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Sexism in RTE Sports Coverage?

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  • 05-02-2011 2:51pm
    #1
    siopatmul
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16 ✭


    Hi folks,

    Is anyone else fed up with the lack of women's sport on RTE? I've just seen their ad for sports coverage for 2011.
    Premiership Soccer – men's sport
    Six Nations Rugby - men's sport
    League of Ireland Soccer – men's sport
    Various golf tournaments – men's sport
    GAA hurling and football – men's sport
    Horse racing – a male dominated sport
    If we are lucky, women will have a few highlights here and there of but there's no mention of even that in the recent RTE advert.
    There seems to be a touch of the Andy Gray's about RTE's sports department where women and our sports play second fiddle to the more dominant men's sports output. This has been the case for many years. If 50 per cent of the people in Ireland are women, then 50 per cent of the license payers are also women. Let's do something about the imbalance in RTE's sports coverage?
    The Broadcasting Complaints Commission (BCI) is now defunct and has been put under the remit of the Broacasting Authority of Ireland (BAI) so they are the organisation to complain to.
    The BAI's remit is:
    objectivity & impartiality in news
    fairness, objectivity & impartiality in current affairs
    harm & offence - Code of Programme Standards
    law & order
    privacy of an individual
    general advertising codes
    children's advertising code
    In the list of BAI above, there is nothing about “equality” in the range of output or coverage on our national channels. Maybe the status quo of inequality is acceptable to them. But what would we expect when the BCC was state funded as is its “new” section within the BAI.

    There is only one way to make a complaint by email and that is to contact info@bai.ie otherwise, you have to write a letter to them on an official complaint form. Yes, the newly formed BAI make it as difficult as possible to make a complaint, just as the BCC did before them.
    I am suggesting that those of you who are also fed up with the lack of equality in the output of women's sport compared to men's sport on RTE, contact the email address above. I would expect men as well as women to do this. I am assuming the men in Ireland are not like the broadcasters on Sky Sports (Andy Gray in particular) or in RTE Sports dept who do their best to ignore women's sport altogether. At least TG4 make an effort towards equality but they are on their own in this country.
    Anyway, I hope you will do what I've done, which is to complain to the BAI about this. Email: info@bai.ie It's up to you.
    At the same time, you could complain about RTE's bias towards FF in their political output!
    Best,
    Siobhan
    siobhan patricia mulcahy


«134

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    #2
    BoardsRanger
    Registered Users Posts: 706 ✭✭✭BoardsRanger


    Yes indeed, we really need more women's beach volleyball and I shall take the necessary steps to complain about this.


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    #3
    fivestar
    Registered Users Posts: 54 ✭✭fivestar


    It's simple supply and demand. Viewing figures are much higher for the more popular sports, most of which are male dominated.


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    #4
    Wile E. Coyote
    Registered Users Posts: 1,560 ✭✭✭Wile E. Coyote


    Simply a case of supply and demand. Nothing to do with sexism. They're not going to put on a load of sports that no one is going to watch just to keep you happy.


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    #5
    cup of tea
    Registered Users Posts: 749 ✭✭✭cup of tea


    No offence women sport is a niche.Sport viewing is male dominated. Let's just say the quality between a male football game and a women football game is enormous. An example is an u16 boys team beat a women county team here 2 years ago!!.
    I watched the final 10mins of a womens game on TG4 and the score was something ridiculous like 4-3 to 5-5.
    TV broadcasters have to follow the money and the majoriy of viewers interests. Take for example if RTE had a choice between a choice of a licence for premierleague football or eircom league football for the same cost to RTE, it would be a no-brainer which they would choose. Likewise they will choose men played sports over women played sports for the obvious reason that there is a substantially bigger viewers interests. SIMPLE


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    #6
    goose2005
    Registered Users Posts: 4,798 ✭✭✭goose2005


    Should Division 10 football get the same coverage as Division 1? If we aired sport based on talent, there would be no women's sports on TV at all.


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    #7
    siopatmul
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16 ✭siopatmul


    Supply and demand my elbow.
    How can viewing figures be high for women's sport when there isn't any on RTE.
    During WW2, women's baseball was hugely popular while US men were at war. As soon as the war ended, men took over the game once more and that was the end of popularity for women's baseball.
    If there is 50 per cent women sport on over a long timeframe, then you can talk about popularity, viewing figures and supply and demand.


