Buzzards and Frogs

E39MSport · 10-09-2010 8:23pm #1

I've seen one eat a frog.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 13-09-2010 8:19am

Frogs make up a fair portion of their diet.

Mothman · 13-09-2010 8:58am

Abel Spoiled Rigging wrote: »

Frogs make up a fair portion of their diet.

Indeed,
Many years ago I had one perched in my garden for more than a month at spawning time. It was here for the frogs.

trebor28 · 13-09-2010 11:57am

so the government spend money on introducing these birds and then decides we'll count all the frogs in the country and spends money doing this while the buzzards are cleaning them out behind them!!

doh!

Feargal as Luimneach · 13-09-2010 12:10pm

trebor28 wrote: »

so the government spend money on introducing these birds and then decides we'll count all the frogs in the country and spends money doing this while the buzzards are cleaning them out behind them!!

doh!

Get your facts correct.:rolleyes:
The buzzards are not being re-introduced they are already here. The buzzards are not the cause of decline of frogs, habitat degradation is.

doh!

trebor28 · 13-09-2010 1:40pm

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

Get your facts correct.:rolleyes:
The buzzards are not being re-introduced they are already here. The buzzards are not the cause of decline of frogs, habitat degradation is.

doh!

are they not releasing them as well???

i was just pointing out an irony with our government, wasnt having a stab at the buzzards!

Feargal as Luimneach · 13-09-2010 5:59pm

trebor28 wrote: »

are they not releasing them as well???

i was just pointing out an irony with our government, wasnt having a stab at the buzzards!

Buzzards aren't being released.
The cost of the frog survey is 125,000 euro which in all fairness is a tiny amount. Frogs are declining so why shouldn't something be done about it.:(

trebor28 · 13-09-2010 6:20pm

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

Buzzards aren't being released.
The cost of the frog survey is 125,000 euro which in all fairness is a tiny amount. Frogs are declining so why shouldn't something be done about it.:(

yes thats a tiny amount, how do you know they are declining?
if its so obvious why are they bothering to count them, the time they spend counting them will be time wasted if there will be more gone by the time they have finished.
and what then, spend more time and money investigating why they are declining and then publish a report on these findings and outlining what can be done to counteract these problems??
how long will that take??
5 years?
and then what?
a year setting up a task force to set up a plan to get the frog numbers back to where they belong!!

Birdnuts · 13-09-2010 11:44pm

trebor28 wrote: »

yes thats a tiny amount, how do you know they are declining?
if its so obvious why are they bothering to count them, the time they spend counting them will be time wasted if there will be more gone by the time they have finished.
and what then, spend more time and money investigating why they are declining and then publish a report on these findings and outlining what can be done to counteract these problems??
how long will that take??
5 years?
and then what?
a year setting up a task force to set up a plan to get the frog numbers back to where they belong!!

Its to comply with EU Directives and I believe most of the cost is being met by the EU:)

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 14-09-2010 3:38pm

trebor28 wrote: »

yes thats a tiny amount, how do you know they are declining?
if its so obvious why are they bothering to count them, the time they spend counting them will be time wasted if there will be more gone by the time they have finished.
and what then, spend more time and money investigating why they are declining and then publish a report on these findings and outlining what can be done to counteract these problems??
how long will that take??
5 years?
and then what?
a year setting up a task force to set up a plan to get the frog numbers back to where they belong!!

I'm at a loss to understand you. Why do we count or survey anything then? Why carry out the wetlands suveys, the corncrake surveys, the atlas of breeding birds? Because we need to put real flesh on the situation and use the proper scientific figures to formulate a plan.
Frogs are declining across Europe (hence their EU wide protection) but this research may show a healthy Irish population and guidlines asto what features of particular areas aids their survival.

As for Buzzards eating all the Frogs; so do Herons, Harriers, Kestrals, Otters, and many more. It's part of our diversity.

Oh! and €125k is a pittance.

jwshooter · 14-09-2010 4:17pm

Abel Spoiled Rigging wrote: »

I'm at a loss to understand you. Why do we count or survey anything then? Why carry out the wetlands suveys, the corncrake surveys, the atlas of breeding birds? Because we need to put real flesh on the situation and use the proper scientific figures to formulate a plan.
Frogs are declining across Europe (hence their EU wide protection) but this research may show a healthy Irish population and guidlines asto what features of particular areas aids their survival.

