a.s.a.p. they have a reputation to keep up.

Anan1 · 30-05-2011 07:15PM

andyseadog wrote: »

when a car (even one with delivery mileage) develops a fault (maunfacturing faults can and do occur on a regular basis with all manufacturers) the dealer has 3 chances to rectify the fault before you can get consumer rights etc involved.

Any chance of a source for this?

slimjimmc · 30-05-2011 07:18PM

Anan1 wrote: »

I was under the impression that the Sale of Goods Act entitled the consumer to a refund, repair, or replacement, at the consumer's discretion? http://www.consumerassociation.ie/rights_retailers.html#not_our_Fault

No.
It's at the consumer's discretion to request a preferred option.
It's at the retailer's discretion to offer either of the three.
It's at the consumer's discretion to to accept or reject the retailer's offer and request their preferred option.
It's at the retailer's discretion to to accept or reject the consumer's request and continue offering the same.

It's a process of negotiation. If no middle ground can be agreed the consumer can seek a judgement from the S.C.C. In making their judgement the S.C.C. will consider whether either party's offer/demand is reasonable or unreasonable.

andyseadog · 30-05-2011 07:22PM

Anan1 wrote: »

Any chance of a source for this?

i'm afraid not, it what i was told from management at the last main dealer i worked for that that was the stance on things. it could be nonsense but it makes good sense.

Anan1 · 30-05-2011 07:25PM

slimjimmc wrote: »

No.
It's at the consumer's discretion to request a preferred option.
It's at the retailer's discretion to offer either of the three.
It's at the consumer's discretion to to accept or reject the retailer's offer and request their preferred option.
It's at the retailer's discretion to to accept or reject the consumer's request and continue offering the same.

It's a process of negotiation. If no middle ground can be agreed the consumer can seek a judgement from the S.C.C. In making their judgement the S.C.C. will consider whether either party's offer/demand is reasonable or unreasonable.

This seems to flatly contradict the info in the Consumer Association website I linked to, though?

Max Power1 · 30-05-2011 07:32PM

Anan1 wrote: »

This seems to flatly contradict the info in the Consumer Association website I linked to, though?

slimjimmc is correct.

If the CAI website is not in agreement with his post, someone should really tell them they are wrong.

Thats the problem with consumer websites, they are only offering someone's opinion of a law/act, and masquerading it as "FACT"

Anan1 · 30-05-2011 07:42PM

Max Power1 wrote: »

slimjimmc is correct.

If the CAI website is not in agreement with his post, someone should really tell them they are wrong.

Thats the problem with consumer websites, they are only offering someone's opinion of a law/act, and masquerading it as "FACT"

Can anyone link to a trustworthy source, so?

jaffa20 · 30-05-2011 07:55PM

Hmm, it's a grey area but the customer doesn't get to choose between a refund/repair/replacement. It's really up to the retailer and if the customer rejects a repair, then looks like court is the only option.

http://www.consumerconnect.ie/eng/Hot_Topics/FAQs/Faulty-goods/

Ghost Train · 30-05-2011 08:03PM

Anan1 wrote: »

Can anyone link to a trustworthy source, so?

This might be better

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/consumer_protection/consumer_rights/

Says this on first section

It is important to note that there are no hard and fast rules as to which remedy you should be entitled to. When seeking redress for problems with goods or services the circumstances of each individual case must be taken into account.

The National Consumer Agency (NCA) replaced the Office of the Director of Consumer Affairs (ODCA) in May 2007. It is the statutory office with responsibility for providing advice and information to consumers on their rights. In addition, the NCA is responsible for the enforcement of a wide range of consumer protection laws. The NCA does not intervene or become involved in individual issues or disputes between consumers and sellers of goods or services providers. The NCA can however, advise you if you have a particular consumer problem.

This from NCA website
http://www.nca.ie/eng/Business_Zone/Guides/Full%20List/Sale%20of%20Goods.html

whippet · 30-05-2011 08:08PM

why is anyone really debating the merits of what the customer might want etc .. the reality is they will get their new car back with a brand new turbo and a big apology from the dealer .. probably a free first service as a good will gesture.

The reality is that no dealer in their right mind will be in a position to offer a refund or a new car as a replacement ... it's just not going to happen.

Should the OP want a refund, the Small Claims Court will not be available as a course of action as I am guessing the refund will be in the region of 20k.

therefore you will have to be prepared to fork out big bucks and go down the proper legal route. I wouldn't imagine any legal brief will be willing to do this on a 'no win - no fee' basis as the chances of winning are very much minimal.

Don't waste you time looking for recourse you are not going to get and make sure you get a free service and something nice from the Accessories brochure as a gesture of goodwill.

R.O.R · 30-05-2011 08:15PM

Plus - don't forget that VWGI aint going to be really that bothered with one unhappy customer. Their cars have that magic badge on the front that make people go batsh1t crazy to buy them, therefore they can give decidedly average customer service and it makes no difference at all.

