"UK govt regret at McAnespie killing"

gurramok · 27-07-2009 11:41pm #1

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0727/mcanespiea.html

The British government has expressed its regret to the family of a Catholic man shot dead by a soldier at a border checkpoint in Co Tyrone 21 years ago.

24-year-old Aidan McAnespie was shot in the back by a British soldier at a border checkpoint while on his way to a GAA match.

A statement from British Defence Secretary Bob Ainsworth said he 'recognised the pain and suffering' of Mr McAnespie's family.
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It was a matter of deep regret that Mr McAnespie had been killed by a bullet fired by a soldier which ricocheted from the road, the statement added.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0727/breaking37.htm

It took 21 years. About time.

Is this the first time ever that the British govt has expressed 'regret' as a result of their security force actions?(pending Bloody Sunday inquiry outcome)

Run_to_da_hills · 28-07-2009 12:19am

About time.

RIP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsqlRTJhE98

seanybiker · 28-07-2009 12:26am

tis about time is right

Bottle_of_Smoke · 28-07-2009 1:30pm

Very moving speech from Aidan McAnespie's niece. An apology for not charging Jonathon Holden with murder, or Holden admitting the crime would be more appropriate but at least its some closure for McAnespie's family.

sceptre · 28-07-2009 1:34pm

I've deleted a few sniping posts of silliness from two posters. No sniping posts of silliness please, especially from people who don't intend to be sniping or silly (I assume).

futurehope · 28-07-2009 4:28pm

Accidental shooting 21 years ago. UK government apologies. Hardly news is it?

I wonder when Irish Republicans will begin their death by death apology to each family concerned for the thousands of deliberate murders they committed?

Still, the details are all on record and this time they won't be able to gloss over them or re-write them.

FlutterinBantam · 28-07-2009 4:58pm

While not condoning the murder of Mr McAnespie, it was despicable, never heard much apology from the faceless thugs who murdered innocent people in NI on behalf of "Irish Freedom".

Some people seem to think that responsibility is all on one side.

A Dub in Glasgo · 28-07-2009 8:44pm

There was nothing accidental about the shooting!

gurramok · 28-07-2009 9:04pm

futurehope wrote:

I wonder when Irish Republicans will begin their death by death apology to each family concerned for the thousands of deliberate murders they committed?

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

While not condoning the murder of Mr McAnespie, it was despicable, never heard much apology from the faceless thugs who murdered innocent people in NI on behalf of "Irish Freedom".

Some people seem to think that responsibility is all on one side.

If they are thugs, thugs don't generally apologise as they are thugs and thugs are lawbreakers by nature.

The British army are not supposed to be thugs and they are supposed to uphold the law hence they are accountable to the population they 'guard' and 'serve'.

Unless of course you think the republican side are not thugs or terrorists and it was a real 'war' and both sides are equal.

Hagar · 28-07-2009 9:20pm

Here's a quote from the BBC

The soldier who fired the fatal shot claimed his hands were wet, causing him to accidentally fire the machine-gun when he was moving it inside a sanger.
However, a PSNI Historical Enquiries Team (HET) report released last year called this the "least likely version" of what happened.

I can only guess at the soul searching that went on in the PSNI before they made that declaration. In one way it's a good omen that the PSNI could bring themselves to admit that, in itself that bodes well for the future. However it says a lot that the British Govt is prepared to go along with the "least likely vesion" of the incident. Can they not face the truth? They still have a long way to go and and a lot to learn about the Irish people. Hopefully they are willing.

The only way forward is for all of us to accept the truth of the horrors that happened regardless of who caused them and forgive them. Not forget them, we don't want to hide what happened in case it happens again. There were atrocities on both sides. Fact, undeniable fact. For one side to keep up the pretence of being squeaky clean would be laughable if it wasn't so serious.

futurehope · 28-07-2009 9:28pm

What's laughable is to compare the thousands of deliberate and pre-meditated murders carried out by Irish Republicans with those deaths (a far smaller number) caused by The British Army, whose presence in Northern Ireland was due to The Republican murder campaign. There is no comparison and never will be, no matter how hard Irish Nationalists try and make one stick.

Not this time lads.

GuanYin · 28-07-2009 9:53pm

futurehope wrote: »

What's laughable is to compare the thousands of deliberate and pre-meditated murders carried out by Irish Republicans with those deaths (a far smaller number) caused by The British Army, whose presence in Northern Ireland was due to The Republican murder campaign. There is no comparison and never will be, no matter how hard Irish Nationalists try and make one stick.

Not this time lads.

Futurehope, please link sources to that claim before posting here again.

The study I see referenced puts the IRA responsible deaths at ~1,800, which accounts for less than half the total number.

That is a U of Ulster study btw.

