[JohnnieK]

Unfortunatly my friend the "cash kings" are very much out there and I for one am finding it hard to compete with them. I personally think the grant scheme is bull. The standard has always been there but just not implemented in the domestic market. When the grant was set up it was for a more "efficient" system and then they started bringing the building regs into it and as everyone knows if you go into 20 year old house the lack of building regs hits you straight away. To expext the installer to bring the installation up to the current ones is way to much to expect and a good bit of the time is not cost affective no matter how much oil or gas goes up.

This thing about the 10sq earth bonding is one example. A lot of older houses dont have 20sq incoming mains so there is no need to upgrade the earth cable, but they still pull you up on it. If they want the cables upgraded get an electrician to do a rewire on the place.

The grants for this are ending in 2013 thank god.

[Jedstaff]

Couldn't agree with you more johnniek. Can't wait till these grant jobs end and everyone is on an even keel pricing jobs.

[Micky Dolenz]

Maybe we should start a book on who gets to 10 pp first

[greenwitenvy]

Lads
It's the only gig in town, only for it, I don't know where the work would come from. Can't see it going myself. I'd say it will be extended .
They said the same about the solar grants! Remember

[yoshytoshy]

Originally Posted by greenwitenvy

Lads
It's the only gig in town, only for it, I don't know where the work would come from. Can't see it going myself. I'd say it will be extended .
They said the same about the solar grants! Remember

Thats nonsense ,especially considering what is happening in Bord gais at the moment. It doesn't sound like you know whats going on.

[MiniGolf]

New grant rates out:
Heating SystemHigh Efficiency Oil / Gas Boiler with Controls upgrade.€560
Heating Controls Upgrade only€400
Solar Heating€800

taken from SEAI.ie!!

[JohnnieK]

Originally Posted by MiniGolf

New grant rates out:
Heating SystemHigh Efficiency Oil / Gas Boiler with Controls upgrade.€560
Heating Controls Upgrade only€400
Solar Heating€800

taken from SEAI.ie!!

It's a great incentive for consumers to upgrade there heating systems all right. Reduce the grant.
There reason is because "the price of installations has gone down". Maybe I should show them the letters from DPL and heatmechants telling me that the price of pipe and fittings has gone up again.

[Micky Dolenz]

Now I won't have to reach 10 pp, I'm done with grant work.

[steven82]

Originally Posted by greenwitenvy

I think your all missing the point! SEAI have set this standard, because for years heating systems have being installed very inefficient. People have to look at the long term of their investment, not just the bottom figure(cost) of the installation!
The whole idea is to save money in the long run with rising prices of oil and gas and I think that this message needs to get across to the customer.
The extra Trv's, Motorised Valves, Stats and timeclocks and even the immersion timer.
Most houses that I go into, the immersion is left on with the heating system also.
I called to a job this week and the previous 2 plumbers had advised the customer not to go for the grant, that it was a waste of money!

I feel that it sets the standards higher and keeps everyone on their toes and keeps the cash kings at bay(black market)

My main issue is not all the extras SEAI are asking us to do or their standard, as everyone on the scheme must do all the extras to the same standard, so were all on a level playing field. The single biggest issue with SEAI is the fact that they have a "standard" that they want us to install to, but they cannot train us to it. We only find out about new items when you’re hit with a penalty point, or 3 in most cases. If they have a "standard", train us to it, and i know i will never get another penalty point again. Punishing us into shape is no way to train an industry. Circus's used to train the animals like that, and they don’t even do that anymore (supposedly)

[Outkast_IRE]

Did anybody ever get a reasonable answer as to why you need a automatic bypass, even if one is part of the system gas boiler you just installed ?

[JohnnieK]

The bypass in the boiler enables the minimum flow rate through the boiler in the event of all valves closing. This may not be sufficiant for the whole system and it say's this in nearly every boiler installation manual I know off.
In most standard domestic installations the boiler bypass is sufficient but to know for certain you would have to expose every run of pipe to determin the size, any restrictions and water content to determin flow rates. This is not practical so an auto-bypass valve is fitted external to the boiler to be on the safe side.
A pain in the bum but it has to be done to satisfy the suits.

[Outkast_IRE]

Originally Posted by JohnnieK

The bypass in the boiler enables the minimum flow rate through the boiler in the event of all valves closing. This may not be sufficiant for the whole system and it say's this in nearly every boiler installation manual I know off.
In most standard domestic installations the boiler bypass is sufficient but to know for certain you would have to expose every run of pipe to determin the size, any restrictions and water content to determin flow rates. This is not practical so an auto-bypass valve is fitted external to the boiler to be on the safe side.
A pain in the bum but it has to be done to satisfy the suits.

To be honest on a lot of the grant work we do , they look for a new better insulated cylinder too , so changing the pipework isnt a problem, as theres motorized valves and all that going in aswell , its just another expense that the client doesnt realise , especially with the new grant rates its making people shy away from getting the extra work done .

[Micky Dolenz]

Originally Posted by JohnnieK

The bypass in the boiler enables the minimum flow rate through the boiler in the event of all valves closing. This may not be sufficiant for the whole system and it say's this in nearly every boiler installation manual I know off.
In most standard domestic installations the boiler bypass is sufficient but to know for certain you would have to expose every run of pipe to determin the size, any restrictions and water content to determin flow rates. This is not practical so an auto-bypass valve is fitted external to the boiler to be on the safe side.
A pain in the bum but it has to be done to satisfy the suits.

It only makes sense though on a system that has a pump over run on it. For an on demand system, it should not be required, as soon as stats are satisfied the system goes down almost immediately.

[JohnnieK]

Originally Posted by Outkast_IRE

especially with the new grant rates its making people shy away from getting the extra work done .

It looks to me as if they are trying to make the grant as unattractive as they can so people wont go for it. All this bull****e they said about the price of installations coming down was the reason the grant is lower is total nonsens. The fact is it has not come down and the other hard truth is that fittings have risen in price by about 12.5%.

This whole thing is only going to promote the black economy in my eyes.

[JohnnieK]

Originally Posted by Micky Dolenz

It only makes sense though on a system that has a pump over run on it. For an on demand system, it should not be required, as soon as stats are satisfied the system goes down almost immediately.

Totally agree micky