As for Buzzards eating all the Frogs; so do Herons, Harriers, Kestrals, Otters, and many more. It's part of our diversity.

Oh! and €125k is a pittance.

yet again more problems caused my raptors .

Mothman · 14-09-2010 5:03pm

jwshooter wrote: »

yet again more problems caused my raptors .

jwshooter
Please explain what you mean by this statement and how it specifically applies to Buzzards

Feargal as Luimneach · 14-09-2010 6:09pm

Mothman wrote: »

jwshooter
Please explain what you mean by this statement and how it specifically applies to Buzzards

X2

jwshooter · 14-09-2010 6:26pm

Mothman wrote: »

jwshooter
Please explain what you mean by this statement and how it specifically applies to Buzzards

its not a long statement , but i thought it was fairly self explanatory ..

but i will explain any way ,,not alone are raptors/buzzards killing endangered bird ,now there eating endangered frogs .i wrote that slowly for you guys .

To think i almost put my landrover into the heather on the sally gap last nite to miss one ,facker was hopping faster that i thought .

there is no point getting excited with me there facts .

Feargal as Luimneach · 14-09-2010 7:00pm

jwshooter wrote: »

its not a long statement , but i thought it was fairly self explanatory ..

but i will explain any way ,,not alone are raptors/buzzards killing endangered bird ,now there eating endangered frogs .i wrote that slowly for you guys .

To think i almost put my landrover into the heather on the sally gap last nite to miss one ,facker was hopping faster that i thought .

there is no point getting excited with me there facts .

A few Irish birds that would eat frogs/tadpoles:
Red throated-Diver, little grebe, great crested grebe, cormorant, little egret, grey heron, goosander, red-breasted merganser, water rail, coot, black-headed gull, common gull, mediterranean gull, herring gull, lesser black-backed gull, little gull, sandwich tern, common tern, artic tern, black tern, long-eared owl, barn owl, short-eared owl and raven.

I'm probably missing a good few birds as well. Yes jwshooter we should eradicate all these birds to protect frogs:rolleyes:

jwshooter · 14-09-2010 8:44pm

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

A few Irish birds that would eat frogs/tadpoles:
Red throated-Diver, little grebe, great crested grebe, cormorant, little egret, grey heron, goosander, red-breasted merganser, water rail, coot, black-headed gull, common gull, mediterranean gull, herring gull, lesser black-backed gull, little gull, sandwich tern, common tern, artic tern, black tern, long-eared owl, barn owl, short-eared owl and raven.

I'm probably missing a good few birds as well. Yes jwshooter we should eradicate all these birds to protect frogs:rolleyes:

you have several , buzzards , sparrow hawks ,kestrels ,most raptors in fact .magpies ,hooded crows ,jays ,ravens the list goes on .

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 14-09-2010 8:55pm

What?

Mothman · 14-09-2010 10:22pm

jwshooter wrote: »

,now there eating endangered frogs

I was expecting something rather more insightful.

I don't agree it is a problem that frogs are preyed upon by Buzzards. It is what I expect as part of our native wildlife

LostCovey · 14-09-2010 11:50pm

jwshooter wrote: »

you have several , buzzards , sparrow hawks ,kestrels ,most raptors in fact .magpies ,hooded crows ,jays ,ravens the list goes on .

My dearest and most regarded friend, jwshooter,

I feel your pain, and I empathise with your incoherent blurtings. What you lack in eloquence you compensate for in your inarticulate and incomprehensible passion. You are trying to make a point, but everyone is struggling to understand what it is.

Are you saying that because we have relentlessly persecuted one species (Grouse) to the point of extinction, that we should now persecute another element of our native wildlife that occasionally preyed on that species? Lovely. A splendid concept, my man!

Are you also saying that we should make decisions immediately without any scientific basis, but instead putting our blind faith and trust your assurance that it is the best thing to do?

If I am being unfair, perhaps you could explain your point a bit more clearly.

