Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

legal recognition of transgendered people

Options
  • 08-08-2010 8:12pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 40,924 ✭✭✭✭


    As you are probably aware the government is now required under a High Court ruling to recognise legally recognise the "acquired gender" (don't like the term myself but it seems to be the one that is used a lot) and they have set up a working group

    http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Press/PressReleases/2010/Pages/pa300610.aspx
    The Minister has already established an interdepartmental committee – the Gender Recognition Advisory Group – to advise him on the legislation required to comply with the ruling. The group has as its terms of reference to propose heads of a bill to provide for the legal recognition of the acquired gender of transgendered people, the issuing of births certificates reflecting the new gender, granting entitlement to marry in the new gender, and any other provisions consequential on the main provisions. The group is made up of representatives of relevant Government Departments and is expected to report to the Minister in about six months. The group will engage in a public consultation exercise and may consult with experts in the field, as appropriate.

    It might be very useful for members here to answer this public consultation exercise when it does take place so that they have an input into the Irish legislation

    Things that come to my mind:

    In other countries transgendered must divorce a partner or become sterilised before they undergo any sex change operations

    Also I think that some countries (I may be totally wrong about this) recognise legally people who choose not to have any operations but to live as another gender

    personally I think the Irish legislation must amend equality legislation so an equal protection is given for transgendered people as it is to men and women

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



«13

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    Thanks for this Johnny. ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,924 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    I'm going to keep an eye out to see when the public consultation starts - I did see an email from TENI suggesting it will be soon enough

    It might be worthwhile if people are going to make a submission that people should do a little reading of what it is like in other countries - maybe ask people on any mailing lists - I know for example from talking to some people that there have been problems with the UK legislation

    Press for change is a good source of information
    http://www.pfc.org.uk/

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,240 Mod ✭✭✭✭L.Jenkins


    Thats brilliant news and hopefully it will aid in the implementation of further equality based laws that are not inclusive of transgendered people. I too will keep my eye out for any invite of public opinion and voice mine where possible. Will new legislation be published prior to public opinion though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,924 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Thats brilliant news and hopefully it will aid in the implementation of further equality based laws that are not inclusive of transgendered people. I too will keep my eye out for any invite of public opinion and voice mine where possible. Will new legislation be published prior to public opinion though.

    No - the public consultation phase would definitely be first before the heads of bill is published - from the email that I read I would even expect the public consultation phase within the next few weeks. The aim of the public consultation phase is to assist in drawing up the legislation

    also there will be the usual protest groups putting in their submissions so it is important that the working group receives as many trans-positive submissions as possible from supportive individuals and organisations.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,240 Mod ✭✭✭✭L.Jenkins


    Well could we have a sticky and a brainstorming group for positive input. I know areas that should not go unchecked, discrimination and equal protection from hate crimes.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 40,924 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Yeah, well why not start brainstorming now?

    Are you thinking about doing some sort of group submission? I do think that as many individual submissions as possible will be helpful

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,240 Mod ✭✭✭✭L.Jenkins


    I intend on making a submission, i was hoping i dont miss something but im sure it will be covered either way.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,924 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    FYI

    http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Policy/Legislation/Pages/genderrecognition.aspx
    Gender Recognition – Public Consultation

    On foot of a High Court ruling that Ireland is in breach of the European Convention on Human Rights in not having a process to legally recognise the acquired gender of transsexual persons, the Government has decided to introduce legislation to comply with the judgement.

    To progress this decision, the Minister for Social Protection has established an interdepartmental group – the Gender Recognition Advisory Group - with the following terms of reference:

    To advise the Minister for Social Protection on the legislation required to provide for legal recognition of the acquired gender of transsexuals. In particular to propose the heads of a bill to provide for:—

    the establishment of a process for legal recognition of the acquired gender of transsexual persons who have made the transition from one gender to another;

    the establishment of a gender recognition register;

    the granting of entitlement to marry in the legally recognised reassigned gender; and

    any other provisions as may be deemed necessary consequent on the main provisions of the Bill.

