Sorry But It Is Very Racist To Oppose Immigration

SharpshooterTom · 17-04-2011 08:40AM #1

I've been delving into some of these polls about immigration across Europe, and I'm particularly disturbed that virtually every european country supports some kind of restrictions on immigration (in Ireland it's 70% even before the recession).

I've always wondered why so many people support "restrictions" on immigration? Why? Why does it matter who or what lives next to you?

The world is getting smaller, the concept of nation states will disappear at some point and we'll probably merge together into single nation state. I also believe the world (or at least Europe and America) will be majority mixed race by sometime this century. I've never understood why people wont just live and let live.

We're all from the human race and we all share this planet god dammit. No one has a right to tell anyone else where to live. Tear down the borders and let humanity live together.

AhSureTisGrand · 17-04-2011 08:52AM

No.

Jesus Wept · 17-04-2011 08:54AM

ok

Manic Moran · 17-04-2011 08:54AM

The world is getting smaller, the concept of nation states will disappear at some point and we'll probably merge together into single nation state. I also believe the world (or at least Europe and America) will be majority mixed race by sometime this century. I've never understood why people wont just live and let live.

You're mixing up the concept of race, and nation-states.

Immigration policy generally isn't about racial purity, it's about the fact that a nation's government has as its primary obligation that nation's citizens. Unlimited immigration prospects are going to have a very definite effect on the standard of living of that nation's denizens, and the government's ability to provide for them.

You may be right that at some point we'll be all one big happy global population, but that's not going to happen until mankind has colonised a few dozen planets.

NTM

Dionysus · 17-04-2011 08:59AM

Gnobe wrote: »

I've been delving into some of these polls about immigration across Europe, and I'm particularly disturbed that virtually every european country supports some kind of restrictions on immigration (in Ireland it's 70% even before the recession).

I've always wondered why so many people support "restrictions" on immigration? Why? Why does it matter who or what lives next to you?

The world is getting smaller, the concept of nation states will disappear at some point and we'll probably merge together into single nation state. I also believe the world (or at least Europe and America) will be majority mixed race by sometime this century. I've never understood why people wont just live and let live.

We're all from the human race and we all share this planet god dammit. No one has a right to tell anyone else where to live. Tear down the borders and let humanity live together.

I agree. Let's just allow everybody in and share our social welfare and health systems with them. Perhaps we could start with flyers dropped over Nigeria: Move to Ireland, choose a home and get the state to pay 90% of the rent, avoid your local witchdoctor and get a medical card for free western medical treatment, enjoy a free education system for your children. ...

hondasam · 17-04-2011 09:03AM

No there should be tighter restrictions imo.

PAULWATSON · 17-04-2011 09:03AM

Gnobe wrote: »

I've been delving into some of these polls about immigration across Europe, and I'm particularly disturbed that virtually every european country supports some kind of restrictions on immigration (in Ireland it's 70% even before the recession).

I've always wondered why so many people support "restrictions" on immigration? Why? Why does it matter who or what lives next to you?

The world is getting smaller, the concept of nation states will disappear at some point and we'll probably merge together into single nation state. I also believe the world (or at least Europe and America) will be majority mixed race by sometime this century. I've never understood why people wont just live and let live.

We're all from the human race and we all share this planet god dammit. No one has a right to tell anyone else where to live. Tear down the borders and let humanity live together.

Could you confirm which NGO you work for?

double GG · 17-04-2011 09:09AM

Restrictions are there for a reason.

If there were no restrictions, Africa's population would halve. The Middle Easts population would dramatically drop, and the 'richer' Western World would have a massive increase in population.

They are there for a reason, not for racism.

Sonics2k · 17-04-2011 09:23AM

I do find it somewhat ironic how uppity the Irish get about Immigration, when you consider that for generations, the Irish themselves have been emigrating to various other countries, especially the U.S. and Australia.

But god forbid those job thieving Polski's should come here! Oh right.

tfitzgerald · 17-04-2011 09:24AM

Even if it is raciest I don't Care I oppose it

PAULWATSON · 17-04-2011 09:26AM

Sonics2k wrote: »

I do find it somewhat ironic how uppity the Irish get about Immigration, when you consider that for generations, the Irish themselves have been emigrating to various other countries, especially the U.S. and Australia.

But god forbid those job thieving Polski's should come here! Oh right.

Ever read much history??

Paddy went to work in the US and the UK. If Paddy did not work he lived on the street. No benefits in those days.

During the 1800's the US were crying out for immigrants to populate thee country and workers to build an infrastructure.

By the way, I strongly suspect this thread was started by a "change agent" working for one of a host of social organisations. The purpose is to get people talking and "raising awarenes"

richymcdermott · 17-04-2011 09:29AM

im sick of this word racist being thrown around all the time

SharpshooterTom · 17-04-2011 09:30AM

double GG wrote: »

Restrictions are there for a reason.