I am not sure what precisely it is that you are struggling to express (but I am fairly sure that I disagree with you!).

I hope you will continue to engage in this discussion. It is fascinating to have an opportunity to debate these issues with someone whose mindset appears to have survived intact from the Victorian era. Pristine and untouched by a century of discovery and revelations about our natural world, surviving with its fixed and resolute views about the ecosystem as something disordered and ungodly that becomes unbalanced without regular applications of gunshot wounds to selected elements. And this is then balanced by a wholly sentimental and irrational defence of other elements of the ecosystem, which are nurtured and defended, so that they can be shot later.

This is the mindset that extinguished all our large raptors.

Your participation here in this forum is a chance we must grasp to our collective breast. It is a bit like having a chance to discuss these issues with the gentry who blew the last Irish buzzards, kites, eagles and ospreys out of the sky. For anthropological reasons alone, it is worth hearing your primitive arguments fully explained, because they appear very fragmented and disjointed as you have presented them.

I would be grateful if you would attempt a fuller exposition of your fossilised philosophy.

It would be an utter tragedy if someone were to convince you of your wrong-headedness before you bequeath the entire zany machinations of your wonky logic to the world.

In the fullness of time when you pass on at a ripe old age, I hope to have raised enough funds to have you stuffed and put in a glass case.

I remain,

Your most obedient servant and admirer,

Sir Loste of Covey

Birdnuts · 15-09-2010 12:37am

jwshooter wrote: »

.

there is no point getting excited with me there facts .

I'm sorry but when it come to facts you don't know your ar%e from your elbow. Frogs are at the bottom of the food chain to the extant that hedgehogs and even shrews feed on them, not to mention small frogs occasionally being eaten by large ones - do you think they should be blown away too:mad:. Frogs are declining due to habitat loss as has been pointed out here on numerous occasions:rolleyes: I'm beginning to think you post such drivel simply to get a reaction and to be honest its becoming rather pathetic and tiresome :mad::mad:

LostCovey · 15-09-2010 12:39am

Birdnuts wrote: »

I'm sorry but when it come to facts you don't know your ar%e from your elbow. Frogs are at the bottom of the food chain to the extant that hedgehogs and even shrews feed on them, not to mention small frogs occasionally being eaten by large ones - do you think they should be blown away too:mad:. Frogs are declining due to habitat loss as has been pointed out here on numerous occasions:rolleyes: I'm beginning to think you post such drivel simply to get a reaction and to be honest its becoming rather pathetic and tiresome :mad::mad:

You must not scare him off with this hostility Birdnuts. He has much to teach us about his culture and the ways of his people.

Let us make this man welcome and learn to interpret his words. I shall question him more closely when he returns, mark well how he answers me, I pray thee.

Forsooth.

Sir Loste of Covey

Birdnuts · 15-09-2010 12:47am

jwshooter wrote: »

you have several , buzzards , sparrow hawks ,kestrels ,most raptors in fact .magpies ,hooded crows ,jays ,ravens the list goes on .

I'm probably being way too optimistic here but whats your point

jwshooter · 15-09-2010 10:59am

LostCovey wrote: »

My dearest and most regarded friend, jwshooter,

I feel your pain, and I empathise with your incoherent blurtings. What you lack in eloquence you compensate for in your inarticulate and incomprehensible passion. You are trying to make a point, but everyone is struggling to understand what it is.

Are you saying that because we have relentlessly persecuted one species (Grouse) to the point of extinction, that we should now persecute another element of our native wildlife that occasionally preyed on that species? Lovely. A splendid concept, my man!

Are you also saying that we should make decisions immediately without any scientific basis, but instead putting our blind faith and trust your assurance that it is the best thing to do?

If I am being unfair, perhaps you could explain your point a bit more clearly.

I am not sure what precisely it is that you are struggling to express (but I am fairly sure that I disagree with you!).

I hope you will continue to engage in this discussion. It is fascinating to have an opportunity to debate these issues with someone whose mindset appears to have survived intact from the Victorian era. Pristine and untouched by a century of discovery and revelations about our natural world, surviving with its fixed and resolute views about the ecosystem as something disordered and ungodly that becomes unbalanced without regular applications of gunshot wounds to selected elements. And this is then balanced by a wholly sentimental and irrational defence of other elements of the ecosystem, which are nurtured and defended, so that they can be shot later.