    To help progress its work, the Group hereby invites comments and proposals on relevant issues from interested parties, and the general public.

    Proposals and comments should be submitted by e-mail to the secretary of the Group at: grag@welfare.ie - not later than Friday September 17th 2010.

    The Group may invite individuals or representatives of groups to make presentations at a later stage.

    Basic Scope of Proposed legislation

    The basic scope of the legislation is to authorise the Minister to set up and operate a scheme whereby the State recognises the changed gender of transsexual persons.

    Recognition of the changed gender of an individual will be signified by a formal statement that the person's new gender is henceforth to be regarded as their gender for all purposes.

    Outline of Process

    The Group’s initial view is that the basic outline of the scheme should be as follows:

    The person seeking recognition of his/her changed gender makes an application to the Minister, or a decision making body designated under the Act, seeking to have the new gender recognised.

    The applicant submits evidence in support of the application.

    The Minister, or the decision making body, examines the application and the evidence and makes a decision to either accept or reject the application.

    The Minister or the decision making body, issues a formal statement to the successful applicant recognising the new gender.

    There will be an appeal process for unsuccessful applicants.

    The Group invites submissions on the proposed process.

    Principles

    The Group proposes certain guiding principles to inform the design of the decision making process and the setting of the qualification criteria:

    The process should fully respect the rights and dignity of the applicant.

    The terms and conditions of the scheme should not deter potential applicants from applying.

    The criteria should be capable of being interpreted in a consistent and objective manner.

    The process and the criteria should be such as to command the respect and trust of the applicants and the wider community in terms of its integrity and fairness .

    The process should be completed in a timely manner.

    Respect for privacy and confidentiality is a key requirement.

    The Group invites submissions on these draft principles.

    Qualification Criteria

    The qualifying criteria for the scheme to include the following:

    Minimum Age

    The Group proposes that applications should only be accepted from persons aged 18 years or older.

    Irish Residents

    The Group proposes that applications should only be accepted from:

    Persons ordinarily resident in Ireland; or
    Persons whose births are registered in Ireland.

    Other

    Submissions are invited on other possible qualifying criteria, for example:

    Should persons in an existing marriage or civil partnership be excluded?

    Submissions are invited on these points.

    Acceptance Criteria

    In making its decision the Minister or official decision making body will require a level of evidence to the effect that the applicant has made, or is making a genuine transition from the original gender to the opposite preferred gender.

    The Group invites submissions as to the evidence that should be required of the person making the application.

    Decision Making Process

    The Group invites submissions on the type of decision making process which should be established. Options could include:

    Judicial or Court - model whereby applicants would apply to a designated existing court;

    Statutory Panel - model whereby an expert independent panel would be appointed under the legislation to make the gender recognition decisions;

    Gender Recognition Certificate and Recording of Data

    The Group proposes the following procedures relating to the process following the recognition decision:

    The Minister or the decision making body will issue a gender recognition certificate to the successful applicant.

    Recognition of the new gender of an individual will apply from the date of issue of the gender recognition certificate. All rights, responsibilities and consequences of actions by the person in their original gender role prior to the date of recognition would remain unaffected.

    The issue of each new gender recognition certificate will be notified to the Registrar General of the GRO.

    The question as to notification of other official bodies remains to be considered.

    The General Register Office (GRO) will be required to keep a confidential register of all persons whose acquired gender is recognised.

    In the case of persons whose birth is already registered with the GRO, the successful applicant would be entitled, on application, to a new birth certificate with the new gender and new names indicated.

    This certificate would be indistinguishable in format from the standard birth certificate.

    The creation of a birth entry in a register maintained for the purposes of gender recognition will not affect the original entry in the register of births.

    Issue of a new birth certificate showing the new gender role will not extinguish the original birth certificate. Both will continue to be available for use and be legally valid.

    The Group invites submissions on these proposals.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,924 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Any thoughts

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 62 ✭✭Lilith306


    From reading the outline it sounds like it would be the same procedure as you would use to update your gender on your passport.

