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NI Police chief Matt Baggott in parades warning

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  • 16-04-2011 11:59pm
    #1
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭


    Northern Ireland's police chief has warned of a repeat of the violence which marred last summer's marching season and appealed to those involved in parading disputes to reach agreement.

    Matt Baggott said he is concerned that dissident republicans may again seek to foment trouble around contentious flashpoints.

    Riotous scenes erupted across Northern Ireland last July, the most serious at Ardoyne in north Belfast where police came under sustained attack four nights in a row, and the cost of policing the whole marching season was almost £4 million.

    "I saw what happened last summer and I think the terrorists were quite able to exploit areas of disaffection and young people that put real pressure on the PSNI," he said. "They wanted us to overreact but we didn't.

    "So am I concerned? Yes. I think what we will have to see in the next three months is even more local dialogue, more give and take."

    A legislative framework aimed at resolving contentious parades agreed between the Democratic Unionists and Sinn Fein floundered when the Orange Order refused to back the plan.

    The ill-fated blueprint would have seen the controversial body that adjudicates on whether events proceed - the Parades Commission - replaced with a system aimed at fostering locally based agreements.

    Mr Baggott said it is not just the politicians who have a responsibility to resolve the issue.

    "I think it's broader than just senior politicians," he said. "I think it's about local groups being willing to engage. It's about different groups willing to give some ground and be more consensual on that.

    "And I think the lessons from last year are: why would we want to throw away everything that's happened in the last year in terms of progress? We are in place now: we need investment, we need jobs, we need health, we need education and we are in a recession. Why would we want to throw away money for the sake of a lack of dialogue or a lack of give and take?"

    http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/police-chief-matt-baggott-in-parades-warning-15143056.html

    Hopefully there will be no violence this time. The attempt to kill a police woman last time didn't go down too well, so lets hope for no repeat.


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    #2
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Keith, how about we hope that the OO decides to keep its base triumphalism to places where it is actually wanted?


    This problem is very easily solved, march where you are wanted, simple as.


    These "contentious" marches aren't about culture, they are simply about trying to get the croppies to lie down.


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    #3
    Madam
    Registered Users Posts: 1,501 ✭✭✭Madam


    Here in Glasgow the OO get to march a route to and from the city centre to a park(don't know who chooses which as it differs from year to year). There is no reason for them to march in any neighbourhood to annoy it's residents - why can't they do this in NI? I'm inclined to think it is indeed 'triumphalism' that foremost in the OO's minds!


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    #4
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    Keith, how about we hope that the OO decides to keep its base triumphalism to places where it is actually wanted?


    This problem is very easily solved, march where you are wanted, simple as.


    These "contentious" marches aren't about culture, they are simply about trying to get the croppies to lie down.
    Can the Hunger strike marches in Belfast please stop doing that? After all, it is N.I and not the Irish republic. Perhaps they could go do it in Dublin?

    Another republican parade took place just recently about Irish martyrs. Seems to be no equality here.


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    #5
    ardmacha
    Registered Users Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    Another republican parade took place just recently about Irish martyrs. Seems to be no equality here.

    In what district did these parades take place? How many of them are there in a year? There is indeed no equality with the OO which marches all over the place.


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    #6
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    ardmacha wrote: »
    In what district did these parades take place? How many of them are there in a year? There is indeed no equality with the OO which marches all over the place.
    So commemorating IRA murderers is OK with you?


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    #7
    Madam
    Registered Users Posts: 1,501 ✭✭✭Madam


    Ban them all:rolleyes:


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    #8
    ardmacha
    Registered Users Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    So commemorating IRA murderers is OK with you?

    Please don't put words in my mouth.

    In response to a posting about people marching where you are wanted, you introduced these republican parades to the discussion. I simply said that there were less of these and they were generally confined to nationalist areas. You cannot claim one lot of parades commemorating conflict as acceptable and another lot as unacceptable.