It's a duty for rich countries to help out the poorer nations. Many people in those countries dream of being over here. Why oppose? There's plenty of space here.

AhSureTisGrand · 17-04-2011 09:31AM

Gnobe wrote: »

It's a duty for rich countries to help out the poorer nations. Many people in those countries dream of being over here. Why oppose? There's plenty of space here.

No there isn't

PAULWATSON · 17-04-2011 09:32AM

Gnobe wrote: »

It's a duty for rich countries to help out the poorer nations. Many people in those countries dream of being over here. Why oppose? There's plenty of space here.

This is primary school stuff.

Mrmoe · 17-04-2011 09:36AM

Gnobe wrote: »

It's a duty for rich countries to help out the poorer nations. Many people in those countries dream of being over here. Why oppose? There's plenty of space here.

According to Whom? Shouldn't they have a responsibility to help themselves and their own country rather than holding out the begging bowl to countries that have pulled themselves up from the dirt through their own hard work and effort? There is no doubt that poorer countries would need a helping hand to help them improve, but to give them a carte blanche to their citizens to move anywhere they want their country of origin will never improve due to being hamstrung by their best being able to leave unhindered.

galwayrush · 17-04-2011 09:36AM

We can't even afford to look after our own FFS.

R0ot · 17-04-2011 09:36AM

Immigration is always going to be a touchy subject but unfortunately we need to be more concerned for our own citizens (regardless of race/colour/religion/etc.) before we start to reach out to help others in any way.

How many homeless people are there in Ireland? How many drug addicts that have gotten there due to hard times and just can't afford to climb out of the hole they are now in? How many people are probably going to lose their homes this year due to everything that is going on?

We have enough issues at home that we can worry about first.

doolox · 17-04-2011 09:45AM

I am very much in favour of retaining restrictions on who can come into my country until standards of living, political behaviour ( ours included ) improve so that most of the people in the world have similar standards of behaviour and there is less friction and reduction in our standards of living as a result.
Because of open borders I have seen jobs in my area of work go to foreign people who happen to be younger, probably faster, and cheaper to employ than I am.

I have moved to a sector that can only employ Irish people and my conditions of employment have improved immensely. I'd say the same applies to anyone in an exclusively Irish jobs market, for example those using the Irish language, legal and admin staff etc. or those using almost exclusively Irish cultural content in their line of work which would take a foreigner ages to learn........

My wife works in a sector which employs a lot of Asian staff. Since the recent pay-cuts and difficulties in that sector a lot of them have left and the policy is that they are not replaced. My wife and her colleagues are having to take up the slack on their own without replacement of departing colleagues. If Irish staff had been employed in the first place ( these were permanent jobs given to Non-Irish people!!) the chances are they would stay put during the hard times and the difficulty would be lessened. What hit them hard was the recent increases in taxes and the recent cancellation of all overtime as they were in Ireland to make the most money in the least time for return home.

It is not difficult to imagine that those people less affected by international competition see nothing wrong with unrestricted entry to all people while those at the cutting edge of competition, in the direct line of fire to be let go if cheaper foreign labour can be obtained, will object strongest. It is the governments job to adjudicate to correct level of admissions to allow and stick to it. So far my experiences with this "social experiment" have been mixed.

There should be strict levels of education, health and skill levels required for entry, just as applies to Irish people going to US,AUS,NZ,Canada etc.

Equally strict levels of character, criminal records etc should apply.

It can be observed that those non-nationals with a good standard of education get on well here and contribute well to certain sectors of the Irish economy (nurses and doctors ) while other sectors suffer as a result (language problems with serving staff in hotels and supermarkets ).

While Ireland should not be a closed country we should not be in any hurry to open our doors to the world yet.......

dvpower · 17-04-2011 09:47AM

double GG wrote: »

Restrictions are there for a reason.

If there were no restrictions, Africa's population would halve. The Middle Easts population would dramatically drop, and the 'richer' Western World would have a massive increase in population.

They are there for a reason, not for racism.

But its widely accepted that Europe needs more immigrents to pay for pensions of an ever ageing population. There needs to be some restrictions, but probably less than there are now.

KINGVictor · 17-04-2011 09:51AM

Dionysus wrote: »

I agree. Let's just allow everybody in and share our social welfare and health systems with them. Perhaps we could start with flyers dropped over Nigeria: Move to Ireland, choose a home and get the state to pay 90% of the rent, avoid your local witchdoctor and get a medical card for free western medical treatment, enjoy a free education system for your children. ...

This is a bit tangential to the topic but why did you have to use Nigeria as an example? It is becoming very convenient and acceptable to disrespect Nigeria/Nigerians.