    Does it say anywhere you have to have had the OP because if you can get a GRC without having SRS first it would seem to be better then the English system.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 40,924 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Lilith306 wrote: »
    From reading the outline it sounds like it would be the same procedure as you would use to update your gender on your passport.

    Does it say anywhere you have to have had the OP because if you can get a GRC without having SRS first it would seem to be better then the English system.
    No it doesn't say but perhaps you could put something along those lines in a submission?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 62 ✭✭Lilith306


    Well it is better if you do not need it, so I wouldn't want to go giving them ideas.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,924 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Lilith306 wrote: »
    Well it is better if you do not need it, so I wouldn't want to go giving them ideas.

    Can you explain a bit more about this?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 62 ✭✭Lilith306


    In England don't you need to have been full time for 2 years and have had SRS to get a GRC, from the way it is put above it might be easier to get over here with the way the info was posted above if SRS is not needed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,924 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Lilith306 wrote: »
    In England don't you need to have been full time for 2 years and have had SRS to get a GRC, from the way it is put above it might be easier to get over here with the way the info was posted above if SRS is not needed.

    I don't know exactly what the rules are but I'm trying to get you to maybe explain a bit more so that we could all get a better understanding

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 304 ✭✭PhantomBeaker


    Johnnymcg wrote: »
    I don't know exactly what the rules are but I'm trying to get you to maybe explain a bit more so that we could all get a better understanding

    @Lilith: As far as I can remember, the Gender Recognition Act doesn't require surgery in order to get a recognition cert, but it definitely helps. I could be wrong on that... just I remember when the GRA was just the GRB (Or Gerbil to its friends), and that was an issue. (Just looked it up. Looks like section 3(3)(a) doesn't specify surgery but does say "(a) the applicant has undergone or is undergoing treatment for the purpose of modifying sexual characteristics" - so it's definitely hardline proof, but not necessary if you have good references on your side)

    @Johnnymcg: The reason why it's not a great idea to have a requirement for genital surgery in the guidelines is for several reasons:

    For FtM trans-people, the surgery is VERY expensive and not very effective at the moment. When I say expensive, I mean that you could buy one of the really nice cars that they have on Top Gear (basically a low-slung penis on 4 wheels) for that kind of money, and you'd probably get a lot more satisfaction from it.

    Then there are people who will not have genital surgery in their lifetime, but do want to be recognised in their new role. Reasons include (but are not limited to):
    • Poverty - should recognition of gender be given purely on the grounds of who can afford it?
    • Medical reasons - if you have a history of thrombosis or something similar, I could imagine a surgeon would refuse to operate)
    • Risks - I know folk who nearly bled to death due to post-op complications. Also for MtF surgery, you face some significant nerve damage (I think best case is something like 25% nerve damage - that's possibly optimistic, but I'm in work, so I don't really want to google the stats)
    • Last, but by no means least... Some people are happy with what they have - trans-people transition to be comfortable in themselves, and if they need to get an operation to get appropriately recognised, it is a case of compromising oneself one way or the other.

    Basically, people can be non-op (as opposed to "pre-op" which suggests an intent to get surgery at some point in the future) for any number of reasons, and limiting this recognition process only means that a good chunk of people who can benefit from this are going to be left in the cold.

    Hope that makes it a little clearer.
    Aoife


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,924 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Thanks Aoife

    Yes was the clearer explanation I was looking for

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 54 ✭✭SassyGirl_1


    I'm just curious about the process which will eventually come from these suggestions. Is it a case of, everyone with a concern/input/suggestion submits these, the Group looks at these, picks what they deem to be the best path/procedure, and it becomes law. Or will they publish a draft bill (I assume its going to be a bill) for further study/amendment before making it law?

    Things to be consider would be stuff like PPS number, are you issued with a new one or are your tax records amends. If they are how will they ensure confidentiality there?

    There was a case in Austrailia (I think) where the police disclosed to some individual when he was being charged/arrested for something, his partner used to be a man. She had transitioned and never told him. The police took the p*ss out of him, he went balistic, went home and killed her.