This is the mindset that extinguished all our large raptors.

Your participation here in this forum is a chance we must grasp to our collective breast. It is a bit like having a chance to discuss these issues with the gentry who blew the last Irish buzzards, kites, eagles and ospreys out of the sky. For anthropological reasons alone, it is worth hearing your primitive arguments fully explained, because they appear very fragmented and disjointed as you have presented them.

I would be grateful if you would attempt a fuller exposition of your fossilised philosophy.

It would be an utter tragedy if someone were to convince you of your wrong-headedness before you bequeath the entire zany machinations of your wonky logic to the world.

In the fullness of time when you pass on at a ripe old age, I hope to have raised enough funds to have you stuffed and put in a glass case.

I remain,

Your most obedient servant and admirer,

Sir Loste of Covey

i have a headache now ..Loste of covey

what part of these ramblings would you like me to address or had you drink taken last nite .. famous grouse i bet .

LostCovey · 15-09-2010 9:23pm

jwshooter wrote: »

i have a headache now ..Loste of covey

what part of these ramblings would you like me to address or had you drink taken last nite .. famous grouse i bet .

That is an outrageous accusation.

Nasal congestion runs in my family.

I suppose I was intrigued at the prospect at engaging with what I might thoughtlessly have considered a pre-Darwinian nihilistic view of nature. I was excited at the prospect of probing your motivation and exploring the reasoning of someone whose musings on such a construct were so intriguingly framed.

Phenomenal opportunity. Quite at a loss as to how precisely to progress it to be honest.

Maybe start by telling me all about your childhood.

LostCovey

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 16-09-2010 1:49pm

Can we get back to discussing Buzzards please? All very amusing kids but take it somewhere else!:rolleyes:

wildlifeboy · 16-09-2010 4:42pm

Ah this is hilarious, I have a whole new found respect for LC, please forgive my previous pm months ago. as regards JW and his opinion on Frogs, Well I for one think that there should be more money spent on Anphibian surveys. having taken part this year in the Dublin IWT Newt survey I think these studies provide valuable information on distribution and habitat loss, population densitys etc. I belieive Ireland is still a stronghold for the Common Frog within Europe and if there is something that our eco system provides which limits the spread of the fungus which is decimating populations through out the world then garnering this data is of the utmost importance. I love Frogs and hope that they do find some concrete data as to why our population is thriving in relation to the continent. <snip>

E39MSport · 16-09-2010 5:16pm

Should the local (frog) population change on a yearly basis due to weather or other factors?

I have seen very few this year in and around the garden compared to previous years. However, I never saw a Pine Marten in the garden before (or anywhere else for that matter) or so many Buzzards as have seen this year.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 16-09-2010 9:12pm

The particularly cold and extended Winter may have had an influence on numbers surviving into Spring. I suspect numbers will recover though.

E39MSport · 16-09-2010 11:08pm

Abel Spoiled Rigging wrote: »

The particularly cold and extended Winter may have had an influence on numbers surviving into Spring. I suspect numbers will recover though.

.. of course. Thank You.

E39MSport · 16-09-2010 11:20pm

@Mothman
I just read the originating thread after reading this twice wondering how could I have been that pi55ed to start a thread and not remember (I read it earlier today also).

Now there are 2 reasons. I'm in Alsace taking onboard everything they have to offer. Earlier today I gave in to the inevitable and assumed I'd been DUI. However, it has since emerged that Mothman has been 'trapping' my thoughts.

Mothman, don't do that to me.

recedite · 17-09-2010 1:40pm

LostCovey wrote: »

He has much to teach us about his culture and the ways of his people.

Its a simple black and white approach to the natural world that can be summed up as "Good animals are useful or tasty to eat. Bad animals compete with us and should be killed".

Re the "endangered" frogs; I see plenty of frogs. Even if there is some habitat loss after drainage works, we still have a damp climate which suits them.

Buzzards and Frogs

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