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    #8
    UrbanSea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,335 ✭✭✭✭UrbanSea


    Over reaction of the century.
    So going by your theory,if RTE played 50% female played sports and 50% male played sports,then they'd have the same number of viewers?
    What utter nonsense.


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    #9
    longhalloween
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,207 ✭✭✭longhalloween


    Men for the most part prefer male sports over female sports as they are more professional and physical

    Women dont really watch sport, or they watch the guys more than the game.

    Hence...male sports are more popular and RTE follows that market.

    Same reason theres twice as many womens clothes shops as mens...retailers follow the market


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    #10
    JayEnnis
    Registered Users Posts: 851 ✭✭✭JayEnnis


    Of course the popularity of women's baseball would soar if there was no competition for it. What a ridiculous example.


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    #11
    Bonavox
    Registered Users Posts: 1,713 ✭✭✭Bonavox


    siopatmul wrote: »
    Supply and demand my elbow.
    How can viewing figures be high for women's sport when there isn't any on RTE.
    During WW2, women's baseball was hugely popular while US men were at war. As soon as the war ended, men took over the game once more and that was the end of popularity for women's baseball.
    If there is 50 per cent women sport on over a long timeframe, then you can talk about popularity, viewing figures and supply and demand.

    Oh, get off your high horse, I'm sick of this rampant sexism craze lately. Going by your philosophy, women are sexist because shows like Off The Rails and Xpose are mostly dominated by women. If people want to see male sports more than they want to see female sports, RTÉ are going to oblige.


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    #12
    CarrickMcJoe
    Registered Users Posts: 3,379 ✭✭✭CarrickMcJoe


    RTE are a touch racist too, have you ever seen a black newsreader or weather reporter?

    No Trevor McDonalds here!


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    #13
    UrbanSea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,335 ✭✭✭✭UrbanSea


    And I cannot see how Andy Gray's situation is even remotely similar to this.
    All the soaps on tv are aimed at women,must make a complaint.


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    #14
    mikemac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    RTÉ are pretty good at showing hockey if there is a big tournament on, that seems to be mainly a girls sport

    I'd watch it anyway, it's entertaining, fast and skilful


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    #15
    Morgans
    Registered Users Posts: 4,349 ✭✭✭Morgans


    siopatmul wrote: »
    Hi folks,

    Is anyone else fed up with the lack of women's sport on RTE? I've just seen their ad for sports coverage for 2011.
    Premiership Soccer – men's sport
    Six Nations Rugby - men's sport
    League of Ireland Soccer – men's sport
    Various golf tournaments – men's sport
    GAA hurling and football – men's sport
    Horse racing – a male dominated sport
    If we are lucky, women will have a few highlights here and there of but there's no mention of even that in the recent RTE advert.
    There seems to be a touch of the Andy Gray's about RTE's sports department where women and our sports play second fiddle to the more dominant men's sports output. This has been the case for many years. If 50 per cent of the people in Ireland are women, then 50 per cent of the license payers are also women. Let's do something about the imbalance in RTE's sports coverage?
    The Broadcasting Complaints Commission (BCI) is now defunct and has been put under the remit of the Broacasting Authority of Ireland (BAI) so they are the organisation to complain to.
    The BAI's remit is:
    objectivity & impartiality in news
    fairness, objectivity & impartiality in current affairs
    harm & offence - Code of Programme Standards
    law & order
    privacy of an individual
    general advertising codes
    children's advertising code
    In the list of BAI above, there is nothing about “equality” in the range of output or coverage on our national channels. Maybe the status quo of inequality is acceptable to them. But what would we expect when the BCC was state funded as is its “new” section within the BAI.