Hopefully the OP will be looked after by the supplying dealer.

Henree · 30-05-2011 08:22PM

andyseadog wrote: »

i hated having customers like this.

if you want a refund you are absolutely pissing into the wind, and the dealer will be much less likely to be helpful if you keep pushing for something that is, to them, virtually impossible for various reasons.

when a car (even one with delivery mileage) develops a fault (maunfacturing faults can and do occur on a regular basis with all manufacturers) the dealer has 3 chances to rectify the fault before you can get consumer rights etc involved.

VW i asume should have a very good parts network so i asume given 2 days they could successfully diagnose and rectify your problem with ease while offering you a courtesy car in the meantime.

there will be no rushing into things or mulling your options, the above is what will happen. seen it before countless times, i've actually seen cases where the car was unable to be repaired through parts unavailability within the acceptable timeframe and the manufacturer has been prepared to offer another brand new car before they offer a refund.

"i hated having customers like this", What do you mean? I presume you are in car sales? Very arrogant, I am in sales too but realise that this man has handed over a large sum of money for a car. Try be more empathetic. I, unlike you appreciate every customer for spending their hard earned money to buy a car off me.

Voodoomelon · 30-05-2011 08:26PM

It has a defective turbo from the factory and needs to be replaced, and the customer wants a refund for the whole car?

I hate customers like this too. Infuriatingly illogical.

Henree · 30-05-2011 08:29PM

Voodoomelon wrote: »

It has a defective turbo from the factory and needs to be replaced, and the customer wants a refund for the whole car?

I hate customers like this too. Infuriatingly illogical.

I know that, you know that, but if you were in his position before you were in the trade, you would be the same, worried about the next thing to go wrong.

Max Power1 · 30-05-2011 08:31PM

Voodoomelon wrote: »

It has a defective turbo from the factory and needs to be replaced, and the customer wants a refund for the whole car?

I hate customers like this too. Infuriatingly illogical.

The guts of 20k+ is a lot to pay oout, you'd expect trouble free motoring.

If it were me I'd be worried i'd got a dud, and what was next to fail (probably just outside of warranty)

McSpud · 30-05-2011 08:39PM

Thanks for all the comments above.

Refund is off the table & I don't believe it is on my interest.

The Replace or Repair choice seems from what I read to be mine. I don't think the law is separate for cars. I don't see this as a warranty issue as fault developed after less than 2km so its unsuitable for sale. If I had driven it longer on the day of collection i'd have noticed within a few minutes. If it was something small that was fixed today there would be no debate. Its obvious the distributer will not want to accept replacement.

I might yet accept repair but I am concerned that I taking a car which may have other problems in the future. There are probably ways that can be rectified but will have to see. I still wonder how the problem was not found beforehand.

cabrwab · 30-05-2011 08:40PM

Funnily enough i know somebody who successfully held out and got a full refund from a dealer, during the better times, after going down the legal route, they accepted there attempts at repairing the car.
It kept not being right.

Id tell the garage i want to be looked after a free service as a good will gesture?!!! Really Expensive couple of miles for the OP.

OP is dragging his heals alright i would get it repaired as soon as possible, but id imagine the OPs confidence is completely gone in the car and they are not happy with it.

Voodoomelon · 30-05-2011 08:40PM

Henree wrote: »

I know that, you know that, but if you were in his position before you were in the trade, you would be the same, worried about the next thing to go wrong.

I'm not even in the car trade, I am in retail and the same things apply across the board. Why would you have reason to believe something else would go wrong? Its one part, if its replaced it has no bearing on the rest of the car.

Its a somewhat childish attitude of stamping feet and demanding ridiculous things and I see it all the time, its like they never even wanted that product in the first place!? If I had a new car on order and some part that makes up a tiny % of the value of the car is defective, I wouldn't go looking for a refund and waltzing back out onto the street, id want my car fixed! If the dealer offers a courtesy car and maybe a free service as good will, happy days, whats the problem?

A refund or replacement, this isn't a jumper with a loose thread for god sake.

Henree · 30-05-2011 08:43PM

Voodoomelon wrote: »

I'm not even in the car trade, I am in retail and the same things apply across the board. Why would you have reason to believe something else would go wrong? Its one part, if its replaced it has no bearing on the rest of the car.

Its a somewhat childish attitude of stamping feet and demanding ridiculous things and I see it all the time, its like they never even wanted that product in the first place!? If I had a new car on order and some part that makes up a tiny % of the value of the car is defective, I wouldn't go looking for a refund and waltzing back out onto the street, id want my car fixed! If the dealer offers a courtesy car and maybe a free service as good will, happy days, whats the problem?

A refund or replacement, this isn't a jumper with a loose thread for god sake.

ok, you right

Fault with new car - what are my rights?

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