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Power Supplies

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  • 14-05-2011 12:47am
    #1
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 4,281 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    I've noticed a lot of misinformation being spread about power supplies, so I'm going to try and give a quick run through of what you need and don't need.

    First of all, here are some useful links:
    http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-radeon-power,2122.html
    http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDFAQs

    One of the most important properties of a PSU is the 12V rail, more so than its rated Wattage. In essence, this is the 'true' wattage of the PSU as most modern components will be drawing their power for their, especially the Graphics card. Using Power = Current X Voltage you can work out how much current should be specified for the 12V Rail. For example, a 500W PSU with 25A on the 12V Rail is essentially only a 25x12= 300W PSU. Most good quality PSUs will have at least 90% of their rated output on the 12V rail.

    So how much power do you actually need for a system? Well for a typical system with 2 RAM modules, a single mechanical HD, a DVD drive and a few case fans you are looking at roughly 40-60W excluding the CPU and GPU.

    For the CPU under maximum load:
    Phenom II X4 @ 4GHz ~140W
    i5-2500k @ 4.5GHz ~ 100W
    i5-2500 ~ 60W

    For GPUs it varies wildly, so look a review at xbitlabs.com to get an idea.

    Where does that leave us? Well for an i5-2500k OC + 560Ti for example, it leaves you at 60W (System) + 100W (CPU) + 160W (GPU) = 320W. Now, a PSU operates best when its between 65% and 85% of its full load. For example, a good 450W PSU would be operating at ~70% under the largest load that this system could pull.

    Here's where some of the misinformation pops up:
    The entire decent PC will consume around 350W, so factoring in 80% efficiency as a rough figure, requires around a 450W PSU at LEAST.

    This is not how efficiency works. Yes, if you measured the power draw from the socket of the computer you would see 450W being drawn. HOWEVER PSUs are rated for what they can supply to the computer, not for what they draw from the socket. A 350W PSU can draw 440W and still function fine, in fact thats what its supposed to do.

    As a quick reference, this chart is useful:
    http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph4239/36072.png

    This is the full system power consumption. Ideally you would want a PSU that would put the PSU at ~75% load, so multiply the figures there by 1.25 to get an idea of what sort of PSU you want.

    Good PSUs to look out for would be:

    Antec Earthwatts
    Antec TruePower
    Seasonic S12II
    Seasonic X
    Corsair TX
    Corsair VX
    Corsair HX
    XFX Core Pro
    SuperFlower Amazon
    SuperFlower Golden Green

    There are a few others, but thats a pretty good start.


«1

Comments

  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 18,377 Mod ✭✭✭✭Solitaire


    The load level you should shoot for is 50% of the total 12V output. What constitutes load is a bit trickier - especially for gaming systems. You need to research high-to-maximum power consumption at your desired clock speed (OCing consumes some extra power, overvolting as well consumes a lot more power!) for your current/desired CPU and all GPUs. Don't use results derived from Crysis or torture tests like OCCT/Perestroika, FurMark or IBT/Linpack to provide the "average load" figure for this as they can actually drive hardware past normal thermal specs and we're not looking for worst-case figures here. The latest 3DMark with some lower-priority protein folding in the background to eat spare CPU cycles gives "normal" gaming consumption with a slightly-pessimistic CPU power spec and is what a gaming system needs to match to the 50% mark. Then so long as the above torture tests pass below the 90% mark (hugely unlikely) you're golden. Crysis may gobble juice but it isn't the only game you play so don't sweat it if reviews suggest it would push you to the 60-70% mark. Folders need to pay attention to the CPU power usage a bit more than other gamers as few games push the CPU to 100% consistently let alone breaking point; OCCT on the other hand just isn't normal usage.

    Unless you have a Gigabyte Odin GT you have to get all those figures off the web to boot :o Xbit Labs is the best; I've been able to confirm their findings with my Odin's integrated DVMs. There are other resources out there but they tend to be less accurate or contradict themselves at times.