    There is only one way to make a complaint by email and that is to contact info@bai.ie otherwise, you have to write a letter to them on an official complaint form. Yes, the newly formed BAI make it as difficult as possible to make a complaint, just as the BCC did before them.
    I am suggesting that those of you who are also fed up with the lack of equality in the output of women's sport compared to men's sport on RTE, contact the email address above. I would expect men as well as women to do this. I am assuming the men in Ireland are not like the broadcasters on Sky Sports (Andy Gray in particular) or in RTE Sports dept who do their best to ignore women's sport altogether. At least TG4 make an effort towards equality but they are on their own in this country.
    Anyway, I hope you will do what I've done, which is to complain to the BAI about this. Email: info@bai.ie It's up to you.
    At the same time, you could complain about RTE's bias towards FF in their political output!
    Best,
    Siobhan
    siobhan patricia mulcahy

    No.


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    #16
    super_furry
    Registered Users Posts: 27,321 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    siopatmul wrote: »
    Supply and demand my elbow.
    How can viewing figures be high for women's sport when there isn't any on RTE.

    Ok then. So what are the attendance figures like at these women's events then? How many people go to watch women's football or rugby?

    It's not on television because people don't want to watch it.


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    #17
    whydoibother?
    Closed Accounts Posts: 758 ✭✭✭whydoibother?


    I think it is a supply and demand thing. Whether we like it or not, sport is a physical thing, and that means that men being faster and stronger can generally play it in a more entertaining way. There is a difference in standard which is why we don't have mixed teams in most sports. I am a woman, and forced to watch either hurling and camogie, I'd prefer to watch hurling because it's faster. However, what I'd like much better than either is a comedy show, which brings me on to my second point.

    I also think it's to do with the fact that women generally aren't as into watching sports as men. I'd say that across all sports I've watched about 4 matches over the last year (usually only because I happened to be in the room when a man was using the TV). I'd also say that's about average with women. Of course we can all now immediately think of a female we know who is mad into soccer or something, but the majority aren't.

    While I agree that weak demand is the reason for the current lack of women's sports on TV, I don't think that the showing of sports should be entirely demand-lead. Because of the health and social benefits of sports, womens sports should be more available to girls on TV to inspire interest. (Something I sadly lack)


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    #18
    SarahBM
    Registered Users Posts: 4,906 ✭✭✭SarahBM


    super_furry wrote: »
    Ok then. So what are the attendance figures like at these women's events then? How many people go to watch women's football or rugby?

    It's not on television because people don't want to watch it.


    People dont watch it because its not on TV.

    Ive seen better quality womens football than I have in League 1
    and the notion that most women dont like sport is just out dated.


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    #19
    siopatmul
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16 ✭siopatmul


    Well said SarahBM.
    To answer a few of the points made above:
    1. You cannot analyse the viewing numbers, demand etc for something that does not already exist so most of the replies here so far are irrelevant and off message
    2. Women's sport would become more popular/ be in more demand if it got more of an airing, specifically on RTE
    3. All our home tv channels survive on advertising revenue (although RTE also gets state funding and license money) and TV3 and TG4 have made a good stab at representing women's sport; they would not be doing this if there was no advertising revenue flowing in from it
    In summary: The original post was about RTE's dearth of coverage - most of the replies (from men presumably) have missed the point completely


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    #20
    Morgans
    Registered Users Posts: 4,349 ✭✭✭Morgans


    SarahBM wrote: »
    People dont watch it because its not on TV.

    Ive seen better quality womens football than I have in League 1
    and the notion that most women dont like sport is just out dated.

    Do you think that a Woman's team would beat a League 1 team? Seriously? I think they would get hammered by at least 5 against the very worst League 1 team. Just like there are fantastic women athletes, but the very very best 100m runner wouldnt be in the top 1000 men. If you are going to have this debate, have it on the egalitarian affirmative action grounds, don't go down the road that a woman's team would beat a League 1 team. Absolutely no chance Im afraid. I couldn't see the very best women's team competing with a conference side. And on quality grounds, they should be on tv more than any woman's side.

    Sure its only a WUM of a thread anyway. Its clear that equating men's sport dominance to an "Andy Gray" attitude among RTE is just claptrap.


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    #21
    SarahBM
    Registered Users Posts: 4,906 ✭✭✭SarahBM


    I really do think that if more womens sports were covered then more people would watch. take the USA for example. Womens soccer is one of the fastest growing sports, nearly more popular than mens soccer. correct me if Im wrong but I think the womens league even have their own channel.