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    #9
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    Can the Hunger strike marches in Belfast please stop doing that? After all, it is N.I and not the Irish republic. Perhaps they could go do it in Dublin?

    Another republican parade took place just recently about Irish martyrs. Seems to be no equality here.
    If they march with the agreement of the residents, ie in places where they are wanted, that is perfectly acceptable.


    Quite ironic that you are saying the OO are being discriminated against.


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    #10
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    If they march with the agreement of the residents, ie in places where they are wanted, that is perfectly acceptable.


    Quite ironic that you are saying the OO are being discriminated against.
    Like what places? Do places belong to nationalists now? I thought it was a shared society? The old nationalist tribal menality comes out again.


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    #11
    dan719
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,597 ✭✭✭dan719


    Who gives a flying f*ck?

    Honestly, who cares about a battle that took place in 1690 before any of our great great great great grandparents were even thought of?

    How pathetic do you have to be to celebrate that, unless you're trying to get a rise out of people?

    And to people who let it p*ss them off, well then, stop giving the big mean OO the satisfaction?

    The good thing about the twelveth parades is that the normal sane residents leave NI for the weekend. It's a good litmus test for the crazies, as well as a boost to the economy of the Republic.


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    #12
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    dan719 wrote: »
    Who gives a flying f*ck?

    Honestly, who cares about a battle that took place in 1690 before any of our great great great great grandparents were even thought of?

    How pathetic do you have to be to celebrate that, unless you're trying to get a rise out of people?

    And to people who let it p*ss them off, well then, stop giving the big mean OO the satisfaction?

    The good thing about the twelveth parades is that the normal sane residents leave NI for the weekend. It's a good litmus test for the crazies, as well as a boost to the economy of the Republic.
    Ah the good old 'Normal residents leave N.I for the weekend' myth. It really should stop being used. Never heard a bigger lot of nonsense in all my life.


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    #13
    Madam
    Registered Users Posts: 1,501 ✭✭✭Madam


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    Ah the good old 'Normal residents leave N.I for the weekend' myth. It really should stop being used. Never heard a bigger lot of nonsense in all my life.

    So all those Northern Irish people I meet in Bundoran or Inishowen around the 12th of July are figments of my imagination:confused:


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    #14
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    Madam wrote: »
    So all those Northern Irish people I meet in Bundoran or Inishowen around the 12th of July are figments of my imagination:confused:
    Most likely bitter republicans. I know so many people who can't wait for the 12th.


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    #15
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    Most likely bitter republicans. I know so many people who can't wait for the 12th.
    Or it could just be people who don't want to have any part in that rubbish so they leave for the day?


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    #16
    Madam
    Registered Users Posts: 1,501 ✭✭✭Madam


    Oh I've met some really nice folk who come for the day to Rossnowlagh - no triumphalism there, Just a wee march, something to eat and a drink afterwards then home blissfully unaware at all the locals laughing at them:) yis know your place in the Republic:D


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    #17
    Denerick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,488 ✭✭✭Denerick


    Madam wrote: »
    Oh I've met some really nice folk who come for the day to Rossnowlagh - no triumphalism there, Just a wee march, something to eat and a drink afterwards then home blissfully unaware at all the locals laughing at them:) yis know your place in the Republic:D

    They know rightly that the locals laugh at them, they aren't stupid.

    I think the marches are stupid but evidently they are important to a segment of the Unionist population up North. Perhaps the rough estates won't rise up this time like last year? Last year in Ardoyne was rough, it was like every little boy racer and yahoo had all his christmasses at once.


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    #18
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    Denerick wrote: »
    They know rightly that the locals laugh at them, they aren't stupid.

    I think the marches are stupid but evidently they are important to a segment of the Unionist population up North. Perhaps the rough estates won't rise up this time like last year? Last year in Ardoyne was rough, it was like every little boy racer and yahoo had all his christmasses at once.
    It isn't marching in Ardoyne. It is past Ardoyne on a road everyone uses all year round. They don't own the road.