Where are your sources from?

leincar · 28-07-2009 10:14pm

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

There was nothing accidental about the shooting!

I suppose every murder by the I.R.A. was?

When are people ever going to let go? If you want to move on and build a just society that is exactly what you have to do.

A Dub in Glasgo · 28-07-2009 10:16pm

leincar wrote: »

I suppose every murder by the I.R.A. was?

Of course not... what a strange thing to ask

Hagar · 28-07-2009 10:22pm

leincar wrote:

If you want to move on and build a just society that is exactly what you have to do.

Isn't that what's happening? Nobody, and I do mean nobody, wants violence and death and suffering. The only way forward IMHO is for every body to accept that there is right and wrong on both sides. None of us are perfect, none of us are beyond reproach. But for me to really let my guard down and accept my frailties I must believe that all sides will do the same. For anybody in the process to continue to pretend that they are divinely right and have done no wrong... well it's going to undermine the whole thing isn't it?

Fratton Fred · 28-07-2009 11:00pm

I would hazard a guess and say there is more to come on this, which is possibly why the minister was relatively reserved over the apology.

dresden8 · 28-07-2009 11:07pm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I would hazard a guess and say there is more to come on this, which is possibly why the minister was relatively reserved over the apology.

Yes, normally guns are kept cleared and safe unless under attack.

Somebody either fncked up large scale or they intended to kill him.

There is no middle ground.

Bottle_of_Smoke · 28-07-2009 11:07pm

futurehope wrote: »

What's laughable is to compare the thousands of deliberate and pre-meditated murders carried out by Irish Republicans with those deaths (a far smaller number) caused by The British Army, whose presence in Northern Ireland was due to The Republican murder campaign. There is no comparison and never will be, no matter how hard Irish Nationalists try and make one stick.

Not this time lads.

Why bring up the IRA in this thread? McAnespie wasn't in the IRA, he was going to a sports game. He was a civillian murdered by the security forces of his country when he was walking through a checkpoint. He wasn't causing trouble, he wasn't carrying weapons, he wasn't protesting for civil rights, he was simply going to a sports game. You're free to start a thread on IRA atrocities any time you want, why bring it up in a thread about a man who had no connection to the IRA? Is it that scary to you that one British Army man might have been a bad person?

I'm getting really sick of you approaching every topic as if every boards poster is a die hard republican. Its almost as if you want that to be the case so you can justify your bitterness. No one mentioned the IRA, no one suggested this kind of incident is what encouraged people to join republican terrorist groups. It was simply a thread about a government doing the decent thing and apologising to a family over wrongdoing by its forces.

Just get it into your head - being Irish does not mean you support the IRA and their murder campaign!

Theres a site called www.pulseresources.org you might enjoy. Recent topics include posters discussing why Kevin McDaid deserved to die.

dlofnep · 28-07-2009 11:12pm

What ahs the IRA to do with this thread?

This thread is about a possible cold-blooded murder of an innocent man by the British army. The evidence suggested that the accounts made by the soldier were near impossible, and that it was the least likely possibility.

All evidence suggests that this man was murdered, and the British Government should do more than just offer regret - They should apologise for the murder of an Irish civilian, and while they are at it - apologise for the murder of further civilians in Derry & Ballymurphy.

pablomakaveli · 28-07-2009 11:25pm

The difference between this incident and the IRA murders was that the man who killed McAnespie was a professional soldier in the British army who's duty is to protect people like the man he shot.

The IRA are terrorists and terrorists rarely apologize. By right they should but generally don't.

However if a professional soldier in any national army killed an innocent civilian the least that should be expected is an apology or admission of wrong-doing. It's good to say a statement of regret made in this case.

Erin Go Brath · 29-07-2009 1:04am

The British Govt will have a lot more 'regret' to express in the coming years i suspect. Expressing regret at MI5 security force involvement and collusion with the UVF in the Dublin and Monaghan bombings is one i'm looking forward to if we ever see the day. :rolleyes:

Exile 1798 · 29-07-2009 6:38am

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I would hazard a guess and say there is more to come on this, which is possibly why the minister was relatively reserved over the apology.

It wasnt an apology.

It was an expression of regret. Two very different things.

FlutterinBantam · 29-07-2009 9:23am

dlofnep wrote: »

What ahs the IRA to do with this thread?

This thread is about a possible cold-blooded murder of an innocent man by the British army. The evidence suggested that the accounts made by the soldier were near impossible, and that it was the least likely possibility.

All evidence suggests that this man was murdered, and the British Government should do more than just offer regret - They should apologise for the murder of an Irish civilian, and while they are at it - apologise for the murder of further civilians in Derry & Ballymurphy.

Has anyone been convicted of murder in this event??

What "murders" should they apologise for in 'Derry and Ballymurphy.?