    Womens sports might even bring in more advertising revenue, as a more diverse range of products could be advertised when you broaden the target market.

    The thread is about the lack of sports coverage and not about lack of women. just because RTE have 4 or 5 female sports presenters doesnt make it balanced.


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    #22
    siopatmul
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16 ✭siopatmul


    Morgans wrote: »
    Do you think that a Woman's team would beat a League 1 team? Seriously? QUOTE]

    Who's talking about women playing soccer or any other sport against men?
    I suggest you go back and read my original post slowly so you might understand it.
    Yet another reply completely off message.


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    #23
    Morgans
    Registered Users Posts: 4,349 ✭✭✭Morgans


    siopatmul wrote: »
    Well said SarahBM.
    To answer a few of the points made above:
    1. You cannot analyse the viewing numbers, demand etc for something that does not already exist so most of the replies here so far are irrelevant and off message
    2. Women's sport would become more popular/ be in more demand if it got more of an airing, specifically on RTE
    3. All our home tv channels survive on advertising revenue (although RTE also gets state funding and license money) and TV3 and TG4 have made a good stab at representing women's sport; they would not be doing this if there was no advertising revenue flowing in from it
    In summary: The original post was about RTE's dearth of coverage - most of the replies (from men presumably) have missed the point completely

    You believe that TV3 and TG4 cover women's sport because of the money they make from it?
    And they actively choose women's sport shunning more high profile men's sport. Or is it because the sport are so delighted to get any coverage that the media rights are free or virtually free.

    Because RTE don't cover women sport instead of more popular male sport, its because of an Andy Gray type attitude in RTE?

    Do you think the women soccer fans would prefer to see a premiership game or a women's game on TV? Are RTE being sexist in catering for these female fans?


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    #24
    SarahBM
    Registered Users Posts: 4,906 ✭✭✭SarahBM


    Morgans wrote: »
    Do you think that a Woman's team would beat a League 1 team? Seriously? I think they would get hammered by at least 5 against the very worst League 1 team.

    I would love to test your theory. I love how you dismiss my point having no evidence to prove that women are worse than men at soccer. show me proof. I would love to see a ladies team put up against a mens team to see if you are right or wrong.

    as for your comment that this thread is a claptrap, I totally disagree. I think a valid point has been raised. There is little or no coverage of womens sport on RTE aside from all Ireland Camoige and Ladies Football finals.


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    #25
    SarahBM
    Registered Users Posts: 4,906 ✭✭✭SarahBM


    Morgans wrote: »
    You believe that TV3 and TG4 cover women's sport because of the money they make from it?
    And they actively choose women's sport shunning more high profile men's sport. Or is it because the sport are so delighted to get any coverage that the media rights are free or virtually free.

    Because RTE don't cover women sport instead of more popular male sport, its because of an Andy Gray type attitude in RTE?

    Do you think the women soccer fans would prefer to see a premiership game or a women's game on TV? Are RTE being sexist in catering for these female fans?

    nobody said show womens sport instead of men sport. I would happily watch both if I could. I for one would just like to see more coverage of womens sport, and not necessarily soccer!


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    #26
    Morgans
    Registered Users Posts: 4,349 ✭✭✭Morgans


    siopatmul wrote: »
    Morgans wrote: »
    Do you think that a Woman's team would beat a League 1 team? Seriously? QUOTE]

    Who's talking about women playing soccer or any other sport against men?
    I suggest you go back and read my original post slowly so you might understand it.
    Yet another reply completely off message.

    Read what I said before jumping down my throat. I was relying to SarahBM's message that she had seen women's game with better quality than league 1. If its off topic report it to the moderators.

    If women want to be treated as equals, then the market is to show the best exponents of the game. Unfortunately for women, in the most popular sports the best exponents of the game are men. If RTE deliberately ignored women's tennis or women's athletic events at championships, then you could have an arguement re sexism, but the fact that the most popular sports are dominated by men, and surprise surprise, they want to be watched by more people and surprise suprise RTE strive to provide people what they want. Saying that RTE have an Andy Gray type attitude is offensive and does the feminist arguement no favour.