    Multi-rail PSUs are not the work of the Devil. Don't let flim-flammery confuse you about that. The only time there's an issue is if you tried to run a HDD-heavy server on an older multi-rail PSU that tries to lump all system power from fans and drives, the mobo, the first 75W of each GPU and most and sometimes even all the CPU consumption on just one ~200W rail. Then when the HDDs all spun up together at startup you could trip the OCP and crash out before the OS finished booting :o

    Superflower (and the NZXT and KingWin rebadges) are on top form. Their Gold and Platinum units are still very pricey AFAIK, but they're the best on the market.

    At the moment the most contentious niche is the low end gaming-grade, as it is hugely 12V-based and some awful PSUs from otherwise-reputable names have been doing the rounds, based on late Pentium 3 (i.e. 5V-based) designs with a reinforced 12V rail. The small 3.3V/5V load on such systems is insufficient to keep the 12V rail at 12V, or even 11V while gaming! :eek:

    The revamped Cougar A-series are good budget units AFAIK, the 350W and 400W units actually look to be underrated!

    The Corsair CX500/600 are also decent enough for the price AFAIK, its only the CX430 which sucks in a truly astonishingly vile way :o

    IIRC most of the more powerful Coolermaster units are decent, but don't touch GX/HX units or older ones under 700W with a bargepole.

    be quiet! and Antec's Basiq units are average, but will do in a pinch.

    Avoid the really cheap basic Superflower units - only get the Amazon units or better. Avoid Jersey/RaidMax/ChiefTec/DiabloTek/Xilence and most Xigmatek PSUs like the plague! :o Avoid anything under €30 like it has freakin' Ebola! :eek:


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,727 ✭✭✭darego


    what do you think about xfx psus solitaire mate? i got this 750 watt
    http://www2.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=42451&agid=1630

    for this system from hws on friday
    http://www.speedyshare.com/files/28480708/pc.JPG


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 31 Static Jak


    I'm getting my GTX 560 in a few days. My PSU (Module) has 2 places for 6 Pin PCI-E Power Connections (another two for 8 pin aswell) that I should be able to connect to the card.
    Except I don't have the two cables. I have looked everywhere at this point and can't find them. I've hit a brick wall at this point.
    Any ideas where I could find 2 at this point?


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 4,281 Mod ✭✭✭✭deconduo


    @darego

    Yes thats a really good PSU and great value for money. It will let you SLI your 560 Ti as well in the future.
    Static Jak wrote: »
    I'm getting my GTX 560 in a few days. My PSU (Module) has 2 places for 6 Pin PCI-E Power Connections (another two for 8 pin aswell) that I should be able to connect to the card.
    Except I don't have the two cables. I have looked everywhere at this point and can't find them. I've hit a brick wall at this point.
    Any ideas where I could find 2 at this point?

    Do you mean its a modular PSU and you don't have the cables? Or that you need a PCI-E to Molex connector? What model PSU is it?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 31 Static Jak


    deconduo wrote: »
    @darego

    Yes thats a really good PSU and great value for money. It will let you SLI your 560 Ti as well in the future.



    Do you mean its a modular PSU and you don't have the cables? Or that you need a PCI-E to Molex connector? What model PSU is it?
    That my PSU is modular and I don't have the cables.

    The PCI-E to Molex are the usual ones that come with the Cards right? I believe the card will have two with it. From what I've seen anyway.

    The PSU is an EVO 700watt Micro ATX.


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  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 4,281 Mod ✭✭✭✭deconduo


    Unfortunately the modular cables are usually unique to each model, or at least each brand. That PSU doesn't look great though, £20 for a 700W PSU doesn't inspire me with confidence.

    Is it this one:
    http://www.envizage.com/products/power-supplies-evo-labs/psevo-700w-12cm-evo-labs-700w-atx-silent-pc-power-supply-unit.html


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 31 Static Jak


    deconduo wrote: »
    Unfortunately the modular cables are usually unique to each model, or at least each brand. That PSU doesn't look great though, £20 for a 700W PSU doesn't inspire me with confidence.

    Is it this one:
    http://www.envizage.com/products/power-supplies-evo-labs/psevo-700w-12cm-evo-labs-700w-atx-silent-pc-power-supply-unit.html
    Nah, that definitely isn't it.
    So, any ideas outside of having to buy a new PSU?