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    #19
    Yitzhak Rabin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,225 ✭✭✭Yitzhak Rabin


    I think the marches are silly.

    But I think the republicans who work themselves into a kink and smash up their own neighbourhoods are far sillier.

    Seriously, its a bunch of fools celebrating a victory from the 17th century. Why not just laugh at them and get on with your life. Although I suppose some people do love any chance for a bit of thuggery.


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    #20
    nordydan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,105 ✭✭✭nordydan


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    Most likely bitter republicans. I know so many people who can't wait for the 12th.
    yes, hotel owners in the republic love the 12th alright. Their counterparts in the North are not so keen!


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    #21
    Savage Tyrant
    Registered Users Posts: 3,165 ✭✭✭Savage Tyrant


    It's certainly no coincidence that the week of the 12th is one of the most active weeks for tourism in the south. And the visitor are certainly not exclusively "bitter republicans" as Keith says. They aren't even exclusively nationalist or catholic. Plenty of protestants travel down to get away from the silliness of it.


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    #22
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    Savage Tyrant wrote: »
    It's certainly no coincidence that the week of the 12th is one of the most active weeks for tourism in the south. And the visitor are certainly not exclusively "bitter republicans" as Keith says. They aren't even exclusively nationalist or catholic. Plenty of protestants travel down to get away from the silliness of it.
    Depends what you mean by plenty. Many more go to it.


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    #23
    Savage Tyrant
    Registered Users Posts: 3,165 ✭✭✭Savage Tyrant


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    Depends what you mean by plenty. Many more go to it.

    Many more? I doubt it. Many more probably stay at home and live their lives ignoring it completely though.
    The 12th is important to only quite a small overall portion of the 6 county population actually. My guess (and I admit it is a guess) is that less than 20% of the overall population in the north take any active part in "celebrating" the 12th.


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    #24
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    Savage Tyrant wrote: »
    Many more? I doubt it. Many more probably stay at home and live their lives ignoring it completely though.
    The 12th is important to only quite a small overall portion of the 6 county population actually. My guess (and I admit it is a guess) is that less than 20% of the overall population in the north take any active part in "celebrating" the 12th.
    Well over 500,000 people turned out for the twelfth in 2008.


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    #25
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    I wonder how the OO would feel about a Catholic band joining in to commemorate the Catholics that foughtg for King William?


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    #26
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    Well over 500,000 people turned out for the twelfth in 2008.

    That's amazing. 500,000 people turning up to watch all that silliness.


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    #27
    Savage Tyrant
    Registered Users Posts: 3,165 ✭✭✭Savage Tyrant


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    That's amazing. 500,000 people turning up to watch all that silliness.

    I'd say that's probably an exaggerated number...But even if not, it only accounts for about 30% of the northern population.


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    #28
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    That's amazing. 500,000 people turning up to watch all that silliness.
    I don't think its silly. But im glad we have the freedom to do it in Ulster.


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    #29
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    I don't think its silly. But im glad we have the freedom to do it in Ulster.

    Would you support the freedom of the residents of Ardoyne to request that that road be closed on the 12th July because they'd like to have festival celebrating Irish culture on it?


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    #30
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    Would you support the freedom of the residents of Ardoyne to request that that road be closed on the 12th July because they'd like to have festival celebrating Irish culture on it?

    Nothing to stop the residents of the ardoyne having a festival in the ardoyne on the 12th since the orange order dies not actully parade through the ardoyne but rather passes it, but hey why let the truth get in the way of a good argument. So what happens if orange lodge is based in an area were it has no choice but to pass near a nationalist area such as ballynifeagh which owing to a large obstruction known as the lagan river, has to cross the oreamu bridge and parade through the holy lands in order to join the main procession?


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    #31
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    Would you support the freedom of the residents of Ardoyne to request that that road be closed on the 12th July because they'd like to have festival celebrating Irish culture on it?
    Why could the bands not walk on the road with them?


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