    Now I know this kind of thing is extreme, but how, if they intend to share information with other bodies, do they prevent something like that happening.

    Or how are they going to determine what relevent bodies should and shouldn't know. What will be the procedure to prevent a body with whom they share information with, from passing that information onto another body/organisation?

    Health Insurance/Car Insurance - will the issueing of a cert be enough to ensure any any public/private company you may deal with to treat you as your aquired gender?


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,924 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    I'm just curious about the process which will eventually come from these suggestions. Is it a case of, everyone with a concern/input/suggestion submits these, the Group looks at these, picks what they deem to be the best path/procedure, and it becomes law. Or will they publish a draft bill (I assume its going to be a bill) for further study/amendment before making it law?
    - Yes they will publish the heads of a bill - a draft bill - obviously the religious cranks will be writing to them too which is why they should receive as many
    Things to be consider would be stuff like PPS number, are you issued with a new one or are your tax records amends. If they are how will they ensure confidentiality there?

    There was a case in Austrailia (I think) where the police disclosed to some individual when he was being charged/arrested for something, his partner used to be a man. She had transitioned and never told him. The police took the p*ss out of him, he went balistic, went home and killed her.

    Now I know this kind of thing is extreme, but how, if they intend to share information with other bodies, do they prevent something like that happening.

    Or how are they going to determine what relevent bodies should and shouldn't know. What will be the procedure to prevent a body with whom they share information with, from passing that information onto another body/organisation?

    Health Insurance/Car Insurance - will the issueing of a cert be enough to ensure any any public/private company you may deal with to treat you as your aquired gender?

    I think broadly those headings would come under Data Protection and Equal Treatment so maybe if you have some reccomendations in those areas then send them in

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,924 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    any thoughts?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 40,924 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 259 ✭✭Eebs


    The main issue I dislike about the UK legislation is the mandatory divorce/annulment of potentially solvent and happy marriages if one partner wants to change their birth cert. Obviously this is down to 'gay marraige' factors and I think it just highlights that Trans activism is rooted in LGB activism.

    If we had gay marriage there would be no issue on a trans individual for example changing her birth cert to reflect her gender identity as a woman and still keeping her marriage to a woman. especially if children are involved it seems crazy to dissolve functioning relationships.

    The other issue, which has been raised, is the requirement for surgery, which I hope isn't put through ESPECIALLY if it specifically states the removal of sex organs. I think it's unlikely unfortunately though that people will be able to be granted an amended birth cert without some form of 'gender surgery'.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,240 Mod ✭✭✭✭L.Jenkins


    Eebs wrote: »
    The main issue I dislike about the UK legislation is the mandatory divorce/annulment of potentially solvent and happy marriages if one partner wants to change their birth cert. Obviously this is down to 'gay marraige' factors and I think it just highlights that Trans activism is rooted in LGB activism.

    If we had gay marriage there would be no issue on a trans individual for example changing her birth cert to reflect her gender identity as a woman and still keeping her marriage to a woman. especially if children are involved it seems crazy to dissolve functioning relationships.

    The Civil Partnership bill while a major step step forward in Ireland for the LGBT Community, is the attempts of a few to try and shush the minority to satisfy many. While I support Civil Partnership, I don't think it should stop there. I'd much rather Gay Marriage instead with equal rights and not some watered down version.
    Eebs wrote: »
    The other issue, which has been raised, is the requirement for surgery, which I hope isn't put through ESPECIALLY if it specifically states the removal of sex organs. I think it's unlikely unfortunately though that people will be able to be granted an amended birth cert without some form of 'gender surgery'.