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,076 Mod ✭✭✭✭marco_polo


    This is amusing read, tomshardware bought 1670W worth of power suplies (three altogether) for $60, burning up the 750W one at 50% load.

    http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/low-cost-psu-pc-power-supply,2862.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,710 ✭✭✭Monotype




  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 18,377 Mod ✭✭✭✭Solitaire


    The lowest of the low was a European label called Hardwaremania24, targeted at OEM PCs. While still in standby mode, the PSU heated to about 176 degrees Fahrenheit, spent the next six hours billowing smoke, and finally made what might be described as a trumpeting sound before dying. The host computer was never even turned on.

    lol.gif


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,002 ✭✭✭Komplett-Tech: Ryan


    darego wrote: »
    what do you think about xfx psus solitaire mate? i got this 750 watt
    http://www2.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=42451&agid=1630

    for this system from hws on friday
    http://www.speedyshare.com/files/28480708/pc.JPG

    Personally i would never touch anything by a budget brand such as XFX. There is a reason we stopped stocking them... a 80% return rate! Any of the Corsair psu's, apart from the 430 are absolutely spot on. Remember though, corsair often under-rate their PSU, there is usually 20% more in them over what is advertised. So a 1Kw psu is actually a 1.2Kw psu.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 4,281 Mod ✭✭✭✭deconduo


    Personally i would never touch anything by a budget brand such as XFX. There is a reason we stopped stocking them... a 80% return rate! Any of the Corsair psu's, apart from the 430 are absolutely spot on. Remember though, corsair often under-rate their PSU, there is usually 20% more in them over what is advertised. So a 1Kw psu is actually a 1.2Kw psu.

    Their new Core Pro Series are actually quite good, though the 450W and 550W models do have a small problem with 12V regulation under heavy loads. Apart from that, they perform quite well.

    http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=216
    http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/XFX-PRO-750-W-Power-Supply-Review/1182


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,710 ✭✭✭Monotype


    What were returned by XFX? PSUs or GPUs/motherboards etc? I never returned my XFX 7900GT I bought from komplett!


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,500 ✭✭✭✭Varik


    Have a xfx 7800gtx that is over 6 years old and still works.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,399 ✭✭✭dwighet


    Well lads while were on the subject of power supplies..
    I will be changing my monitor to a 1200 res and adding another 6970(xfire) and a ssd to my kit soon and will be in need of a decent psu...Now my budget is around 150e for the psu give or take a score...

    Im currently running 7 fans,i5 760 oced @ 4.2 ghz and a f3 hdd 1 gig..

    What ye think I should get??


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,179 ✭✭✭Serephucus


    What's your current PSU?


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 4,281 Mod ✭✭✭✭deconduo


    SuperFlower Amazon 800W would do you fine:

    http://www1.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=30071&agid=1630

    Only problem is the €30 shipping from HWVS. However you can offset that by ordering the other parts from there as well.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,727 ✭✭✭darego


    Personally i would never touch anything by a budget brand such as XFX. There is a reason we stopped stocking them... a 80% return rate! Any of the Corsair psu's, apart from the 430 are absolutely spot on. Remember though, corsair often under-rate their PSU, there is usually 20% more in them over what is advertised. So a 1Kw psu is actually a 1.2Kw psu.

    damn, too late :( order should be here on monday!


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 4,281 Mod ✭✭✭✭deconduo


    darego wrote: »
    damn, too late :( order should be here on monday!

    Don't worry, as I said the Core Pro series are good quality. You should have no problems with them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,727 ✭✭✭darego


    good stuff! :D


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,399 ✭✭✭dwighet


    Serephucus wrote: »
    What's your current PSU?

    its a xilence 750.... I know its a piece of poo... dont be giving out now;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,399 ✭✭✭dwighet


    deconduo wrote: »
    SuperFlower Amazon 800W would do you fine:

    http://www1.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=30071&agid=1630

    Only problem is the €30 shipping from HWVS. However you can offset that by ordering the other parts from there as well.

    Thats excacly what I was thinking of doing...;)
    Is that a modular psu....Im a fussy fecker..