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    #27
    Todd Gack
    Registered Users Posts: 551 ✭✭✭Todd Gack


    Womens sports aren't on tv because they are not very popular apart from tennis which is shown on RTE at Wimbledon, as is track and field whenever theres's a big championship on.

    Sport doesn't exist solely on tv, the popularity of sport in general and female sport can be judged on the attendance numbers they get.....and in the case of most women's sports they're particularly low. If people, male or female, were interested in following them they would do so. Televising something that hardly anyone is interested in is pointless.


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    #28
    Morgans
    Registered Users Posts: 4,349 ✭✭✭Morgans


    SarahBM wrote: »
    I would love to test your theory. I love how you dismiss my point having no evidence to prove that women are worse than men at soccer. show me proof. I would love to see a ladies team put up against a mens team to see if you are right or wrong.

    as for your comment that this thread is a claptrap, I totally disagree. I think a valid point has been raised. There is little or no coverage of womens sport on RTE aside from all Ireland Camoige and Ladies Football finals.

    Im afraid it would set back the arguement of having women's football on TV should a game be played. I think anyone who thinks they are at League 1 level are unbelievably unrealistic. But you can take the lack of proof to suggest that the worst womens team could beat Barcelona if you want. There is no proof out there to prove you wrong. But given that its generally accepted by League of Ireland fans team would struggle in league 1 at the moment, and managers in Scotland believe that Celtic (60,000 see them every home game) are of a League 1 standard, it doesnt mean that an amateur team of women couldnt hold their own in the league. You are free to hold that opinion. I do think its complete nonsense.

    RTE sport, like all media companies, have a limited budget. F1 was dropped recently cos it cost too much, horse racing has been cut back on, Heineken Cup isnt shown live. Hundreds of thousands are missing out and Eamon Ryan tried to change this (rightly or wrongly) Its expensive and there is limited space on schedules. If its on quality grounds, then women are possibly over-represented. If its on a public service grounds then there is some arguement to have more women's sport on. However, to say its because of an Andy Gray type attitude in RTE is 100% wrong.


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    #29
    Morgans
    Registered Users Posts: 4,349 ✭✭✭Morgans


    Todd Gack wrote: »
    Womens sports aren't on tv because they are not very popular apart from tennis which is shown on RTE at Wimbledon, as is track and field whenever theres's a big championship on.

    Sport doesn't exist solely on tv, the popularity of sport in general and female sport can be judged on the attendance numbers they get.....and in the case of most women's sports they're particularly low. If people, male or female, were interested in following them they would do so. Televising something that hardly anyone is interested in is pointless.

    Likewise sponsorship in women's sport isn't the same as it is for male sport. It just may be, that more men watch the sports. Of course, that is a typically Andy Gray reaction.


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    #30
    Spook80
    Registered Users Posts: 314 ✭✭Spook80


    You don't see me trying to claim i'm better at ironing


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    #31
    Mossyman
    Registered Users Posts: 145 ✭✭Mossyman


    siopatmul wrote: »
    Well said SarahBM.
    In summary: The original post was about RTE's dearth of coverage - most of the replies (from men presumably) have missed the point completely

    What an awfully sexist comment and as a man I take particular offence to it. How would you like it if I told you to get off the computer, into the kitchen and make me dinner every night like a woman should? Not that I would say it, I am extremely supportive and open minded about woman being equals. You are so presumptuous and completely narrow minded.

    How can you say that it would become popular would watch it when many women, including the girlfriend, sister, the vast majority of female college friends and female relatives have no interest in sport, regardless if women or men are playing it. They are the ones that may watch the All Ireland finals (men or women), The Grand National (which female jockeys take part) and World Cup Final simply because of the grand scale of these events. They are not interested in it, but watch it because they want to be part of the conversation on Monday morning.

    Now if this is to be the case that they would not be guaranteed to watch these events of the highest standard in their respective sports, then how would you (or any television station with any sense) put on a match where the standard is substantially not as good and expect good ratings? And I'm not being sexist, its fact, although on occasion womens game may be of good quality.

    If you want to start a television station then go ahead, I sure you would last almost a whole week. I would love you to prove me wrong. :)

    Now back to watching the Premier League and rugby highlights......


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