    Surgery typically states the removal of sex organs for MTF trans people and top surgery for FTM as far as I am aware. I also hope that this isn't a requirement for one to obtain a change to their birth cert as not all can afford the surgery or want it for that matter. In my opinion, that requirement goes back to the day in which Psychiatrists and Endocrinologists were regarded as 'gatekeepers' by the trans community as they were selective about who they let transition. Honestly, it's like holding a gun to someones head.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,924 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 259 ✭✭Eebs


    The Civil Partnership bill while a major step step

    Surgery typically states the removal of sex organs for MTF trans people and top surgery for FTM as far as I am aware. I also hope that this isn't a requirement for one to obtain a change to their birth cert as not all can afford the surgery or want it for that matter. In my opinion, that requirement goes back to the day in which Psychiatrists and Endocrinologists were regarded as 'gatekeepers' by the trans community as they were selective about who they let transition. Honestly, it's like holding a gun to someones head.

    Actually in terms of passport legislation it's any surgery at all regardless of MTF or FTM direction. Usually it's all about the gonads or it's not - regardless if it's the lads or the ladies we're talking about. I don't see why people should be forced to give up their sex organs if they don't want to. There are loads of reasons not to want any operation including SRS. (Not to mention people who'd love to but can't have it.)

    Really it's hardly a 'swan princess' kind of moment where you wake up from surgery and suddenly you've come through some massive transformation like the tabloids suggest (like you're magically a woman now you're post op - please). Any 'transformation' takes place long before SRS in my opinion.


    Also speculation means nothing really, we need to fight our corner on all these issues. There is no real way to know how this legislation will go in.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,240 Mod ✭✭✭✭L.Jenkins


    So by that reasoning you can't actually change your birthcert either because, in most instances a birthcert is proof of identity to obtain a passport in the first place.

    If this is actually the case, as I said before using a quality of english not befitting a man or woman, it's bullshít that one would require surgery, before they can legally change their name and gender on their birthcert on other documents. It should be a case of reaching a certain point in your transition, know it's what you want then obtain a letter from a GP/Psychiatrist permitting one to change their details. Surgery is one more hurdle that should not have to be overcome as transitions can be stressful enough for some.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 259 ✭✭Eebs


    So by that reasoning you can't actually change your birthcert either because, in most instances a birthcert is proof of identity to obtain a passport in the first place.

    If this is actually the case, as I said before using a quality of english not befitting a man or woman, it's bullshít that one would require surgery, before they can legally change their name and gender on their birthcert on other documents. It should be a case of reaching a certain point in your transition, know it's what you want then obtain a letter from a GP/Psychiatrist permitting one to change their details. Surgery is one more hurdle that should not have to be overcome as transitions can be stressful enough for some.

    You can get a temporary passport in your preferred gender marker (which you need to keep renewing) if you're on hormones and have a psych letter.
    To get a permenant one you need some kind of surgery that can qualify as a gender surgery (FFS, top surgery, vocal surgery - anything). This may not even be totally accurate still. It was when I went through the system which is around 3 years ago.

    I really need to get updated on all this. I'd love if people maintained / updated an information site with this info on it but it's hard to keep up with internal changes in policy and sometimes they don't like you knowing it.

    Edit:
    and in terms of practicality having your passport changed is infinitely more useful on a day to day basis then your birth cert willl be but it's still important to get done.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 62 ✭✭Lilith306


    Eebs wrote: »
    You can get a temporary passport in your preferred gender marker (which you need to keep renewing) if you're on hormones and have a psych letter.
    To get a permenant one you need some kind of surgery that can qualify as a gender surgery (FFS, top surgery, vocal surgery - anything). This may not even be totally accurate still. It was when I went through the system which is around 3 years ago.

    I really need to get updated on all this. I'd love if people maintained / updated an information site with this info on it but it's hard to keep up with internal changes in policy and sometimes they don't like you knowing it.

    I got a full passport with the gender marker changed before any surgery recently, all they looked for was my deed pool and a letter from my GP that i was on hormones and living fulltime. This was only a few months ago though so the system might have changed


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 259 ✭✭Eebs


    Is that a full passport Lilith or a temp one(2 years)?


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 62 ✭✭Lilith306


    Eebs wrote: »
    Is that a full passport Lilith or a temp one(2 years)?

    Full ten year one.


Advertisement