Seems to be a lot of one sided debate in this thread.

gurramok · 29-07-2009 9:31am

DUP reaction: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0728/1224251488538.html

However DUP deputy leader Nigel Dodds insisted the British army had nothing to apologise for.

“As far as the DUP is concerned, the army and the security forces generally have no apology to make as organisations for what they did in Northern Ireland. On the contrary, we believe the army deserves praise for their actions in fighting terrorism.”

Unreal. Hope it does not reflect the general view of the average Unionist person.

If that was a NI soccer supporter from the Unionist community shot by the Irish army at a border crossing, you'll certainly hear the condemnation and calls for apologies.

Joey the lips · 29-07-2009 9:32am

I would have never guessed at the start of this thread that the IRA would end up in it. Its good to see the usual suspects save the face of the british goverment.

There is more to come on this and we are just being drip fed! Now me personally I would have said as a subject " British govemet apologies for the solder who shot a man becuase he was wearing a GAA gersey!"

But then I would ask why the gun could not now still be determined as surly all the evidence would have been stored on this, If the gun is determined then the shooter could be determined then a conviction could be made. But then again an apology is worth more!" It also give people a chance to change the subject

gurramok · 29-07-2009 9:46am

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Has anyone been convicted of murder in this event??

What "murders" should they apologise for in 'Derry and Ballymurphy.?

Seems to be a lot of one sided debate in this thread.

Do you know anything about NI deaths(unarmed innocents) at the hands of the security forces?

Maybe you are too young to remember, here's one murder where accountability is needed for closure. http://www.crossexaminer.co.uk/archives/2028

Its just one of many including those in Derry and Belfast where there was no acknowledgement of wrongdoing by the professional soldiers of the British Army who after all are supposed to have the 'moral upper ground'.

Fratton Fred · 29-07-2009 9:52am

dresden8 wrote: »

Yes, normally guns are kept cleared and safe unless under attack.

Somebody either fncked up large scale or they intended to kill him.

There is no middle ground.

On the assumption that Aiden was not in the IRA, I find it hard to believe that a British soldier would kill him for no apparant reason. my guess is that there was a serious **** up, a negligent Discharge or something like that and it was covered up to save the soldiers arse.

Exile 1798 wrote: »

It wasnt an apology.

It was an expression of regret. Two very different things.

yeah, that was kind of my point. An apology would be an admission of guilt which would prejudice any further investigation and possible compensation claims.

Joey the lips · 29-07-2009 9:59am

Fratton Fred wrote: »

On the assumption that Aiden was not in the IRA, I find it hard to believe that a British soldier would kill him for no apparant reason. my guess is that there was a serious **** up, a negligent Discharge or something like that and it was covered up to save the soldiers arse.
quote]

With respect the fact that you keep mentioning the IRA is affiring guilt by association.

Folks the IRA had nothing got to do with this. It was a murder plane and simple and the british govt if was the Iranian govt would be condemed by the internatioal govt for not acting and investigating this properly.

I can just see it know. "In Iran today an accidental miss fire of a gun lead to a bullet bouncing of the ground and striking an innocent bystander who was wearing an america football gersey"

Yes! It would be seen as innocent i am sure of it.... Jesus folks! a little logic on this one!

Instant Karma · 29-07-2009 10:31am

Fratton Fred wrote: »

On the assumption that Aiden was not in the IRA, I find it hard to believe that a British soldier would kill him for no apparant reason.

Not sure why you would find it so hard to believe Fred, since soldiery began it has attracted a certain element who, lets be honest about it, enjoy killing.

Fratton Fred · 29-07-2009 10:52am

The Army claim it was an accident, the family claim it was cold blooded murder. I was guess the truth is somewhere in between.

if a soldier was trying to kill Aidan, firing one shot off the ground from a heavy machine gun 300 yards away is not a very good way of doing it.

FlutterinBantam · 29-07-2009 10:55am

gurramok wrote: »

Do you know anything about NI deaths(unarmed innocents) at the hands of the security forces?

Maybe you are too young to remember, here's one murder where accountability is needed for closure. http://www.crossexaminer.co.uk/archives/2028

Its just one of many including those in Derry and Belfast where there was no acknowledgement of wrongdoing by the professional soldiers of the British Army who after all are supposed to have the 'moral upper ground'.

Would question the logic of that statement in view of the fact that "the opposition" seemed to have little or no access to "moral high ground" as you refer to it as.
They seemed to think that blowing away innocent civilians was part of the "war".
Now I realise we are discussing a particular event here and what happened was wrong, but one can't isolate events like this without looking at the total context and events of the period and the septic mindset which was generated by both sides.

Apologists for terror groups always love to play the high moral ground card when it suits them, but discerning people easily see through that bluff and bluster.

"UK govt regret at McAnespie killing"

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