In the same vein, using your analogy there would be significant drop in population in Ireland if flyers were dropped indicating unrestricted immigration to Canada/USA.

@ topic, I personally feel it is naive to think that it is racist to oppose immigration. In a recent study done in the UK, it found that Black British and Asians are increasingly supporting policies to restrict further immigration, would they be racist to their own too?:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1361163/Asians-likely-anti-immigration-white-Britons.html

The reality is that countries cannot just open their doors to everyone, that would be ridiculous and the borderline of insanity however idealistic such an idea is.

dvpower · 17-04-2011 09:53AM

Mrmoe wrote: »

According to Whom? Shouldn't they have a responsibility to help themselves and their own country rather than holding out the begging bowl to countries that have pulled themselves up from the dirt through their own hard work and effort? There is no doubt that poorer countries would need a helping hand to help them improve, but to give them a carte blanche to their citizens to move anywhere they want their country of origin will never improve due to being hamstrung by their best being able to leave unhindered.

Only a very small minority of our immigrants are holding out the begging bowl. Most who come have already availed of expensive education services in their own countries, are young and healthy, don't tend to use the social welfare system and work hard.
Overall, the only losers are their countries of origin.

Bodhidharma · 17-04-2011 09:53AM

Gnobe wrote: »

It's a duty for rich countries to help out the poorer nations. Many people in those countries dream of being over here. Why oppose? There's plenty of space here.

From my reading of history I would say the opposite, it is the duty of rich countries to steal from and exploit poorer nations. People and governments oppose letting everyone in because for a caste system, which is essentially what the world is, to work there needs to be poor people to exploit. Its unfortunate but true.

Sonics2k · 17-04-2011 09:56AM

PAULWATSON wrote: »

Ever read much history??

Paddy went to work in the US and the UK. If Paddy did not work he lived on the street. No benefits in those days.

During the 1800's the US were crying out for immigrants to populate thee country and workers to build an infrastructure.

A surprisingly large amount.

The main reason for the Irish to move on to the U.S. during the 1800 was due to the issues affecting Ireland, huge parts were still reeling from the affects of the Famine, there was little prospect of employment, and others simply heard of this wonderful Land of Opportunity they wanted to be part of.

But my point is that, over a hundred years later, the Irish are still going to the U.S. when times get hard and get new jobs there.

How is that any different from people (let's go with Poland, its an easy example), coming to Ireland to seek work, get away from their Countries issues and seek a new life?

Don't get me wrong, my personal belief is that if you move to another country, you work, learn the language and pay tax, and not leech around.

17-04-2011 09:59AM

Well I have to say this article gave me pause for thought:

http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/938

dvpower · 17-04-2011 10:00AM

doolox wrote: »

Because of open borders I have seen jobs in my area of work go to foreign people who happen to be younger, probably faster, and cheaper to employ than I am.

This is a good thing, no? Improved competivness is good for the economy as a whole, creating more net wealth.
Everyone wins (except for the people who can't compete).

Sonics2k · 17-04-2011 10:06AM

bluewolf wrote: »

Well I have to say this article gave me pause for thought:

http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/938

Seemed very sensationalist don't you think, and quite a bit of hearsay.

Like it could of been written by an Evangelist from Idaho on the topic of Mexicans.

I've been to Sweden, have quite a lot of Swedish friends, I've mostly met through gaming, and even went out with a Swedish girl, but personally didn't think there was a huge amount of Muslims around while I was there. It was no London for example.

Edit:
The article also complains about Swedens Army. Sweden is a neutral country, it does not need a large army, just like Ireland has a small Army.

dvpower · 17-04-2011 10:07AM

bluewolf wrote: »

Well I have to say this article gave me pause for thought:

http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/938

A bit of a rant tbh.

KINGVictor · 17-04-2011 10:08AM

bluewolf wrote: »

Well I have to say this article gave me pause for thought:

http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/938

Are you aware that the article was written 5 years ago (2006) and since then the Swedish welfare system has not collapsed. I would advise that we learn to differentiate between propaganda and the truthful account of a particular issue.

17-04-2011 10:09AM

dvpower wrote: »

A bit of a rant tbh.

Yeah, I wonder how much of the stats or quotes are true. Scary if they are

KINGVictor wrote: »

Are you aware that the article was written 5 years ago (2006) and since then the Swedish welfare system has not collapsed. I would advise that we learn to differentiate between propaganda and the truthful account of a particular issue.

Sorry, it was the quotes and assault rates I was interested in - I don't care about the welfare

Sonics2k · 17-04-2011 10:17AM

bluewolf wrote: »

Yeah, I wonder how much of the stats or quotes are true. Scary if they are

This'd be one of those rare times I'd like to see his sources for his claims.

You can't just throw out "90% of robberies were by gangs" and not back it up.

Sorry But It Is Very Racist To Oppose Immigration

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