  • Registered Users Posts: 170 ✭✭seyeM


    Personally i would never touch anything by a budget brand such as XFX. There is a reason we stopped stocking them... a 80% return rate! Any of the Corsair psu's, apart from the 430 are absolutely spot on. Remember though, corsair often under-rate their PSU, there is usually 20% more in them over what is advertised. So a 1Kw psu is actually a 1.2Kw psu.

    The XFX PSUs are reported to be among the best value PSUs available today. They're rebranded Seasonic units, just like the Corsairs.

    As a side note, it doesn't seem like Komplett stocks much of anything anymore :pac:


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 4,281 Mod ✭✭✭✭deconduo


    dwighet wrote: »
    Thats excacly what I was thinking of doing...;)
    Is that a modular psu....Im a fussy fecker..

    Nah its not unfortunately. You pay a premium for modular these days :(

    http://www1.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=33065&agid=1630
    http://www1.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=28060&agid=1630

    The Golden Green is a better PSU, but the Corsair has a longer warranty.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,983 ✭✭✭Tea_Bag


    Lads quick question, Will an 850W 80+ eff PSU cope with a rig running an OC'd i5-2500k (~4.5ghz) and 2x OC'd GTX 580's in SLI?

    more specifically, a Cooler Master Silent Pro M850?

    im looking at this PSU cause i currently have the Cooler Master Silent Pro M600w and its completely silent and so far has proven to be quite reliable. also, the modular aspect is a big plus.

    EDIT: This theoretical system will be put under high stress because it'll be used with 3x 120hz 1080p monitors in 3D vision surround.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 4,281 Mod ✭✭✭✭deconduo


    You'd be cutting it pretty close. You're looking at 50A from the 580s and maybe ~12A from the rest of the system so a total of 62A on the +12V rail. While the PSU is rated for 66A its still a bit too close to comfort for me. I'd be looking for one with 72-75A.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,179 ✭✭✭Serephucus


    Antec HCP-850 perhaps?

    From what I've heard, the HCPs are very quiet units.

    I myself am looking at the Revolution85+ from Enermax. They're supposed to be the quietest going.

    http://www.watercoolinguk.co.uk/p/Enermax-Revolution85--ERV950EWT-950w-PSU_1412.html

    79A total 12V.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,002 ✭✭✭Komplett-Tech: Ryan


    Monotype wrote: »
    What were returned by XFX? PSUs or GPUs/motherboards etc? I never returned my XFX 7900GT I bought from komplett!

    Pretty much everything.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,983 ✭✭✭Tea_Bag


    deconduo wrote: »
    You'd be cutting it pretty close. You're looking at 50A from the 580s and maybe ~12A from the rest of the system so a total of 62A on the +12V rail. While the PSU is rated for 66A its still a bit too close to comfort for me. I'd be looking for one with 72-75A.
    Thanks for the advice.
    Looks like im going to either be needing a high end 850W PSU or a midrange 1KW.
    with a budget limit of €150 im giving myself, and ordering from HWVS, the obvious choice of the Corsair HX1000W is out because of the €190 price tag,

    ive narrowed it down to the CoolerMaster Silent Pro M1000 (brand loyalty i guess?) @ +12V - 80 A rail or the slightly more expensive Super Flower Golden Green SF-1000P14XE (80+ GOLD as upposed to CM silents 80+ bronze) @ +12V - 83 A according to HWVS.

    anyone got any other suggestions for a PSU in the €150 or under bracket, or a PSU thats worth spending a tiny bit extra on?
    Ideally, id like Modular and long cables, because cable management is hard enough already in my CM Storm Scout.

    Any preference on the 2 i picked? i realise running SLI 580's on air isnt going to be quiet, but i want to add as little other noise as possible really. if i wanted to sit next to a jet engine while gaming, id keep playing on my xbox.


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  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 4,281 Mod ✭✭✭✭deconduo


    The Golden Green is a better PSU but the CoolerMaster has a longer warranty. I'd take the Golden Green but its whatever you prefer. I would guess that the Golden Green would be quieter as well, SuperFlower have the quietest PSUs I've used :)


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