Discuss Surfing forum policy changes here

What has been said above is generally reasonable, however one of the difficulties I do see is that many of us who contributed to the original discussions were banned for merely being 'surfer scum' by the admin. Just because of the side of the argument we found ourselves on.

These bans should be lifted by the admins now

There is a very knowledgeable online surfer community and as the traffic on other forums shows, are very willing to help and discuss surfing issues, especially technical. It is unfortunate that this forum lost that goodwill and I reckon it will take some time for it to come back.

This current debate can only help that. This forum, if it is to be of any real help to learners, improvers, intermediates or whatever, needs to follow where others have been successful.

The key issue here is the not just the controversial map (which was developed, stickied and updated by certain people for all the wrong reasons) but the concept of highlighting sensitive surf spots. As previously discussed, these are sensitive for several reasons, issues with access / landowners, spots that are dangerous, spots that cannot handle a crowd at the peak, environmentally sensitive spots etc. A rule of thumb that is generally accepted is the Stormriders guide; if it is in that, it can be discussed.

A forum can be a community, but all communities need their rules and customs. In this case, the admin need to listen to the mods who are now listening and engaging with those who know what they are talking about.

I do not mean to come across as preachy or as though I speak for all of those previously banned, but there were TWO nasty sides to what happened previously and it is too much to expect everyone to forgive and forget.

kippy wrote: »

Okay,
If the rule were put in place not to name spots, it would be pretty difficult to have a rational conversation about surfing. There are a good few people on this board who appear to respect this unwritten rule anyway.....
Kippy

There is nothing to stop you saying for example “I’ll be on North Donegal at a wedding and don’t know any breaks – any help please PM me?” that’s the accepted way of doing it.


And it's only the lesser know spots.

It is better to refer to sensitive spots rather than secret. Secret sounds selfish and is giving the wrong impression to those who do not know what they are talking about. Sensitive is more appropriate, see my previous posting above.

kodute wrote: »

Thats exactly what should happen. Nobody is saying invite everyone back for a love-in with their favourite admin, just forget what happened and move on. This is about policy changes for the benefit of this forum for the future.



They are not a few, they are the majority of surfers. They don't post here because of this reason. If you don't understand how this can irritate other surfers then ask them, read other forums, find out why nobody names these (very few) sensitive spots. Then try to understand why its a bad idea to keep them up.

I completely understand why a some surfers dont like naming spots publicilly. I've lived by the sea almost all my life.
To be honest, I am not sure how using PM's would make this okay either......surely word is going to get out either way either via PM's and word of mouth or on a public forum.
The majority of surfers I know, and I know a few of varying levels dont post on any forum, those that do dont seem to mind either way.

Anyway, sorry, this isnt relevent for the discussion.
Kippy

frag420 wrote: »

Firstly I agree that referring to these spots as secret spots sounds somewhat selfish and childish. Sensitive is a much better way of referring to these spots. I believe these spots are kept under wraps for good reasons such as environmental impact, trespass etc. I dont believe that they should be broadcast to the greater surfing community. I do however believe the maps should remain as a reference but left as they are with no more additions to them.

From experience when I have been to lesser known spots or sensitive spots I have noticed that they are beyond my surfing experience and thus are only used by the few that know how to surf these waves and so I have refrained from surfing there. Having loads of people ascending on these spots can sometimes lead to injury, aggression amongst surfers as some surfers do not have the experience to surf at these spots ( like me ) . As i have mentioned in one of my previous threads RE surfing I believe people should know their limits when it comes to surfing in Ireland and surf accordingly.

I have taken the time to read the original thread from 2008. I think that as a forum/community there is room for everyone and I think that all should be forgiven.

Anyways thats my two cents. I have three cents left. Il keep that for another thread,

frAg

I think your being naive if you think that everything will be forgiven and forgotten and we can still keep the maps up. We can put the past behind us and move on if the maps are taken down. They are the constant reminder to some people of what happened.

The maps will remain on google. Nothing will change there. In fact if you seach "map surfing ireland" its on the first page.
Tin foil hats be assuaged: Freedom of information is not at risk. Just a policy change in line with every other forum.

Voted Yes.

I think it should be removed.
I don't believe that spots should be kept secret, but just because you know where some wave is, doesn't mean you should surf it. All to many times been out on waves where beginners would do better to go somewhere else. They'll injure themselves and/or other surfers.......

i was absolutely in favour of putting up the map when the first debate was around and i had no idea about surfing i was all about the freedom of speech and you cant have these grumpy old surfers keeping the kids away from the sea

in reality thats not what it is about at all and to think it has anything to do with free speech is simply a misunderstanding of the issue


the problem with the result of keeping the map up is that the old experience pyramid on boards is very bottom heavy as far as i can see. and this is because experienced surfers understand why this unwritten rule is there and agree with it. do you not think it is wise to listen to the experienced peoples opinions? an opinion that is after all a majority opinion among surfers?

because of this bottom heavy pyramid once surfers get some experience under their belt they find they have to go to other forums to learn more adn get more experienced advice somewhere else.this is not good for the users of boards or the owners of boards as their goal is to keep as many people here for as long as they can

the reasons for the rule are varied but there are two main ones overcrowding and safety

breaks get overcrowded quickly when they are working and this ruins it for everyone and breeds localism which is nasty and unwelcome. crowds of experienced surfers find ways to get on and treat eachother with respect(generally) when it comes to dropping in on eachother etc but when you throw a bunch of novices into these crowds who dont know any better or should know better but dont care tempers flare quickly

the safety one is obvious and i dont think needs further explaining

the one other sport i know of were naming / 'burning' spots will get you almost immedietely ostricised from the community(way way faster than you will in surfing) is base jumping. i am lucky enough to have some very experienced jumpers as friends who will bring me with them but whenever they are bringing me somewhere i havnt been before they make it clear that while i can come i dont have 'bring other people there' rights because i have no idea what im doing basically.

this isnt because they dont want anyone else to have fun its because they dont want anyone dieing while doing something stupid at their spot and the inevitable attention this will bring upon them and probably cause the spot to get shut down.

this is the same as surfing the experienced surfers dont want to ruin anyone funs just the same as they dont want you to ruin their fun. its a pretty close community when you properly get into it i have found(i have somewhat been unnaturally thrown in the middle being completely unable to surf but hang out with alot of them due to college) and there are very few barriers in place. as you get better and better and more and more into it you will quickly find yourself getting more and more texts and emails asking you do you want to come here and there and another place you never knew existed because they know you have the ability and they know you love it and your not going to do some stupid noob move that puts yourself or them or the spot at risk

youngblood wrote: »

If the majority of old surfing contributors have left to go on to other forums is there really any point in trying to change forum policy to attract them back?


Surely there are enough newer members to give info and advice?!?

If they deem Boards.ie not worthy enough of a forum to contribute on, then their mind is pretty much made up.

Surely Boards should be focussed on attracting those who wish to give advice and guidance?

(The idea of secret spots does seem a little elitist-secrets are there to keep people in the know and keep others out, which doesnt do much for improving the positive attitude to/of surfers)

Just my 2 cents

What people don't seem to realise is that this issue is bigger than boards' surfing community such as it is. The no naming convention is accepted by surfers the world over and what's pissing off the surfing community is that boards has taken it upon itself to tell surfers what best for them. To add insult to injury the map was put together by 2 boards members who never surfed in their lives.

There are plenty of new members here who are more than willing to give advice but you will find that the vast majority are relatively new to surfing. More experienced surfers will not offer advice because they fundamentally disagree with the spot naming policy on this forum. Forums such as longboardireland and irishsurfer have members who have been surfing for years and are more than willing to give advice but they will never name sensitive spots online.

Have a read of this to see what happens when sensitive spots can't handle a crowd. It may sound extreme but I know formerly quiet spots in my area that are turning into this.

NickDrake wrote: »

Here is my opinion. They should never have gone up and should be removed.

Right thats my rant over.

If this desends into a slagging match then you'll be handing them a good reason why all surfers are stuck up d***s - yes a lot of the posters here are clueless beginners - sorry but it's true but we all had to start somewhere

C-13 I would never take anything to do with surfing to the feed back last time they didn't give it a fair hearing and were wrong. People who knew nothing about surfing imposed their own agenda

spaceHopper wrote: »

C-13 I would never take anything to do with surfing to the feed back last time they didn't give it a fair hearing and were wrong. People who knew nothing about surfing imposed their own agenda

Moderation of a forum issues will always be looked at by an admin, if its posted on the helpdesk then only admin should be able to reply to you so there can be no outside interference.

If theres an is issue its in the users best interest to raise them, despite popular belief the forums are here for the users, the moderators are just volunteers who help out with the day to day operation.

The link should definitely be removed, there's a good few posts already giving reasons why. xxyyzz, dmg, PeakOutput, Old Goat plus others

I'm definitely not someone how follows traditions just because they are traditions, but the not naming spots tradition has good logic behind them, mainly safety for everyone.

Some people seem to think it's selfish surfers keeping stuff to themselves but that's not what it 's about. I know it may seem a bit snobbish about being shown the waves when you are ready, but this works. More experienced surfers can point out to the new surfer any important information like access issues or safety issues in the water.

I didn't take part in the original "discussion" but read the threads and it did seem like the map was kept in place just to spite the surfers who opposed to it being there. Yes I know there was threats made as well.

I'd definitely support the Stormriders/Magicseaweed tradition, i.e. only publicly talking about spots that are listed there. But it would need the mods help to quickly edit posts where sensitive spots have been named.

Just a quick reply to the person who said PMing is the same as naming publicly. I don't agree with this, if I were to pm you with a sensitive spot I'd be sure to tell you all the info you needed to know and trust you that if you were bringing someone else you'd provide them with the same info. Sure all spots gradually enter the wider community's knowledge but by that time the idea is, hopefully, that any info, i.e. access or safety issues, is public knowledge as well.

voted yes to remove the map for the same reasons listed above. I think sensitive spots is a better term.
access can be a big issue. farmer john passes no heed to a couple of guys at the weekend passing through his field minding what they do. add 20 plus surfers breaking fences etc and then he tells all to piss off threatening tresspass etc.

On the other sports situation I am involved in freediving and spearfishing and on the forum a well known poster give out a spot for bass and scallops. The unwritten rule ( and there are written legal rules too) is take what you will eat for the dinner basicly. The guy who requested the info took a whole lot more and now naming of spots for fishing/hunting is only by pm and only when you know the person or someone vouches for them not being a complete tool.

Other spots just cant handle the parking of 5-10 cars and vans and pisses off not the local surfers but the locals that live there if it makes their drive home a hassle.

Kudos for having the debate at least.